Hi All,

Just wondering what you would do.  I have a friend on Facebook, she doesn't know I'm transgender and recently she liked another person's thread about how Caitlyn Jenner isn't a real hero and didn't deserve her award.  The thread was what you would expect, lots of "experts" making ignorant remarks but really got me was my friend responded that Bruce Jenner will never be a woman and is a parody of a <Not allowed >up media.  I thought of all people she would understand, but her bitterness seemed so distant from the person I thought I knew.

I made one comment in the thread basically saying she may not be a hero to you but she definitely a role model to all those transgendered youth that are struggling to find hope.  My friend's response "but not a woman"

I'll probably just pass on anymore comments.  If I object too much I'll probably make people suspicious.

The Caitlyn Jenner story has been one big dyphoric episode for me.  Comments keep flying out of everywhere.  Often very negative comments from the least expected places.  I think I need to talk to my therapist.

Take care all,
Paige

Mod Edit- Profanity is not allowed even if it's bleeped out it's still against TOS.

I've unfriended people over the last two months due to all this Jenner stuff. I figure if that is their opinion on it, then why would they want to be friends with one. And everyone on my FB knows I'm trans, but some were still callous enough to share that crap, so I don't need friends like that.

If you don't want to unfriend them, you can just block them from showing up on your news feed.  Sometimes just stepping away from negative comments and people is a needed for our own health.

Quote from: marsh monster on July 19, 2015, 04:54:09 PM
I've unfriended people over the last two months due to all this Jenner stuff. I figure if that is their opinion on it, then why would they want to be friends with one. And everyone on my FB knows I'm trans, but some were still callous enough to share that crap, so I don't need friends like that.

The weird thing is 99% of the time she's posting inspirational hippy yoga peace love stuff.  This came right out of the blue.   I may unfriend her but that might draw attention.

Quote from: jessical on July 19, 2015, 04:58:48 PM
If you don't want to unfriend them, you can just block them from showing up on your news feed.  Sometimes just stepping away from negative comments and people is a needed for our own health.

Your probably right I should just turn her off and let it go.  I really shouldn't dwell on this negative stuff.

Thanks both of you for the advice.
Paige

Quote from: jessical on July 19, 2015, 04:58:48 PM
If you don't want to unfriend them, you can just block them from showing up on your news feed.  Sometimes just stepping away from negative comments and people is a needed for our own health.

Yes, thats why, I find life easier if i focus on none trans relaed issues in my life for a WHILE. were more then trans and we should take reguler breaks to remind us of that.

and maybe it might be an idea, to respond to, "still not a woman" with, it seams as far as the rest of the world is concerned, thats up for debate.

but, their are people that like to be part of the crowd, making their choices based on a majority vote.

I'd agree that usually its best to keep some distance if its felt people cannot be changed...

sometimes cis people cannot relate, and see it from their point of view...
assuming people imagine things instead of being accepting...


many people now say being transgender has biological connections, to do with brain development before birth.
So its nobodys fault, neither the transgender persons nor their parents upbringing or whatever.
People are born with all kinds of birth condition, and other people are called to help.
It should all be dealt with in a spirit of love imo.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,180045.msg1658077.html#msg1658077

Some people say they will be like their male/female twin, with the same sense of humour...

This is a resource with a very emotional description of an accepting parent, talking about restraints some people might have:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,190486.msg1697083.html#msg1697083

Its written from a cis parent, so some points of view might be better understandable.
Its up to you if you want to show the unicorn website... you know them best...

Don't get upset... I'd say try to remain calm, keep a loving attitude, and watch for yourself...


hugs

You could send her a private message, and try to educate her on things. Depending on how well she likes to read, a link describing the fetal brain changes in trans people may help. If she's otherwise for tolerance, this outburst of hers may have been just a flash in the pan.

I had similar concerns at work. But when one female colleague started joking about the Adam's apple of a trans woman she'd seen giving a lecture it was a bridge too far. I pointed out that hormone therapy didn't remove the bump and even surgery was dodgy. That didn't "give me away" as trans but it did put her in her place. She was very supportive of me when I came out about six months later.

Some people say ignorant things because they are ignorant not hateful...how are they going to get over their ignorance if they aren't educated?

I don't know when you plan on transitioning and coming out to the world at large but unless you want her reaction to you to be the same you might think about ways to reeducate her. Standing up for trans people is not the same as saying "I'm trans" just like standing up for racial minorities, homeless people, people with disabilities, gay people is not the same as saying "I am those people". It is being an ally and a supporter and a compassionate human being.

Among my friends and other acquantances there were people who made a lot of fun about Caitlyn Jenner.

Then I came out.

Then there was silence.

There were a few people who said nasty things but they were quickly shut down.

The thing is the general gist I got was that people stop and think when it's someone they know. Particularly if it's someone they respect, as it is in my case.

However of late I've notice the hate on cait has been turned up to 11.

People only resort to hate from a space of powerlessness. Perhaps, the fact that Caitlyn has fame and notoriety for something and this girl is just leading a low profile life is the issue combined with the fact that she is ignorant to the issue at large.
Online, it's common that most people say the things they would never have the cajones to say to the person's face.
There's alot of reasons for why she would have. I myself am guilty of having not always exercised integrity through the internet, though I matured.

Quote from: ButterflyVickster on July 19, 2015, 05:15:12 PM
Yes, thats why, I find life easier if i focus on none trans relaed issues in my life for a WHILE. were more then trans and we should take reguler breaks to remind us of that.
and maybe it might be an idea, to respond to, "still not a woman" with, it seams as far as the rest of the world is concerned, thats up for debate.

Thanks Butterfly, yes sometimes I need to remember to back off when it all gets too intense but I do like your rebuttal.  I may try that.

Quote from: Laura_7 on July 19, 2015, 05:42:16 PM
I'd agree that usually its best to keep some distance if its felt people cannot be changed...

sometimes cis people cannot relate, and see it from their point of view...
assuming people imagine things instead of being accepting...


many people now say being transgender has biological connections, to do with brain development before birth.
So its nobodys fault, neither the transgender persons nor their parents upbringing or whatever.
People are born with all kinds of birth condition, and other people are called to help.
It should all be dealt with in a spirit of love imo.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,180045.msg1658077.html#msg1658077

Some people say they will be like their male/female twin, with the same sense of humour...

This is a resource with a very emotional description of an accepting parent, talking about restraints some people might have:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,190486.msg1697083.html#msg1697083

Its written from a cis parent, so some points of view might be better understandable.
Its up to you if you want to show the unicorn website... you know them best...

Don't get upset... I'd say try to remain calm, keep a loving attitude, and watch for yourself...
hugs

Thanks for the info Laura.  The Unicorn's Dad was very touching.  I'm not really upset, I'm more shocked that she would make a comment like this.

Quote from: Beth Andrea on July 19, 2015, 05:49:48 PM
You could send her a private message, and try to educate her on things. Depending on how well she likes to read, a link describing the fetal brain changes in trans people may help. If she's otherwise for tolerance, this outburst of hers may have been just a flash in the pan.

Hi Beth, I'm debating sending her a private note. I think I'll think about it a bit.

Quote from: Ms Grace on July 19, 2015, 06:38:47 PM
Some people say ignorant things because they are ignorant not hateful...how are they going to get over their ignorance if they aren't educated?

I don't know when you plan on transitioning and coming out to the world at large but unless you want her reaction to you to be the same you might think about ways to reeducate her. Standing up for trans people is not the same as saying "I'm trans" just like standing up for racial minorities, homeless people, people with disabilities, gay people is not the same as saying "I am those people". It is being an ally and a supporter and a compassionate human being.

Hi Grace,

The transitioning right now is at a standstill.  I don't have a clue what to do anymore but I have been standing up quite a bit for LGBTQ people, especially lately.  A few people I know have made comments to me about it actually.  I'm just not sure if I keep at it, I may be giving myself away. 

Quote from: iKate on July 19, 2015, 07:05:30 PM
Among my friends and other acquantances there were people who made a lot of fun about Caitlyn Jenner.
Then I came out.
Then there was silence.
There were a few people who said nasty things but they were quickly shut down.
The thing is the general gist I got was that people stop and think when it's someone they know. Particularly if it's someone they respect, as it is in my case.

However of late I've notice the hate on cait has been turned up to 11.

Hi Kate, it will be quite interesting to see the reactions of people if and when I come out.  Quite frankly it scares me to death.   And as you said with the "hate on cait" turned to 11, I'm even more terrified.

Quote from: CosmicJoke on July 19, 2015, 10:38:22 PM
People only resort to hate from a space of powerlessness. Perhaps, the fact that Caitlyn has fame and notoriety for something and this girl is just leading a low profile life is the issue combined with the fact that she is ignorant to the issue at large.
Online, it's common that most people say the things they would never have the cajones to say to the person's face.
There's alot of reasons for why she would have. I myself am guilty of having not always exercised integrity through the internet, though I matured.

Maybe she's jealous, I somehow doubt that.   The only thing that seems to make some sense to me is she's one of the feminists that dislikes transgender people.  The whole thing has me puzzled.  Perhaps I'll get the courage to ask her to explain her position.

Thanks everyone for all the comments.
Paige

one thing to remember is its very easy to hate or fear something or someone you don't know, things change a lot when suddenly you do know them.

Plus I sometimes have to stop myself before I react and think about how much I know about a subject before I get mad at someone, Its easy after a while to forget just how much I know about transgender everything that 99% of people have never even heard, for most of them terrible TV is there only source of information a few actual facts often change things.

Serena

Even if it is a fairly simple argument to win (make them contradict themselves with what do you think of chromosome errors, infertility, AIS, uterus, wombs and homology) I'd just unfriend her. Lifes short.

Most cispeople are absolutely 100% ignorant about who and what we are, and how we got here.

With that said, people want to contribute to the conversation and want to be thought of as relevant, so in spite of their ignorance they speak and this bigoted garbage comes out. It is still quite PC to say stuff like that so out it comes, much like the things that were said against certain categories of people in the past that are not said today.

Education erased a lot of that speech and given time I think will eventually erase the ignorant things that are being said about us. I would try to educate people in a non public way, and if that fails block/unfriend them.

I will wade in a little. As Grace said being a supporter of our issues goes beyond waving a rainbow flag, it is educating people and letting them know what being trans* means.

I had two issues at work when I came out. One lab, staffed by women, where having a hard time with me. So I went to that lab and just chatted about anything and everything, within a few days I was getting phone calls from them to join them for a coffee. They no longer have any issues.

In another lab (one in which I actually ran rather than just in the hospital I work in) I heard that I was receiving jokes and comments behind my back by male members of the lab. I went there and had a private talk with all of them. I told them what it was like to grow up in Liverpool as a transgender child, about being raped, about being molested at the all boy school I was forced to go too. I told them the fears I had of coming out, how I thought I would lose my friends, family, job - I told them that in the end it was a choice for me between suicide or transitioning.

I got hugged by each and everyone of them. I heard later that if anyone makes a '->-bleeped-<-' joke in their presence they are really put in their place.

We can educate people. We can stand up for our rights and the rights of our community, our trans*children, the elderly who have hidden for their entire lives.

That Caitlyn had the strength to stand up and make that speech was a remarkable act. Yes she is wealthy, has power and powerful friends. But she also has her fears, her pain, her sorrow. Just like the rest of us.

One of the real amazing things is that people who claim that gender is only XX or XY are the same ones denying evolution and climate change.

I don't want to come over as unsympathetic to all the complexities of life, but sometime I just think one has to nail ones colours to the mast. I know I came out when I was way too young to realise what it would mean, and that probably made the risk easier to take, sometimes ignorance of what could go wrong really is bliss, but at the same time if you are anything like me you would hate to spend one second longer than necessary with people thinking you were male. So in my eyes it if you are trans it simply shouldnt matter what the cost is - I would always just come out with it.

Like I say I really don't want to sound insensitive. I observe that many many folks here do seem to struggle with this, so I guess I'm the one that is/was pretty odd, but I've always found it puzzling, why people take so long to do the inevitable, and start being honest with the world. If it were me I'd just stand up and say "Stuff it I'm trans too... so take it from me your opinions are both ignorant and unwlecome!"

Sure I may have lost a few potential friends over the years by my no nonsense no prisoners approach but actaully I've found that while perhaps one or two may try it on, when you simply throw them to the wolves without a second thought, the rest all see you mean business, and they fall over themselves to back off.

Yes I am pretty hard nosed, possibly even sociopathic, about this issue, but you don't get anywhere in this world without being prepared to show some backbone at times. Thats my thought anyway. I realise I probably just don't understand the complexities but my honest advice to anyone would always be to jump in at the deep end first and then learn to swim jolly fast.

I've had this issue with Facebook as well this week. I'd get so worked up that I couldn't sleep. I was going to just out myself to everyone and say screw it, but I backed off. I did get some positive comments from an aunt and came out to her and her family. As for the rest, I think I'll wait a bit longer. One thing I've done though is to stop following some of my conservative friends. I've been annoyed by things they've posted before, but never to this level. So I've unfriended the most hateful person and ignored the ignorant. Hopefully this works for a bit. We'll see what happens when I come out, but I'm trying to do it deliberately and not out of rage from the stupidity. It's been a trigger happy week.
Deep breaths [emoji18]



Ella

Quote from: Cindy on July 20, 2015, 01:44:14 AM
I will wade in a little. As Grace said being a supporter of our issues goes beyond waving a rainbow flag, it is educating people and letting them know what being trans* means.

We can educate people. We can stand up for our rights and the rights of our community, our trans*children, the elderly who have hidden for their entire lives.

That Caitlyn had the strength to stand up and make that speech was a remarkable act. Yes she is wealthy, has power and powerful friends. But she also has her fears, her pain, her sorrow. Just like the rest of us.

Thanks for the comment Cindy, as it turns out I had a very nice response from a cousin, who read my defense of Caitlyn and transgender kids.  I didn't realize her daughter started a diversity club at school for a friend and wanted to thank me for supporting her daughter's friend and all transgender kids.  I also had a few other friends pop into the thread and give their two cents. 

I guess it goes to show you, that there's a lot of support out there if you can see past the negatives.

Paige

 

Quote from: iKate on July 20, 2015, 11:28:26 AM
One of the real amazing things is that people who claim that gender is only XX or XY are the same ones denying evolution and climate change.

Yes! I've been saying the same thing.

Facebook is sort of this weird in-between of real life and anonymous comment pages.  You say things you might not sat in real life, but there's still that lack of filter.

My cousin railed on the ESPYs for not giving the courage award to Lauren Hill, but that was more pro-Lauren and less Cait hate. But boy did his Facebook friends go into the haterade!