Hello.

So I've currently got another question posted over in the Sexualities forum (thanks to a quick correction by Mariah) regarding my desire to find a comfortable way of having sexual intercourse, and obviously genitals are a part of that. I feel more than a little uneasy about the idea of traditional SRS (for various reasons), so my current plan for my body is to remove my genitals entirely, rather than get them reconstructed. But that seems to be taken as poor planning on my part by the majority of people I talk to about it. So maybe there's something important I'm missing regarding what traditional SRS can achieve?

Is there any significant difference in the sensations felt during sex before and after traditional SRS? As far as I'm aware, most post-op trans women say that the sensations felt are approximately the same - it's just that they're being felt on the "inside" rather than the "outside." Which makes perfect sense to me. The interior of a neo-vagina is just penile skin, so something rubbing against it should feel approximately the same as what an intact penis would feel. Right?

I ask because, for me, currently, being touched in that area of my body is usually mildly to extremely uncomfortable, and even sometimes painful. And I mean physiologically uncomfortable and painful, not just emotionally. It's like a weird internal "itchy" and "raw" feeling, that fills up my body and makes me squirm and cringe. It's not pleasant. So I can only imagine that if I were to get traditional SRS, experiencing penetration with a neo-vagina would be equally uncomfortable. Thus, in my mind, there's no reason why I should want to get traditional SRS, since 1) I would gain no sexual benefit from it, 2) I'm a poor surgical candidate to begin with, and 3) it comes with a host of other complications like a much longer healing period, necessary cleaning, and dilation.

Am I wrong in thinking traditional SRS wouldn't be a good fit for me? Or am I mistaken about how post-operative sensation works? I've discussed this at length already with my PCP and nurse practitioner, but the experience and wisdom of any post-op trans women would be greatly appreciated as well. *bows head*

(I apologize if this post is too inherently sex-related, and thus misplaced. I'm having trouble thinking of what part of post-operative sensation isn't sex-related though, and I've seen post-operative sensation discussed before, so I assume it's okay? I can't currently access the Sexualities forum anyway, so...)

I have no idea who told you the sensations were similar or why, perhaps I'm odd, but I personally think they are completely wrong.

For me the sensations were TOTALLY and I do mean totally different, both on a psychological, and physiological basis.

I'm over 30 years postop (with one update surgery done in 2010 to bring everything up to modern specifications) so admittedly I probably couldn't now tell you what it was like before with any great accuracy - but from what I recall the sensation pre-op centred a lot around the tip of the penis and involved a considerable feeling of swelling and tightness in the shaft.

Postop what I have is a kind of warm excited feeling in the pit of my stomach, an awareness of wetness between the legs (because I do self lube copiously) accompanied by a twitching in the clitoral and labia minora areas.

Penetration is a are rather unique sensation which I think you would have to experience to understand - but the vagina is not as internally sensitive as a penis is there is some sensation but for me, at least, it would be completely and utterly wrong to imagine it was anything like the touching of the penile shaft.

However we are all rather individual I transitioned and had SRS while pretty young, and while my brain had high degrees of neural plasticity, it seems likely therefore that I readily rewired and remapped my internal sensory homunculus in the central sulcus of the primary somatosensory cortex. Sadly I cannot therefore tell you, and neither can anyone else, if your experience will be similar.

Well quite a few people use powerful vibrators to stimulate the whole area... which can make for an experience kind of not related to exact parts and can allow for fantasies.
This can even be done with a partner.

Another possibility is to use kind of a pressing and rubbing motion with the hand...

Another possibility is anal... using small and possibly bent dildos (for that purpose, with a flange or handle so nothing gets lost in it), using enough lube and taking enough time.
There are spots that can be very pleasurable (p-spot).
If the toilet is used beforehand and all is done taking enough time all should be ok.

It might be possible to experience some kind of more female stimulation before srs.
More male motions would be thrusting etc...
more female motions being rubbed... pressed... etc... together with fantasies...

After srs, there might be a few spots being able to be stimulated...
a clit...
a g/p-spot where the gspot is supposed to be, with another neural connection than the clit, and thus a bit different feelings...
and the feeling of being filled...


hugs

Huh. I have no idea who the "most trans women" you've spoken to are, and I certainly would never presume to argue with their experiences, but... it seems to *me* that the majority of stories (on this site at least) include some variation of "I've already forgotten what it was like before."

As for me personally, that's basically true. I vaguely remember what it was like to have a penis, but after 2-3 days my brain remapped itself to match the nerves in their new locations and now everything feels completely different. Rubbing my labia doesn't feel anything like scratching my balls even though that started life as scrotal skin, and touching my clit feels utterly unlike (and about a thousand times more sensitive than) touching the tip of the penis. Similarly, penetration feels not only different, but like something I could never have explained to my pre-op self. I don't have good words for the sensation, but it's something I had no analogue for before I had a vagina.  Essentially, if they'd woken me up in recovery and told me that instead of reshaping my existing parts they'd swapped them for a sci-fi/magic creation that had never been part of me before, I'd believe it based on the way it feels now.

I am not, however, recommending anything one way or the other for your personal choices and body! (Oh, and speaking of possible downsides to GRS, I giggled a little at the "no non-sexual context" bit, because for me at least dilation is about the most unsexy thing you could possibly imagine.)

I havn't O'd yet, think I had op 9 weeks ago, but even on day 3 in hospital my body was totally freaking out, having contractions and stuff, almost orgasming from the packing they put in you. I had to ask the surgeon what was going on "its that different"

So it's 100 times more powerful and full body and you have different types too depending on which bit your using.

I've heard that the original skin they use to line the vagina adapts in the new environment to function more like the mucosal membrane in your mouth due to its new location and the presence of estrogen. By 7 years, each cell should have died and been replaced, so it won't even be close to the same as it was pre-op. The other parts are already similar enough to female anatomy that their reconfiguration, once healed, retains sensation without the same degree of engorgement if that makes any sense. [emoji6]


     Hugs,
- Katie
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Hmmm... Alright. thank you all for your inputs thus far. I guess maybe I did pick up some erroneous ideas about post-op sensitivity then. Or maybe it's just that it really is so different for each person who has SRS that I just happened to read primarily about those women who talked about the similarities in sensation rather than differences.

I have a lot of other discomfort regarding the idea of traditional SRS, but the main thing I keep coming back to is that there's no way to know if the sensations afterwards will actually feel good. It makes sense to me that if someone with healthy and fully functional genitalia can still get an undesirable result, then I'm even more at risk of ending up with something undesirable. And if the sensations I get from a neo-vagina feel just as bad as the ones I get from my genitals now, I won't have any use for it.

It would really suck to go through with with such a long, painful, and arduous process and then find myself left with basically a useless hole in my body that I would need to maintain anyway for fear of complications, you know?

Well to me it sounds a bit like a lot of thinking...
there are many people very satisfied with srs, so it might have some pleasurable points...

would it help you to adress subjects concerning some kind of pleasure in therapy, so you might find a way to try it out a bit and maybe like it more ?
Just with a more relaxed attitude maybe...

And time might heal as well...
for example there were quite a few people starting srs as lesbians, thinking they would not need it for penetrative sex...
and later came to like it...


hugs

I would suggest it is virtually impossible to know until you go!  We are individuals with unique neurophysiology and psychological profiles and our outcomes for surgery will obviously vary.  Most people we hear from are satisfied with their results.  I have concerns for myself about having full GCS/SRS and loss of sensation is a major one.  the needed maintenance is another and one reason I also consider a penectomy and orchiectomy as options.  I would love to hear from anyone who has had those procedures and remains comfortably sensate.  On the thread or by PM as you like.

Your sharing about such intimate details is appreciated.

My sensation is more clitorial than vaginal. I feel extreme sensations when they go down on me, however my other friend tell me she feels sensation for vaginal internally when penetrated. I have almost no depth, all my things happen just outside with the clit.

Quote from: Butterfly on July 29, 2015, 11:23:50 AM
I have a lot of other discomfort regarding the idea of traditional SRS, but the main thing I keep coming back to is that there's no way to know if the sensations afterwards will actually feel good. It makes sense to me that if someone with healthy and fully functional genitalia can still get an undesirable result, then I'm even more at risk of ending up with something undesirable. And if the sensations I get from a neo-vagina feel just as bad as the ones I get from my genitals now, I won't have any use for it.

It would really suck to go through with with such a long, painful, and arduous process and then find myself left with basically a useless hole in my body that I would need to maintain anyway for fear of complications, you know?

With respect yoy simply CAN'T make that aassumption with any degree of certainty until you know why you find the current feeling uncomfortable. It could just be that you brain is already configured for female organs and hence is struggling to make sense of the input - in which reconfiguring will actually you a BIGGER benefit than someone whose genitale feel normal.

I'm not saying that is the case, I'm just saying your logic isnt necessarily correct. Again you make have some nerve damage - but in the reconfiguration those nerves if they are in the penile shaft will probably be removed althogether - that again would fix the issue for you in way that a normal person wouldnt notice.

What I'm saying no - it does NOT follow as you assume - in fact I would say it was more likely that precisely teh reverse will be the case. It may be that SRS is not right for you anyway - but you need a different reason to than that.

The problem with all this logic and reasoning is that you havent yet found out what is causing the existing problem and until you know that you got no chance of being able to assess whether SRS would be the magic fix - or as you seem to want to believe a terrible mistake. From where I sit I'd actually put my money on the oposite of what you currently assume being true, in which case you could be ruling out the very thing that could help. You do need to find out what the problem is first.

I agree with Jenny that without knowing *why* you're so unhappy with the sensory input now, it's hard to speculate whether genital rearrangement would be good/bad/indifferent.

I will add that while the process of GRS was definitely arduous, I'm not sure I'd call it excessively long; it was a week of intense recovery, another month of major upkeep, and then dropped rapidly down to the level of personal hygiene chore that shaving my legs is (a few minutes a couple times a week). Also, my surgeon at least says that at the six-month mark dilation can be discontinued, if a woman is comfortable letting the vagina close up. Which sometimes won't happen, but either way there's zero maintenance requirement past that point unless you want to, well, maintain the vagina.

There's also the option of "no cavity" GRS, which produces a functional vulva and clitoris but no vaginal canal. Recovery is much quicker and involves no vaginal maintenance, obviously. Based on typical healing rates, it seems as though with this method you'd be fully healed and back to normal life within a few weeks. Since you're also very unhappy with your current configuration, this might be a possibility?

Quote from: Jenna Marie on July 29, 2015, 05:57:02 PM

There's also the option of "no cavity" GRS, which produces a functional vulva and clitoris but no vaginal canal. Recovery is much quicker and involves no vaginal maintenance, obviously. Based on typical healing rates, it seems as though with this method you'd be fully healed and back to normal life within a few weeks. Since you're also very unhappy with your current configuration, this might be a possibility?

Well I'd think about it...
there is the possibility to create a cavity in another srs later... but useful material would be discarded in the first time, and maybe later a cavity might be nice to have...

hugs

Quote from: Rejennyrated on July 29, 2015, 05:25:08 AMPenetration is a are rather unique sensation which I think you would have to experience to understand - but the vagina is not as internally sensitive as a penis is there is some sensation but for me, at least, it would be completely and utterly wrong to imagine it was anything like the touching of the penile shaft.

I would second that (in spades!) except that, for me, I am WAY sensitive inside, all the way; more sensitive than when that tissue was external and much more sensitive than cis female. At 41+ years post, the sensitivity has not diminished one iota and I am still a sex maniac at age 66    Wouldn't have it any other way!

Hm. Alright. So I guess, in the end, the real question is whether or not I value pleasurable genital sensations over having genitals that don't require maintenance and upkeep. Because having traditional SRS will definitely take away the second, regardless of whether or not it provides the first. As far as I understand, at least.

I don't think therapy is something that will help me though. My lack of pleasure from genital stimulation is definitely partially psychological, but I think it's mostly just physiological. I just don't get overall very good feelings from there. Regardless of how "good" it feels, there's always been some pain or discomfort for as long as I can remember, and having surgery didn't completely fix that. At this point, I'm doubtful that anything could.

But I suppose I could at least try seeing a doctor again... Although I'm not sure I can afford it right now. The struggles of being a semi-homeless, unemployed, college drop-out stuck in student debt with numerous other medical problems that take precedence over any problems with my junk.

And Jenna Marie... No-cavity SRS is basically what I'm considering right now. Only I wouldn't have a vulva and clitoris constructed, because there would be no point to it for me, since being touched down there isn't something I really enjoy, and I don't care about having a cosmetic resemblance to cisgender women. There's a doctor in Boston, recommended to me by my PCP and nurse practitioner, who supposedly performs genital nullification surgeries. Being able to experience penetration will always be something I really want, but there just seem to be too many potential and definite complications. Nullification seems much safer, and also much less drastic.

I do have another question though. Does having SRS, in general, usually decrease one's physical awareness of their genetalia? Because for me, right now, my genetalia is obnoxiously everpresent - I can't put it out of mind because of how it almost constantly gives me a raw/sore, internally itchy, or generally uncomfortable feeling. Would having SRS be likely to get rid of that sensation? It would be nice to not have a part of my mind constantly focused on my junk at all times...

Butterfly : Well, no-cavity GRS and nullification are different... you're not seeking the no-cavity version, I don't think. With that said, you're absolutely entitled to have your body modified into what's best for you.

As for the last question, yes, most of the time I am completely unaware of my genitalia in the same way cis people describe - like any other body part I notice if there's something going on there (itchy clothes, sweat chafing, etc.) but otherwise don't pay any attention to it unless I'm actively thinking about it. And at this point the maintenance is 15 minutes of dilation every other week, so I don't spend a lot of time actively thinking about it except for fun reasons!

I don't know what it would be like pre op because I was severely dysphoric and never had anything to do with the nether regions. Post op I'd say it's pretty much the same as natal women describe. There's vag orgasms and clitoral...orgasms with the clit are stronger IMO and I can do them on my own. I self lube and can grip a penis --maybe because I do keigels? Orgasms have been from ok to mind blowing, just like cis ladies. With a good surgeon and good outcome, you'd get the same feelings natal women get. Hope that helps


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Butterfly,

I don't know if you are on HRT yet?  I had a very welcome change in my libido and sense of feeling much less "awareness of my genitalia" after HRT kicked in.   My past sex drive while a T based person was very uncomfortably omni present and now much more like most women I know of.

I am on HRT right now, but I haven't noticed much of a change in my sex drive. There's just been a decrease in the number of random erections (can I say that?) that I get throughout the day, and the length of time they last. It's still a problem though because basically any kind of physical contact can make my body physically aroused, which is uncomfortable at best and super awkward at worst. That hasn't changed significantly from being on HRT, as far as I can tell. My friends who I've talked to about it have been understanding, but it's still really annoying, since close physical contact is something I need a lot of. I'm basically always on edge when I cuddle with friends, because... yeah.

Anyway, my omni-awareness of my junk has more to do with the sensations that come from it, regardless of whether or not I'm physically aroused. It just feels weird/bad most of the time. Like something's broken inside. But maybe that's just a trans thing?

(Finally got access to the Internet again, and I just wanted to respond. I don't know why.)

Yes you can say that and I am glad you came back to respond.  Yes I think this is a "trans thing" to feel something is broken or wrong even while we feel arousal and need that physical contact.  This is getting much better for me in that I feel much more of the romantic and personal intimacy that is consistent with being a girl and without mr. boner ruling the show   We are all so different too and that is the joy of diversity.

Quote from: Butterfly on August 04, 2015, 12:59:12 PM
My friends who I've talked to about it have been understanding, but it's still really annoying, since close physical contact is something I need a lot of. I'm basically always on edge when I cuddle with friends, because... yeah.

Anyway, my omni-awareness of my junk has more to do with the sensations that come from it, regardless of whether or not I'm physically aroused. It just feels weird/bad most of the time. Like something's broken inside. But maybe that's just a trans thing?

(Finally got access to the Internet again, and I just wanted to respond. I don't know why.)