I am having a moment. One night, I had a dream about coming out trans to my parents and my dad started to become aggressive. When I woke up then, after breakfast, I discussed with my mom in a hypothetical context, I told her that I wanted to be sure that if I turned out to be trans, they would still love me unconditionally. She agreed, but I stopped when she said "if you were trans, you would've come out by now" and that it's something you are only born with. I am conflicted now, since I hear that everyone on this forum is a woman is a myth. Some think of it more as a preference. How am I going to explain if I want to transition in my coming out that it is a preference in my case? And I'm even pre-therapy. I still don't feel comfortable with coming out before I leave the house (yeah I'm 23, but I'm still a third-class joke; I still depend on my parents for housing and didn't get a job even). Besides the possible shock, how can they possibly support me financially in my goals if I depend on them? I'm only exploring right now.

She probably didn't mean it the way you are taking it. What she said about being born transgender holds merit, as I could say from personal experience that I was. It's only a matter of it being different for each individual when they get to the point of coming out with it or having a term for it.
Her saying that you would have come out by now could've meant that she was either thinking that you actually would or her just literally taking it hypothetically as you posed the question to her.
The conversation you have with her; if you want her answers to make more sense and have certainty should be based on what is factual.
Though, if you aren't comfortable doing it on your own; perhaps tell someone else like a friend. Take smaller risks first, build up your comfort zone.

Exploring is a great place to be!  We who are in or have completed transition don't have all the answers either;-)  When we talk about being born transgender it is often with the understanding that there is biological basis for being trans.  External to our choices or preferences are medical conditions and situations that may predispose us to being trans.  There are many differences for people in when they understood what was going on about gender and accepted that definition for themselves.  I knew as a kid I was unlike the boys I went to school with.  I assumed I would become a girl somehow until puberty crashed that idea.  Many of us here in trans world understood themselves to be transgender very early and some, like me, did not come out until more than 60 yo.  The timing of our understanding and self acceptance can vary by decades as many people feel shame and denial and then repress even thinking about it.  Some of us were just clueless even if the ultimate truth of being transgender took a while to figure out.

Not every one here is dogmatic about their identity with some MtF people considering themselves a girl rather than a woman, like me.  Others have a much more nuanced narrative about their identity with non binary people especially not content to simply find a label.  Some see a spectrum with androgyny in the middle.  Have I always been female?  In a deeply intrinsic way, yes but, I lived as a man for a long time and that included a lifetime of socialization during which I tried to be or act like a man.  Anatomy is not destiny Redhot and please don't forget we have a great community here of people who consider themselves men, women and more!

I think you are smart to be talking with your mom about it and perhaps you and she can explore other hypothetical ideas.

Everybody not CIS is born transgendered but it take some of us longer to figure it out that others. In addition, some of us take longer to admit it to others. I didn't come out as transexual until I was 23 but I knew it at age 13. My reason for not coming out was there was nothing to gain and everything to lose. In the 1960s, there was initially one treatment program in the United States and our family couldn't afford it even if my parents understood the need for treatment. Also at that time treatment was pretty much restricted to adults. Even when I came out, the nearest treatment was almost 400 miles away from home.

You use the word preference and I don't think you understand it. CIS people feel comfortable in their own skin and never have a desire to be anything else. The fact you are transgender, possibly transexual indicates to me that you are not CIS and this isn't a preference for you. Life will never be right if you attempt a CIS lifestyle. Preference implies an option and you don't have an option. You are transgender and that is the only place in the world where you will have long term happiness.

You have your reasons for staying in the shadows and with all the treatment available to day. I don't and may never understand not coming out. It is your decision and not mine and I don't have all the facts so I will not judge you for your decision. I only hope you do have a plan because I know it never goes away and one of the biggest losses in my life is the ten or so years that were somewhat wasted because treatment wasn't possible.

A trans person is born trans. A baby isn't able to articulate its gender though and goes through several years cis gender programming before they're even able to put it into words. Children and adolescents are usually ignored, bullied or ridiculed if they try to come out in their early years so it's no wonder most don't.

Quote from: Ms Grace on July 29, 2015, 09:44:24 PM
A trans person is born trans.

Not that it should change or diminish how we or others view trans people, but not sure we can say with confidence that trans people are born trans. Yes, I'm aware of the research on this subject ('genetic markers', etc), but the sum of this research is speculative with regard to any comprehensive theory on the origins of being trans (or, for that matter, being any gender). This is not just my opinion, but the opinion if many trans-friendly scientists.

Personally speaking, I ultimately don't care how or why I'm trans, as, like most aspects of personality, it feels like a genuine part of my identity, irrespective of how it arose.

Finally a REASONABLE mom on this planet who believes people are BORN transgender. I personally don't believe people choose to be transgender. It's the worst thing to choose to be on this planet specially at this era. (no pun intended) We're all born transgender it's just that we realize it at some later stage in our life.

I apologise if it's very hollow to say, Redhot, but I'm very sorry that you're faced with counteracting this attitude, with explaining nuance to people that I'd guess have only ever heard reductive narratives from cis mass media, and that you have to do all of this while they wield so much power over you in terms of providing resources. I can't imagine the stress of it and hope that taking steps like this means you're increasingly able to explore who you are so that self-understanding aids with empowering you to build a happy life.

In relation to being 'born' transgender, I'm afraid I think humanity hasn't got much of a clue about gender or how it forms. I believe I should very clearly say that I'm only a layperson with a fascination for biology so am probably very wrong about extant information and evidence. I've just tried to read all that I can and am fortunate enough to count very lovely neuroscience and genetics researchers among my social circle, some of whom are trans too. They could just be humouring my silliness or lack relevant specialist skills in the particular fields too but they've said my understanding is valid when they've been kind enough to listen to my rambling.

Ultimately, I would suggest it shouldn't matter and probably doesn't matter in this context – it may not be true of your parents but, in my view, cis people will almost always find a way to invalidate whatever is inconvenient to their understanding of gender and often seem to clad their purely emotional desire to invalidate diversity with a façade of reason after-the-fact.

As I'm sure you know, if somebody tries to come out as a child then they're told they're too young to know, that it's just a phase, that they're confusing masculinity/femininity with manhood/womanhood, that it's really that they aren't straight, that some evidence shows the incongruence often doesn't persist into puberty so that must be true of them, etc. However, if people wait to come out until later, or their identity evolve in a way where they realise being trans describes them in the present, then they're told that they should've always known, that it's too late, that socialisation makes it impossible for them to be valid, that it must be for sexual purposes, that it must just be internalised misogyny, etc. There is no magical age window when cis people will accept.

I apologise if this isn't true of your parents but I think, for me, it's commonly the case that the root consistent thing is that cis people will dismiss and invalidate due to cisnormativity and due to other factors like parents not wanting it to be true since they fear the pain for them and their child from a horrible society.

Flowing from that, if you ever feel comfortable openly discussing it and you feel the above might be the case for your parents then I'd maybe possibly suggest focusing on assuaging those root kneejerk emotions by pointing to the gains for you and the pain of not being able to be honest about yourself. Similarly, if you have access and the energy then maybe use resources like surveys on the effects of familial rejection, mental health effects of being restricted, sexuality in the community, average age when identifying or coming out, average age starting transition, diverse gender descriptors, ways the definition of trans has evolved, etc to try to dispel the idea that there is a particular rigid trans narrative and to show that the traditional narrative is, at least in my view, largely a cis creation and imposition aimed at minimising disruption by assimilating us into dominant concepts.

Of course, this is all easier said than done though and I've no doubt would be very emotionally draining and wearying. Sorry if it's too idealistic and simplistic.

Above all, best wishes and good luck. I hope you don't need the latter and I'm very sorry if the above is just a lot of self-indulgent silliness that doesn't help at all or simply patronises you by stating basic stuffs. Anxiety means I like to cover every teeny thing so nothing is missed, it's not a comment on how I see others and I apologise for you having to deal with it if it has a negative effect.

Well here is a link to a resource:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,180045.msg1658077.html#msg1658077
Some people say they will be like their male/female twin, with the same sense of humour...

Its only displayed in the media (which is changing now) that people knew from early on.
People are individuals, with individual reactions.
The biological connection with being transgender is true.

Imo her reaction is some kind of self soothing, like thinking you would have told already.
If being told about your true feelings they might react understanding.

Well you might continue exploring...

this might help:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,188309.msg1674885.html#msg1674885


hugs

Quote from: Evolving Beauty on July 29, 2015, 11:11:01 PM
Finally a REASONABLE mom on this planet who believes people are BORN transgender. I personally don't believe people choose to be transgender. It's the worst thing to choose to be on this planet specially at this era. (no pun intended) We're all born transgender it's just that we realize it at some later stage in our life.

I agree with this.

However, I believe that people should have the right to change their bodies if they choose to do so. For whatever reason.

Personally, I think some people are born that way or know since they were kids... and some weren't/don't. Maybe there are different causes that all lead to the same result, too; I dunno.

But I firmly believe I was a cis guy once, and then realized I wanted to transition when I was 32. The standard narrative says that everyone was born this way and knew when they were young, and that put me off of believing I could be "really trans," but I transitioned and then had GRS a few years ago so I think it's true after all. Anyway, my point is that if you want or need to transition now, you are just as valid as someone who declared their trans identity when younger. It's your body and your life and you're entitled to do what makes you happiest.

I think that we shouldn't put too much stock into the why and whether we are born this way or not. If it makes one uncomfortable enough in their own body or presentation enough to put all they have at risk to do something about it, then who cares why. We should seek acceptance, but not at the risk of giving someone a reason to doubt whether someone else is trans just because they aren't similar enough in history or experiences.

Just sayin'...