Okay, this is a real-life moral dilemma that happens to a pre-op MTF friend I know when she travels aboard. I would be interested in getting other peoples views on what she should do...

A pre-op MTF is at the airport and has to pass through security to get through to Departures. Her passport has a female name and the female gender marker, though that is actually somewhat irrelevant as they don't generally check passports at security. The question is as follows...

Having triggered the metal detector alarm and been directed to the female security officer to be frisked rather than the male officer (i.e. she is gendered female visually) should she either:

A: Go to the female officer and risk the possibility giving her an "unpleasant" surprise
B: Request to be searched by the male officer

In effect, is it fair on the female security officer unknowingly to be put in a situation like this or should the MTF help out and direct herself to the male officer? Note that the last action may or may not cause some temporary confusion requiring additional explanation to security depending on how quickly they catch on.

Difficult one or a no-brainer?

It would also be great if any others have stories to share on how they handled this type of situation...

I'm directed to and would always go to the female security officer. No brainer!

I have been in this situation twice. First time, I triggered the metal detector (frame) alarm and was pulled aside by female security officer for extra check. The pat down was very gentle and it did not come close to "that" part, so I did not say a thing to her.
The second time was when they had Milimeter wave scanners installed in the Frankfurt airport - apparently the operator visually gendered me female and thus the equipment scanned my body image according to female pattern (which triggered the unavoidable anomaly). Again, I was led aside by female officer. Once I noticed that this time the pat down was more detailed, I silently told her that I am transsexual. She did not understand at first, and asked me "You are... what?" while keeping on with the pat down - then she reached the "anomaly" region and there was that "Ah, I understand now." And then with some amount of humour "So, are You male or female?" I replied that I am "male-to-female transsexual", we both laughted at the situation and she was smiling when we parted. It was very friendly and probably they were instructed about such possibility in their training, but apparently I was the first transgender traveller she had met .

I would advise not to disclose unless You see that You absolutely have to. Besides, I would not be happy with male officer frisking me, because the security stuff is quite thorough with that procedure and they did follow the breast outlines on both occasions, so the male officer might become quite confused once he literally grabs Your breasts, plus, You might not be happy with that either.

Oh, and I dont have female name and gender marker in my papers, but as You correctly noted, they dont look at them, they just gender You visually.

This poll is very tricky. Of course we mtf would prefer a woman do it with us but when they'll have to put hands down there in the intimate parts if pre-op I really dunno how they'll do that, very embarassing & tricky.  I think all the body should be a female officer except the penis a male officer dunno. 

In my country when I had my driving liscense test if you're male they send a male officer and if female a policewoman but with me they were effing confused and sent both. 

I am pre-op MTF with a female name and an F on my drivers license, and I have flown a few times.

On most of those trips I got through getting scanned with no issues. Twice I triggered the "anomaly" detector.

The first time that happened the TSA lady told me that the detector had detected an anomaly in my crotch area so I immediately told her that I am transgender. She got a look of disgust on her face, redirected me back into the scanner, and then proceed to yell "MALE" at the hapless agent running the scan machine loud enough for every one else around to hear.

Needless to say - that was NOT a fun experience.

I found out that there is a little blue TSA card you can print and you can write health reasons that might affect the security search. I printed one of those cards out and wrote TRANSGENDER on it in big block letters.

The next time I went through TSA and stepped into the scanner I held the card up to the TSA guy running the scanner and he said "roger that" and he apparently pushed the right button. Then my boobs got groped by female TSA agent, and I was directed to get a hand swab at the bomb detection thing afterward. I don't know if the extra scrutiny was because of the card or whether it was a random thing.

While the second experience wasn't exemplary it was far better than the first experience.

I would suggest that all trans people traveling by air print out one of those cards before running the TSA gamut and write TRANSGENDER on it.

Since we can't put links in posts here just search for "tsa disability health card" and you'll find the .pdf.

Quote from: Eva Marie on August 04, 2015, 09:33:19 AM
I am pre-op MTF with a female name and an F on my drivers license, and I have flown a few times.

On most of those trips I got through getting scanned with no issues. Twice I triggered the "anomaly" detector.

The first time that happened the TSA lady told me that the detector had detected an anomaly in my crotch area so I immediately told her that I am transgender. She got a look of disgust on her face, redirected me back into the scanner, and then proceed to yell "MALE" at the hapless agent running the scan machine loud enough for every one else around to hear.

Needless to say - that was NOT a fun experience.

I found out that there is a little blue TSA card you can print and you can write health reasons that might affect the security search. I printed one of those cards out and wrote TRANSGENDER on it in big block letters.

The next time I went through TSA and stepped into the scanner I held the card up to the TSA guy running the scanner and he said "roger that" and he apparently pushed the right button. Then my boobs got groped by female TSA agent, and I was directed to get a hand swab at the bomb detection thing afterward. I don't know if the extra scrutiny was because of the card or whether it was a random thing.

While the second experience wasn't exemplary it was far better than the first experience.

I would suggest that all trans people traveling by air print out one of those cards before running the TSA gamut and write TRANSGENDER on it.

Since we can't put links in posts here just search for "tsa disability health card" and you'll find the .pdf.

Oh Eva I'm so sorry for what happened to you. Me too in Thailand when I was returning, (I'm somehow passable) the lady at the counter was calling me MAAM then when saw on my passport started calling me SIR in front of everyone.   

Quote from: Pandora on August 04, 2015, 05:09:28 AM
A pre-op MTF is at the airport and has to pass through security to get through to Departures. Her passport has a female name and the female gender marker,

That describes the last four times I have flown

Quote from: Pandora on August 04, 2015, 05:09:28 AM...though that is actually somewhat irrelevant as they don't generally check passports at security.

They check them here (UK/Northern Europe) at check-in, security and the boarding lounge.

Quote from: Pandora on August 04, 2015, 05:09:28 AM...though Difficult one or a no-brainer?

No brainer. Expect to be treated as female if that is what your paperwork says. Do everything any other woman would do or expect.

Quote from: Eva Marie on August 04, 2015, 09:33:19 AM
The first time that happened the TSA lady told me that the detector had detected an anomaly in my crotch area so I immediately told her that I am transgender. She got a look of disgust on her face, redirected me back into the scanner, and then proceed to yell "MALE" at the hapless agent running the scan machine loud enough for every one else around to hear.

Obviously things vary from place to place, but anyone pulling that stunt in the UK would lose their job, especially if the paperwork said "F". They might even wind up in court on a charge of Transphobia.

I fly regularly in Australia and have never had a problem, but I have a close friend who went into the US and they saw her dilators in her hand luggage and wanted to confiscate them as potential weapons!

I'm fascinated in a perverse way of how they would have been used as weapons 

I'd always prefer a female officer, I would not be comfortable with a man groping me.
Are they so strict that they literally grope the groin area? I've never tried that, I've just gotten light sweeps on my body.

IF worried, maybe the solution would be to tuck well when going through security and loosening up at the bathroom afterwards? I've honestly never thought about the possibility of this being an issue.

Quote from: Cindy on August 04, 2015, 10:27:30 AM
I fly regularly in Australia and have never had a problem, but I have a close friend who went into the US and they saw her dilators in her hand luggage and wanted to confiscate them as potential weapons!

I'm fascinated in a perverse way of how they would have been used as weapons 

AS WEAPONS!!!  OMG this is too much loooooooooooooooooooooooooool. Hey but seriously what should we do? These are clinical objects, how should we do in case this happens?

Quote from: Cindy on August 04, 2015, 10:27:30 AM
I'm fascinated in a perverse way of how they would have been used as weapons 

Maybe she needed one of those Concealed Carry permits that the Yanks go on about? 

Quote from: Evolving Beauty on August 04, 2015, 10:42:00 AM

Quote from: Cindy on August 04, 2015, 10:27:30 AM
I fly regularly in Australia and have never had a problem, but I have a close friend who went into the US and they saw her dilators in her hand luggage and wanted to confiscate them as potential weapons!

I'm fascinated in a perverse way of how they would have been used as weapons 

AS WEAPONS!!!  OMG this is too much loooooooooooooooooooooooooool. Hey but seriously what should we do? These are clinical objects, how should we do in case this happens?

She very calmly explained to the male security officer that they were dilators that she used to keep her vagina open, by this time the guy was a sort of red colour and sweating profoundly and she went on her merry way. Of course many cis females also need to dilate so it would not normally be a problem. I think he was confused as she had her pack of four of different sizes.

The last 2 times I went though Australian customs, I've had a scan and pat down. I'm presenting male and they noticed my breasts. The second time the guy kept asking if I was carrying something around my neck, until he finally realized what was going on. They were polite and professional.

I'm not out, but I found the entire thing quite amusing. There's never anyone there I know so I don't much care what they say, and I don't think there's much else they can do without risking their jobs. I'm more concerned about the USA given the abuse I've heard from there, but nothings ever happened. There's a growing number of countries I won't transit anymore.

Quote from: Eva Marie on August 04, 2015, 09:33:19 AM
I would suggest that all trans people traveling by air print out one of those cards before running the TSA gamut and write TRANSGENDER on it.

Since we can't put links in posts here just search for "tsa disability health card" and you'll find the .pdf.

  Cool!  Thanks so much for mentioning this.  I haven't traveled to the US ever since starting transition and I've been seriously paranoid about the idea.  Anything that I can do to aid my situation when I eventually do go there again is going to bring me great peace of mind.  I wonder if this will work when going through departures screening on the Canadian side of the border?

Quote from: Eva Marie on August 04, 2015, 09:33:19 AM
The next time I went through TSA and stepped into the scanner I held the card up to the TSA guy running the scanner and he said "roger that" and he apparently pushed the right button. Then my boobs got groped by female TSA agent, and I was directed to get a hand swab at the bomb detection thing afterward. I don't know if the extra scrutiny was because of the card or whether it was a random thing.

Maybe they wanted to be sure you weren't using that as a cover to carry a bunch of explosives in your panties

Quote from: Cindy on August 04, 2015, 10:27:30 AM
I'm fascinated in a perverse way of how they would have been used as weapons 

I took some Kobudo lessons a few years ago, where they taught us how to use anything as a weapon, so give me some time and I'll come up with something. But imagine taking a hostage and saying "Turn the plane around or this guy ends up with the nostrils of a gorilla!"

I still haven't been in that situation, but I am a woman, despite having a penis, so it would be really inappropriate for a man to touch me down there. To paraphrase something Buck Angel said years ago: "My penis isn't a man's penis. It's not masculine, it doesn't smell like a guy, it doesn't taste like a guy (so I've been told, I'm not that flexible), it's a girl's penis". The female agent should understand this, she's been trained for it, and shouldn't feel more disgusted or embarrassed about touching my junk than she is about the junk of the 500 other people she felt up that day.

I do have to think how I will handle all of this next year when I fly back to Europe. My ID and passport still have my old name and gender marker, and on top of that I don't look Swedish. That last thing already gave me some problems a few years ago.

On my trip for voice surgery, I flew for the first time in over 5 years so I ran into the x ray scanners for the first time. I am post surgical, present pretty well as female and all my ID matches so I suspect they punched female into the machine BUT it rejected me. My body is slim but I have shoulder that are a bit broad. I am working on taking off the last few pounds and because I gain weight on my tummy, that's were the extra pounds are. I was given a pat down and they requested I open my belt. A female agent touched my tummy and verified it was real. She then went to my back and touched me between my arms and verify I wasn't wearing football pads under my clothes. I was then allowed to go on my way.

Funny thing is on the way back the X ray scanner must have been broken because they ran me through a standard metal detector that I passed through without issues.

As for who pats me down, I don't really care anymore. I think it has to do with the fact I have had so many medical people working on my body mostly undressed that I have lost all modesty and as long as they are professional about it, who cares.

I am MTF and have now changed all of my ID's (Drivers License/Work /Passport/DHS Global Entry) to my new name and gender.  Because of my Global Entry membership, I have a known traveler number that gets me TSA-Pre on all my domestic flights.  My Global Entry account was just recently changed so the last time I flew it was under my old name using my passport for my ID.  Like Eva, I went through the Burbank Airport.  Since I am full time and my license is F I didn't want to actually travel under my old gender.  Going through the TSA-Pre line, the helpful TSA agent looked at my passport, my ticket and me and in a loud voice said have a nice flight SIR.  Now that everything is changed I hope to not have that problem again.  Just in case I did download the form suggested by Eva and printed it out and put it with my license.  You never know when it might be needed.   

Quote from: Jessie Ann on August 04, 2015, 04:13:47 PM
in a loud voice said have a nice flight SIR.

What a bloody a$$h**e!!!  Same like what did that ** of Emirates in Thailand flying to E.U upon seeing my passport

I fly for work and alwys get waived into the check line.

Pre-name and gender marker change: Breast size was 40D and I wore a sports bra.  Twice I got patted down by a guy.  They were both super embarrassed after squeezing my breasts.  One turned red and said I could go, the other got wide eyed and said "Have a good flight mam."

The last three flights were all post name and gender chage.  I got women and the used the back of thir hands over my breasts or used the wand.

Jen

Some helpful links:

https://www.tsa.gov/traveler-information/transgender-travelers
http://www.networkworld.com/article/2227836/microsoft-subnet/if-threatened-with-arrest-when-recording-video-at-tsa-checkpoints---.html

Know your rights.  That is all.