I would like to here peoples opinions on the subject of selfishness regarding the transition of a man or woman to live full time as a woman or man to their Significant Other/Spouse.

Support:

I here quite a bit about SO's/Spouses that find it very selfish to do this to them, and I find this to be the greatest aspect I am currently dealing with in my own relationship.  IE, she tells me that "Your happiness cames at a loss of Mine"


Opinions, Facts, Ramblings, Ect all allowed from both sides of the fence here

Selfish- a concern for one's own self interests.

If you are unhappy, that makes for a bad relationship.

If the only thing you can do to make your life good is to get SRS, you need to do it. If losing what you have would make you more unhappy than continuing as you are, don't do it.

If you can figure out any way to make the two work at the same time, do that.

Many of us wrestle with this. I did too.

The thing is, I AM a woman. I am female. Pretending this isn't the case won't make it go away, NOR prevent allllll the problems which it caused in our marriage. You know what my wife asks me most often?

"Why couldn't you have just done this SOONER?"

Before transition, our "marriage" was 17 years of her resenting me for not being the man I promised I'd be, and me resenting her for expecting me to be someone I couldn't be.

In our case, transition wasn't suddenly deciding to throw away a perfect, heterosexual marriage between a man and a woman. It was finally accepting that it never was, and never WOULD be, a marriage... and had always been, and always would be a nearly platonic relationship of two women living together. So in many ways, my transition didn't "change" our relationship at all. It just ended the delusion that "someday we'll find a way to make this work."

"Selfish" would have been for me to torture her with that false hope for another 17 years, simply because I was too scared to face the consequences of accepting who I was.

~Kate~

Quote from: Kate on November 22, 2007, 12:38:18 PM
Many of us wrestle with this. I did too.

The thing is, I AM a woman. I am female. Pretending this isn't the case won't make it go away, NOR prevent allllll the problems which it caused in our marriage. You know what my wife asks me most often?

"Why couldn't you have just done this SOONER?"

Before transition, our "marriage" was 17 years of her resenting me for not being the man I promised I'd be, and me resenting her for expecting me to be someone I couldn't be.

In our case, transition wasn't suddenly deciding to throw away a perfect, heterosexual marriage between a man and a woman. It was finally accepting that it never was, and never WOULD be, a marriage... and had always been, and always would be a nearly platonic relationship of two women living together. So in many ways, my transition didn't "change" our relationship at all. It just ended the delusion that "someday we'll find a way to make this work."

"Selfish" would have been for me to torture her with that false hope for another 17 years, simply because I was too scared to face the consequences of accepting who I was.

~Kate~

I am in a similar boat that you were in, Kate. Luckily, I am not married with kids. I could just walk out on my current gf but had always been scared of hurting her. She wants to be married and have kids and I know she would make a wonderful mother. My therapist has been very helpful and I finally had the courage to talk to my gf about our future. We both know that our relationship will have to end, that I want to become a girl.

Quote from: Emmalene on November 23, 2007, 01:23:58 PM

Quote from: Kate on November 22, 2007, 12:38:18 PM
Many of us wrestle with this. I did too.

The thing is, I AM a woman. I am female. Pretending this isn't the case won't make it go away, NOR prevent allllll the problems which it caused in our marriage. You know what my wife asks me most often?

"Why couldn't you have just done this SOONER?"

Before transition, our "marriage" was 17 years of her resenting me for not being the man I promised I'd be, and me resenting her for expecting me to be someone I couldn't be.

In our case, transition wasn't suddenly deciding to throw away a perfect, heterosexual marriage between a man and a woman. It was finally accepting that it never was, and never WOULD be, a marriage... and had always been, and always would be a nearly platonic relationship of two women living together. So in many ways, my transition didn't "change" our relationship at all. It just ended the delusion that "someday we'll find a way to make this work."

"Selfish" would have been for me to torture her with that false hope for another 17 years, simply because I was too scared to face the consequences of accepting who I was.

~Kate~

I am in a similar boat that you were in, Kate. Luckily, I am not married with kids. I could just walk out on my current gf but had always been scared of hurting her. She wants to be married and have kids and I know she would make a wonderful mother. My therapist has been very helpful and I finally had the courage to talk to my gf about our future. We both know that our relationship will have to end, that I want to become a girl.

I know how you feel. The person I want to be with currently wants to have kids in the future and if I go ahead with surgery I will lose any hope of having any myself. Its depressing but sometimes I know im doing the right thing for myself in the end.

In our situation, "selfish" does not mean what the dictionary says it means. It isn't really a word at all. It's a club they hit you with, to inflict pain to punish you for daring to be honest about who you are.

If your SO is not happy with the idea of you being "mom" then spare the kids the problem by not having them.  Please.

Many TGs I have known have become wonderful parents, don't deny yourself the one good thing that we really get to do in our lives, which is create and raise decent human beings.

Nothing is cut and dry with children who are in fact, pretty flexible.  But they are always a reflection of the relationship that created them, they never outrun that, so choose wisely. 

The person I'm with now is the reason I don't make any choices in my life yet on how I want to live. It's just that simple. I've been with her for 10 years and I would hate to put her through anything remotely close to what I put up with now being who I am.

Selfish is only worth a damn to someone who knows what they are doing may hurt other people. IMO if some stranger told me I was being selfish for what I was doing I wouldn't care. But if I cared for a person and thought about doing something that I knew in my heart would hurt them, then I wouldn't do it.

I love my SO so much, even though I don't know how she would react to a such a life changing choice as changing my body to look more like who I am, I couldn't do it. I'm sure some day I'll tell her that I have no love for the body I'm in now, but would I change to make myself happy while still in a relationship with her, probably not. I'd rather have the joy of being with her, even through the grief of being who I am.

Selfishness, this is my everyday struggle.
First off like Kate said, I am a woman, I am female.

QuotePretending this isn't the case won't make it go away, NOR prevent allllll the problems in our marriage

But we have had a good marriage, raised 3 kids and now have 4 great grandchildren.

Then this thing called TS crops up.
I told my family and they all said they still love me. (Great)
Then the BUT..... one child thinks I'm demon controlled, another thinks I'm mentally sick and won't allow me to be with his kids without supervision and the 3rd won't even talk to me.  My wife thinks I have been lying to here all our 37 years of marriage just pretending to be a man.

We talked and struggled allot went to counseling. After much hurt and pain she said it was alright to be me. (GREAT)
But then she said how I dress and act and look is my chose. Not to dress as a man is selfish on my part and that she will not live with another women. (but I am)

I love my wife so much and I know how much pain I have caused her. I am still hauted by her eyes so full of hurt.
She has said if I change my body to look more like who I she eccept it and would leave.

At this point I have decided to:
LiningInGrey said,

QuoteI'd rather have the joy of being with her, even through the grief of being who I am.

So I have went back to wearing mostly male clothing and not going out and my relationships with the family have greatly improved.
Am I happy? No.
But do I want to hurt the family that I love? No.
Would it be selfish to change my body, and hurt my family.
I think so, yes.
What will happen to me? .......
At times I am just numb, other times sad.
But when I am with my family, my grandchildren I am very happy.

Jillieann

I think selfishness goes both ways between a trans person and their loved ones.  Is it selfish to ask a trans person to deny their true selves just so others can feel comfortable and fit in with the life and people they've built around themselves?  I think it is so in many instances.  I also think it's hypocritical to expect a trans person to accept others while they continue to deny their trans oriented loved ones.  The others justify their naming the trans person selfish because they think their position is the right one and the trans person is being wrong.

When I transitioned, my relationship with my spouse took a terrible beating.  She lost her husband, plain and simple.  But she would still have lost him had I not done anything about it.

When other people's beliefs and attitudes condemn their trans loved ones, who is hurting whom?  I think the people that hold these beliefs are hurting themselves and blaming others in order to manipulate them into doing what might not be the best thing for themselves, which in my book is the true meaning of selfishness.

hugs & smiles
Emelye

I agree with Emelye who expressed it well.

Quote from: Emelye on December 08, 2007, 10:12:07 AMI also think it's hypocritical to expect a trans person to accept others while they continue to deny their trans oriented loved ones.  The others justify their naming the trans person selfish because they think their position is the right one and the trans person is being wrong.

The opinions stated by LivingInGrey and Jillieann, while I understand where you're coming from and feel compassion for your situation, still disturb me greatly. That's what is demanded of me too, but I cannot do it. I would rather be dead. Maybe LIG and J aren't feeling the intensity of dysphoria that some of us do? Because if I were forced back into the closet, I would go crazy or kill myself. I can't take that much pain. I think of lyrics sung by Melissa Etheridge-- I don't know how you can take it... You must be stronger than me.

Different trans individuals feel different levels of GID, don't they? Or what? I'm not sure how some of us can accept the closet while others have to break out of it or die trying. My family's position is that I can't possibly be feeling such intensity of GID pain, I must be either lying or delusional, and therefore I have a responsibility to get back in the closet. (Too late, I've already transitioned to fulltime.) Of course, they have no way to understand how it feels to be me, do they? So how can they judge how much pain I can take?

I do believe my GID is stong.
As I post else where:

QuoteMost of the time I'm ok with just being me.
I believe that the soul - spirit  (the real me) is what is important not the body which in many cases is flawed, damaged, deformed or just never developed completely.
I work with many people that are mentally and physically handicapped and most of them are beautiful people.
What I'm trying to say is that the body isn't that important to me it's what's inside.

I'm doing ok then ...
I look in the mirror and so dislike the image looking back at me.
go to the bathroom and get upset when I see all the hair and the things between my legs.
I get up and I get dress and I feel unhappy even depressed with the body that I see.
I get ready for bed and again feel so bad and hope at least in my dreams I will have a female body. 

According to my doctor I am healthy.
I have all my limbs, my eyes and ears work and I think have a fairly good brain.

Am I ok?

The body is only a container that holds the real me and I think it looks okay for a male body.
Why can't I just get over it?
What does it real matter how I look or even what I wear?
I'm doing ok then .....
Why?
Why can't I just learn to live with this container? this thing that holds the real me?

But there is more to me than GID.
I have a history with a wife and she has been my best friend of 37 years plus.
I have a great family. And as any loving parent and spouse I would die for them. Maybe I am.
The best way to live in this messed up crazy world is one day at a time.
That is what I try to do.

Maybe one day I will just drive off the road and end all or maybe transition.

But right now I have some beautiful grandchildren to enjoy and watch grow up.
And a loving wife who is still with me after all of the pain and hurt I have caused her just because I am TG.
Jillieann



Posted on: December 08, 2007, 10:36:24 PM

---

So maybe I am say that my families happiness does come at the lose of mine.
Love is crazy.

If I tried to force myself to live male, it would destroy me. I know I sound like a big-ol' drama queen saying this. But I've been through some extremely dark and scary places on my journey as a result of imposed maleness and know for sure that to survive I have no choice but to be true to who I am. If I were forced into maleness, whatever was left from that would be of no benefit to my family. They would not be able to stand having me around. Most likely I would be dead. So it's no use pretending anyway.

"Maybe one day I will just drive off the road and end all"

If you love your kids and grandkids, then don't put this page in their life history.  Its hard, almost impossible for people to ever get over that, or to stop worrying that it might run in the family.

Quote from: Cire on November 22, 2007, 11:54:37 AM
Selfish- a concern for one's own self interests.

If you are unhappy, that makes for a bad relationship.

If the only thing you can do to make your life good is to get SRS, you need to do it. If losing what you have would make you more unhappy than continuing as you are, don't do it.

If you can figure out any way to make the two work at the same time, do that.

How shallow is that Cire......to think a gender change is all about just altering your genitalia. It's certainly not just about that at all and is far more complexed. I can never understand the narrow miinded view some people have that the only thing a gender change consists of is having your nuts chopped......I've seen plenty of folk with their bits chopped off and re-designed but they don't look anything like women.....you could have SRS and still live as a bloke if you wanted to do that?

But I do agree with your anology regarding those who undertook marriage and possibly brought children into this world.....and I would say stay as they are of they can.....if they can't they could loose their spouse and family in the process......but the one's who manage to keep both are very lucky indeed...

Quote from: Berliegh on December 09, 2007, 07:26:09 AM
But I do agree with your anology regarding those who undertook marriage and possibly brought children into this world.....and I would say stay as they are of they can...

SOOOO many people have told me that I'm being terribly selfish, NOT for transitioning, but rather for staying with my wife and "holding her back" from the life she needs. They actually consider my transitioning as "the right thing to do," as it's finally dealing with the problem that's plagued us throughout our marriage. BUT, they feel that I've only gone half-way, and that I'm staying with her now only out of selfish convenience and insecurity, preventing her from moving on and finding a real husband and sex life.

~Kate~

Awesome, my topic has exploded!!!!

Kate I have to say:

Even though I am being told that I am selfish for wanting/needing to transition, I feel that my personal source of selfishness, Is that I am holding my SO back from that life.


My SO cannot understand the feeling I have regarding my GID, she just does not believe that I am in pain over this, I have a amazing way to repress sadness, mostly I used weed for a long time, but now I am sober and It is just starting to poke its ugly little head around in my life and this time I want to do the right thing and fix it.  I dont cry easily, and try to stay as calm as possible while my SO screams I am ruining her dreams/telling me to go be a freak/wierdo in a skirt.

I feel I need to let her go, so she can have the right life for herslef.  But it is really hard when you love someone alot, and they tell you that they truly love you, in addition to being my only friend in this life because I have a hard time socializing with people, which I blame on reppressing my true self. (maybe not the truth but that answer works for me)

I'm really not one for the concept of 'selfishness'.
There are way too many people (especially women) who live their lives for others and don't do for themselves because they want to do 'the right thing'.
It's good to care for others, but don't neglect yourself in the process. I would think the average spouse would rather have his/her husband/wife transition than live with a ghost.

QuoteI would think the average spouse would rather have his/her husband/wife transition than live with a ghost.

Nero I respectfully disagree with that statement.
Just look at how many SO's stay through the whole process of transitioning.
I believe from what I have read, but I'm not sure of, that most of them leave very early in the transition.

Jillieann

Posted on: December 10, 2007, 06:35:58 PM

---

I just wonder who or whom is being selfish?
Maybe both parties?

Of course it is selfish to go after what you want, especially when it affects others.  My SO who has also been my best friend for 32 years understands this completely.  My impending transition is the most selfish thing I will ever do.  Me hiding my true feelings for all those years was also incredibly selfish. I thought I was doing the right thing at the time.

My SO lives in constant fear of her feelings towards me.  She believes she can only go so far down this road.  She is still hanging in there though because she really does understand how big a deal this truly is and that there may be a way for us to survive this together.

I can only encourage her to be selfish also and take what she can from this new era in our lives.

Jenny