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Why so Few Young MTF's?

Started by Jasper93, August 22, 2015, 03:13:07 AM

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LizK

Great Discussion

I don't know about those among us over 50 who have tried to transition before when they were younger. I tried at 19 to transition but in Dunedin New Zealand in the early 80's it was hardly Gay tolerant let alone trans friendly...Didn't even know the word for it. I knew one thing and one thing only...I was a girl not a guy and needed to find a fix. With no resources and nowhere to turn I headed for Australia because I knew I would have a far better chance of getting help...it was too late for me I already had a monkey on my back and until it was gone then transition was not even a consideration.

Sarah T
Transition Begun 25 September 2015
HRT since 17 May 2016,
Fulltime from 8 March 2017,
GCS 4 December 2018
Voice Surgery 01 February 2019
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jackeTT

I'm 21 and on the verge of transitioning, still unsure if I want to. For myself I feel female in every way and would give anything in the world to be able to just flick a switch and become 100% female. The thing that is stopping me for wanting to transition currently is that I know how hard it will be, potentially losing friends I've known for half my life, being open to facing discrimination (especially at an age where I'm looking to start a career), and worrying about not being able to fit in at an age where I'm in the prime of my life.

Also knowing that some people in situations similar to myself may also have depression or social anxiety which stops them from coming out as their true self or are afraid of rejection from family members/friends/doctors. One of my biggest fears is going to a gender therapist and them telling me they don't believe me and not letting me start HRT or something of the like.

Just thought I'd share my 2 cents.
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iKate

Quote from: jackeTT on August 24, 2015, 09:47:29 AM
I'm 21 and on the verge of transitioning, still unsure if I want to. For myself I feel female in every way and would give anything in the world to be able to just flick a switch and become 100% female. The thing that is stopping me for wanting to transition currently is that I know how hard it will be, potentially losing friends I've known for half my life, being open to facing discrimination (especially at an age where I'm looking to start a career), and worrying about not being able to fit in at an age where I'm in the prime of my life.

Also knowing that some people in situations similar to myself may also have depression or social anxiety which stops them from coming out as their true self or are afraid of rejection from family members/friends/doctors. One of my biggest fears is going to a gender therapist and them telling me they don't believe me and not letting me start HRT or something of the like.

Just thought I'd share my 2 cents.

This is something I faced for a long time too.

Understand, that I am a very logical person. I don't let emotion influence my decisions as much, which is surprising given that I am a very emotional person.

I always thought that I would never look like a woman, I would never be able to give birth, I would never be able to shake off the accident of my birth. I would never have children if I transitioned. So I tried to be a married man and have children and enjoy that part of my life. I got the kids I wanted but sadly, I still could not live as him.

Every dream was an instant switch from male to female. Magic wands, magic potions, scientific contraptions, surgeries. All in my mind. I never would be satisfied with simple gender transition as we know it today, and I probably never will be.

But make no mistake this is the best way to manage my gender dysphoria so life is somewhat livable now.
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eggy_nog

I'm 21 and I'm a MtF trans woman :))






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Isabelle

Quote from: iKate on August 24, 2015, 07:42:17 AM
Agreed.

The problem with the primary/secondary theory is that those who use it will never view us as women. They either view us as straight men with a fetish or gay men who want to pretend to be women so they can attract men.

There are also numerous social factors that determine the age at which someone transitions, such as abusive parents and local culture.

They also base it on sexual orientation which doesn't make sense because there are young/teen trans people who are homosexual and in same gender relations.

So in other words, don't buy it. It's meant to divide and prop up egos as well as keep the status quo by justifying more gatekeeping which kind of gives you a clue as to why people bring it up.

Your claim about sexual orientation being a factor isn't correct, that's more related to the fairly thoroughly debunked theory of autogynephillia. Primary/Secondary is a diagnostic term. Its about chronology of symptoms. That's all. It has no social meaning. Much like when people misuse the term "true transsexual", its merely an older scientific/diagnostic term. it doesn't mean anyone is more or less trans* than anyone else, it was used to describe the intensity of symptoms in relation to the desire for surgery. Primaries can and do transition late, and secondaries can and do transition early. Again, its a medical term about symptoms, that's all. Its not about "gate keeping" or any other such nonsense. Arguments against diagnostic terminology are sometimes valid but, more often than not, they're politically motivated. I, personally, don't buy into a lot of transgenderist rhetoric.
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Juniper

Quote from: FreyasRedemption on August 22, 2015, 01:20:08 PM
Look no further than me. I'm 16 and I go to this site at least twice a day.

I'm 16 as well. However, I've been spending a good amount of time on here since I've had nothing else to do haha, but I enjoy it. People are nice, school is not. Brings a balance.
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kelly_aus

Quote from: Isabelle on August 24, 2015, 09:45:25 PM
Your claim about sexual orientation being a factor isn't correct, that's more related to the fairly thoroughly debunked theory of autogynephillia. Primary/Secondary is a diagnostic term. Its about chronology of symptoms. That's all. It has no social meaning. Much like when people misuse the term "true transsexual", its merely an older scientific/diagnostic term. it doesn't mean anyone is more or less trans* than anyone else, it was used to describe the intensity of symptoms in relation to the desire for surgery. Primaries can and do transition late, and secondaries can and do transition early. Again, its a medical term about symptoms, that's all. Its not about "gate keeping" or any other such nonsense. Arguments against diagnostic terminology are sometimes valid but, more often than not, they're politically motivated. I, personally, don't buy into a lot of transgenderist rhetoric.

A diagnostic description according to whom? A quick check of the appropriate professional publications shows no accepted current reference to this concept. My therapist, a member of WPATH and ANZPATH, also dismisses this concept as outdated thinking..
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Isabelle

According to the person whom's website I linked to (a trans* person who happens to be a psychologist) Anyway, I don't want the thread to get locked so, that's all I'm going to say.
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Ange

Quote from: Isabelle on August 24, 2015, 09:45:25 PMI, personally, don't buy into a lot of transgenderist rhetoric.

I don't either. In fact it annoys me (a lot) how some trans activists try to harm the progress of science in the name of a greater political cause. And sometimes succeed.

But the whole primary/secondary is just scientifically plain wrong. And it's damaging for our understanding of how the transidentity works. It was already demonstrated that the reality is a lot more complex than this theory.

Now I am not saying that there can't be two different kind of ->-bleeped-<-, as there are strong leads that that could be the case. But if there are two different kind, this is unlikely to be as simple as primary/secondary and is more likely to do with body dysphoria vs gender dysphoria and the way they interact.

I'll write a thread about it for us to discuss it, since this is obviously not the place.



Admin Edit: Removed foul language per TOS #11
Tell me what your definition of "man" and "woman" is, I'll tell you which I am. Not the other way around.
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iKate


Quote from: Isabelle on August 25, 2015, 01:21:40 AM
According to the person whom's website I linked to (a trans* person who happens to be a psychologist) Anyway, I don't want the thread to get locked so, that's all I'm going to say.

Ray Blanchard was a psychologist too. Credentials really don't mean much, there are quacks everywhere.

There are reasons people go through the motions in life then suddenly realize they have been living a lie. Lynn Conway was married with children pre transition and is one of the most respected trans people today, and had lived stealth for years and is now remarried to a man. She doesn't fit either the mold of "primary" or "secondary." Many others don't.
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Devlyn

Back on topic. please. ->-bleeped-<- discussions are not allowed on the site. Thank you.

Hugs, Devlyn
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stephaniec

could be just peer pressure. young are a lot more vulnerable  to how they are perceived and accepted. If they can do stealth why wouldn't they . their bodies change better so they can blend. Plus it is dangerous to be young and trans.
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Blackierobinson

ive seen a lot on ->-bleeped-<-
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Riley Skye

I'm 24 and been transitioning since 21, I'm friends with a few girls my age, go to a trans support group

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

Love and peace are eternal
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Lebedinaja

Quote from: stephaniec on August 25, 2015, 11:21:54 AM
could be just peer pressure. young are a lot more vulnerable  to how they are perceived and accepted. If they can do stealth why wouldn't they . their bodies change better so they can blend. Plus it is dangerous to be young and trans.

depending on where you live and where you walk around, too dangerous sometimes.
I personally have never seen a Transperson here, even Gay people are afraid and dont go out late because big-boss-macho-boys need to be homophob and beat up everything that is male and looks feminine.
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Haradonia

Hi!! Im 18 here mtf, just started transition, and going back to college in a couple days from now! Im so worried, but glad Im being myself. I didn't know i was transgender until a couple months ago. Anyone have any advice? I go to a conservative college, so I have not that much help from school, but trying my best, and pretty sure Im one of the first transgender people who went to my college. Its an urban college though.
I don't think I look like a boy too much really, I just have short hair right now and people knew me before . But I'm worried people would see me as a boy still and get discriminated.. I just wish this process was easier!

Any help and support would be much appreciated, I would attach a photo but don't know how to.
Any advice about going back to the same college as trans would be much appreciated! My overall goal is to feel equal and normal.
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Tessa James

Quote from: Haradonia on August 28, 2015, 11:47:27 AM
Any help and support would be much appreciated, I would attach a photo but don't know how to.
Any advice about going back to the same college as trans would be much appreciated!

You are not able to attach your picture until you have 15 or more posts here. 

Good for you for staying in college.  If you're transitioning it may be helpful to speak one to one with your faculty members and explain your situation.  If they are at all compassionate and fair they will want to facilitate your education and may help ensure the classroom atmosphere is safe and reasonable for you.  If you let them know your preferred name and gender pronouns they may even become your allies.  In most urban centers there are LGBT support groups that may help you.

Equality is your right

Back to the original post.  I have met a number of teenaged transitioners and they seem far less interested in the labels and organized trans groups vs just hanging with their peers and blending in.
Open, out and evolving queer trans person forever with HRT support since March 13, 2013
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Devlyn

Quote from: Haradonia on August 28, 2015, 11:47:27 AM
Hi!! Im 18 here mtf, just started transition, and going back to college in a couple days from now! Im so worried, but glad Im being myself. I didn't know i was transgender until a couple months ago. Anyone have any advice? I go to a conservative college, so I have not that much help from school, but trying my best, and pretty sure Im one of the first transgender people who went to my college. Its an urban college though.
I don't think I look like a boy too much really, I just have short hair right now and people knew me before . But I'm worried people would see me as a boy still and get discriminated.. I just wish this process was easier!

Any help and support would be much appreciated, I would attach a photo but don't know how to.
Any advice about going back to the same college as trans would be much appreciated! My overall goal is to feel equal and normal.

Avatar pictures require fifteen posts, posting a picture in a thread can be done by any member at any time. You need to use an image hosting site, they are free and easy to use. I use Photobucket, they give you the code to post. It looks like this (asterisks added by me to break the code):

[IMG***]http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y537/DevlynMarie/Hull%20gut%20sun%20set-2_zpspojm5xdn.jpg[/img]

Take out the asterisks and voila! Hull Gut sunset.

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HughE

Quote from: Jasper93 on August 22, 2015, 03:13:07 AM
And that's the thing -- attending the GLBT-receptive powerhouse that I do, one would think that I'd run into a lot of trans girls, especially considering that I live in their learning community designed specifically for transgender/gender-queer people. But I'm the only mtf here that I've heard about in the learning community, and one of three that I've heard about across campus (47k people). For every trans woman, there seems to be three or so trans men. For every trans man, there's like 2 gender-queer people.

Why in the world are there so few trans women, pretty much anywhere, who are in their late-teens early-20s??? I encounter many who started in their 40s, but I'm feeling pretty lonely unless I'm searching pretty hardcore on Tumblr.
At least part of the reason has got to be because of an artificial estrogen called DES, that was at one time the standard treatment in pregnancies where the mother was thought to be at risk of having a miscarriage or giving birth prematurely. During its heyday in the 1950s and 60s, some doctors were giving it to all their pregnant patients, and it was even being added to pregnancy vitamins. Between 1940 and about 1980 (by which time it had largely been withdrawn from use), DES was used in an estimated 4.8 million pregnancies within the US, and (I've been told) a roughly equal number of pregnancies elsewhere. So, roughly 10 million pregnancies in total, most of which resulted in live births, and half of which presumably involved genetically male babies.

Under the standard dosing schedule, the doses used were absolutely colossal, the cumulative dose over the course of a typical DES pregnancy being about 11 grams (roughly the same amount of artificial estrogen as is contained in half a million birth control pills), with by far the heaviest exposure occurring during the second half of the pregnancy (which is when the brain development responsible for gender identity later in life is thought to take place).

While the "DES daughters" who were exposed to this treatment in the womb are acknowledged to have abnormalities of their internal reproductive organs, and high rates of infertility and several kinds of cancer, the official line has always been that the "DES sons" came through their exposure virtually unscathed - no increased risk of cancer, infertility or anything else, apart from a modestly higher rate of "noncancerous epididymal cysts". However, from what I've seen, the male assigned people who were exposed to DES were in fact profoundly affected by their exposure. It's just that what happened to them is so awful that nobody wants to admit to it, and the medical and pharmaceutical industry people who know about it have all closed ranks to keep the public in the dark about it.

Basically, in a male fetus, DES causes whatever development is taking place during the time the exposure is going on, to take place as female instead of male. Because the exposure during the first trimester was usually relatively light, most of those exposed have come out with male genitals (albeit often with intersex-related abnormalities such as undescended testes or hypospadias). Instead, their brain development has been the main thing affected. The usual outcome seems to be that you end up with someone who looks male but whose brain has predominantly developed as female. Not surprisingly, the people who've had this happen to them often end up with a strong inner sense of being a woman, despite having a male body.

A fair number of those I've chatted to have physical intersex-related abnormalities too, and it seems to be very common for those of us who've had these hormone exposures to end up with chronically abnormal hormones later in life. But the main thing for most of us seems to be that it's messed up our gender identity (in my case, it's kind of a mixture of male and female rather than being fully female). Considering how widely it was used, and that not many people know what drugs they were exposed to before birth, I think DES could well be the main cause of MTF transsexuality in the over 40s age group.
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Isabelle

Fascinating, is there much research published on this? I'd love to learn more
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