What would be the consequences for a transitioned pre-op ->-bleeped-<- trying to board a plane while carrying ID that contradicts your gender? Does the TSA have a policy on this?

The NCTE warns:

QuoteInability to change the outdated gender marker on your official ID should not necessarily stop you from flying. Many trans people choose to fly regardless of this kind of ID issues and security people probably may not pay close attention to the gender marker. But be careful, a perceived discrepancy may cause you to be outed to or by airport personnel, and that can cause loss of privacy, discrimination and possibly even trigger hate violence.

<i>urk.</i>

Pre-op, you'd be considered a very very weird male
and depending on the country, would or would not
make a diff.

Post op, still a very weird male for them
until you get the passport changed (hopefully
you've got a transit passport in your new gender
but its not always possible),
until they stripsearch you... Then, Oh my, wouldn't
want to be in some countries in the world!!

I have not had a problem with the gender marker.  I had buckets of trouble when I still had a male name.

I've flown twice in the last 6 months as a pre-op, obviously dressed as female (I wore a skirt once), but I still had my male name and gender marker on my ID.  I had no problems whatsoever.  The last time, one of the security guys remarked after I walked through the metal detector "why did your parents call you xxxxxxx?".  I assumed he knew I was trans and I just laughed and nudged him on the shoulder.  I interpreted it as friendly.  This was in the continental US anyways.

Go for it, I didn't have any problems.

Are you thinking of flying or why are you asking?

I'm asking because I plan to travel to Canada next year for my SRS (if, that is, I succeed in finding a job soon). And because once I roomed at an LGBT conference with a gorgeous young trans lady who was worried that she would get busted by the TSA when she flew back, she kept exclaiming "I'm not able to look like a boy!" She really couldn't pass for male at all. I never found out if she made it home with no problems.

The State Department has decided to give me attitude. They sent me my new passport with my pretty face and my new legal girlname... and M instead of the F I had applied for. They also would not tell me any reason why they didn't honor the letter from my doctor. I got a regular 10-year passport instead of the 1-year gender-changed version for pre-ops. So I'm stuck with that until after I manage to get SRS, whenever that will be. And it's getting harder for me to pass as male any more too. Not that I would even bother trying.

Quote from: Hypatia on December 11, 2007, 08:19:27 PM
I'm asking because I plan to travel to Canada next year for my SRS (if, that is, I succeed in finding a job soon). And because once I roomed at an LGBT conference with a gorgeous young trans lady who was worried that she would get busted by the TSA when she flew back, she kept exclaiming "I'm not able to look like a boy!" She really couldn't pass for male at all. I never found out if she made it home with no problems.

The State Department has decided to give me attitude. They sent me my new passport with my pretty face and my new legal girlname... and M instead of the F I had applied for. They also would not tell me any reason why they didn't honor the letter from my doctor. I got a regular 10-year passport instead of the 1-year gender-changed version for pre-ops. So I'm stuck with that until after I manage to get SRS, whenever that will be. And it's getting harder for me to pass as male any more too. Not that I would even bother trying.

Hello, Hypatia,

I have flown from the U.S. (Washington DC area) to Toronto several times and no one ever gave me a hard time.

I had a passport done when I was still living in my past life and it has my pic from back then, the "M" gender marker, and the name on my birth certificate from Pennsylvania.

Since then I changed my name and sent my passport back for name change and *gender marker change* as my court order did indeed change my gender marker.

I got my passport back with my changed name inside of the back cover and a letter stating that they cannot change the gender without a letter from the GR surgeon.

I'll never forget the first time I was flying back from Canada.  Two TSA officers were "tossing" my luggage.  The male officer asked me whose brassieres and panties were in my suitcase.  I told him that they were mine and that I am transsexual.  I did not stammer or stutter, I just looked him in the eye.

The suitcase was closed and I moved on.  I don't know if they still toss your luggage on your way back to the USA but they sure tossed mine!

Hope this lends some clarity to your situation.

Wing Walker
Flown Less-Than-Friendly Skies before

Quote from: Hypatia on December 11, 2007, 08:19:27 PM
I'm asking because I plan to travel to Canada next year for my SRS (if, that is, I succeed in finding a job soon). And because once I roomed at an LGBT conference with a gorgeous young trans lady who was worried that she would get busted by the TSA when she flew back, she kept exclaiming "I'm not able to look like a boy!" She really couldn't pass for male at all. I never found out if she made it home with no problems.

The State Department has decided to give me attitude. They sent me my new passport with my pretty face and my new legal girlname... and M instead of the F I had applied for. They also would not tell me any reason why they didn't honor the letter from my doctor. I got a regular 10-year passport instead of the 1-year gender-changed version for pre-ops. So I'm stuck with that until after I manage to get SRS, whenever that will be. And it's getting harder for me to pass as male any more too. Not that I would even bother trying.

What did your doctor's letter say?  Have you received your letters of recommendation for SRS yet?  I think the State Dept. will change gender designation if the intention to have SRS is inevitable but as you pointed out in your post, it doesn't sound so inevitable, at least not at this point in time.

Well, in Canada, I think there's ZERO issues,
especially since your obviously coming to Montreal
and Montreal's quite use to this since Brassard
patients are not rare!

But in the USA, the TSA people have almost unlimited power in that airport - to think they might be bound by some sort of law, like the Constitution, well, that's SO pre-9-11 thinking - and if they don't like you, your F******.  There is nothing you can do.

Even if they don't like you, your passport is still
a proper ID and if you look like your ID and
the name's your name, why would be the problem?
Unless your on the no fly list
Why on earth would there be any problem

There are problems beyond the NO FLY list.  If they want to pull you aside for a 'little extra search' nothing you can do to stop them.  At that point, you can't even say, "forget it, I'll take the train" -- if they want to strip search you right then and there, they have that right (as minimum wage people at that).

Lucky for me I love trains and bars, so Amrak is good by me.  I would not fly if I had to.

There is another option to coming to Montreal
if you prefer a land crossing.
Landing at Platsburg's new international airport
and taking a bus or renting a car and crossing into Canada,
you can do the same on the way back.
Its not fast, but you avoid airports.
But, people at land crossing are often lot less knowledgeable
of these kind of special cases so I don't know if this is really better.


Even if they take you aside and strip search you.
Its very unpleasant, but its not the middle east
(where with such an ID I'd be really worried), they
would not find anything and have no ground to hold you.

BTW, I forgot, in Montreal, you clear US customs in Canada!!
So, your still on Canadian soil while your going through US
customs and the worse that can happen if they turn you back
is your stuck in Montreal where you can go to the US consulat and get things sorted (which should not be hard). You could even go
or ask the consulat for advice before travelling back to

US agents living in Montreal are probably not as terrible as those
at more backward airports.

Anyway, I think the chance of getting pulled is remote if you've got a surgeon's letter with you and clearly state what the deal is. What custom's agents are looking for most is lyars, no matter what's your story, if your status is legal and if your a US resident in good standing or US citizen, you've got the right of entry in the US.

I've been in the interview zone a few time at the Montreal airport because I was going to work or get interviews in the US.

A lot of hysteria on this thread.  First of all the TSA has seen plenty of us, most don't even bat an eye as long as the name on the ticket matches the one on the ID period.  Also did you apply for a Limited Validity(?) passport?  If you have documentation they are required to issue you a temporary FEMALE passport that's good for one year.  If you have time return the male passport with some documentation.  If you don't have the luxury of time (a passport can take 3 months to process) just suck it up and like I said: They've seen plenty of us.  Chill.

Quote from: Marlene on December 14, 2007, 08:56:57 PM
A lot of hysteria on this thread.  First of all the TSA has seen plenty of us, most don't even bat an eye as long as the name on the ticket matches the one on the ID period.  Also did you apply for a Limited Validity(?) passport?  If you have documentation they are required to issue you a temporary FEMALE passport that's good for one year.  If you have time return the male passport with some documentation.  If you don't have the luxury of time (a passport can take 3 months to process) just suck it up and like I said: They've seen plenty of us.  Chill.

I'm sorry but I think it is a valid question.  I dont sense any hysteria going on here, just differences of opinion.  Maybe the one who should chill is you since nobody is being confrontational about anything.

I, too, think it's a valid question.  I do think it would make a lot of difference if your ID picture did not match how you looked at the moment.

Kristi

Quote from: Valentina on December 14, 2007, 09:15:59 PM
I'm sorry but I think it is a valid question.  I dont sense any hysteria going on here, just differences of opinion.  Maybe the one who should chill is you since nobody is being confrontational about anything.

I didn't say it wasn't a valid question.  But some people did seem to be over-reacting some.  For example:

QuoteBut in the USA, the TSA people have almost unlimited power in that airport - to think they might be bound by some sort of law, like the Constitution, well, that's SO pre-9-11 thinking - and if they don't like you, your F******.  There is nothing you can do.

The original poster has a new pic on the passport.  Her name on the passport probably matches the name on the ticket.  As a result there shouldn't be a problem.  I'm not being confrontational, I know what things were like when I started out and how I worried needlessly over certain things.  I'm only letting her know that this really isn't a problem.  Like I said: The TSA has seen it all.

Quote from: Marlene on December 14, 2007, 09:38:55 PM

Quote from: Valentina on December 14, 2007, 09:15:59 PM
I'm sorry but I think it is a valid question.  I dont sense any hysteria going on here, just differences of opinion.  Maybe the one who should chill is you since nobody is being confrontational about anything.

I didn't say it wasn't a valid question.  But some people did seem to be over-reacting some.  For example:

QuoteBut in the USA, the TSA people have almost unlimited power in that airport - to think they might be bound by some sort of law, like the Constitution, well, that's SO pre-9-11 thinking - and if they don't like you, your F******.  There is nothing you can do.

The original poster has a new pic on the passport.  Her name on the passport probably matches the name on the ticket.  As a result there shouldn't be a problem.  I'm not being confrontational, I know what things were like when I started out and how I worried needlessly over certain things.  I'm only letting her know that this really isn't a problem.  Like I said: The TSA has seen it all.

has it occurred to you that maybe the newbies can benefit from this info? not everybody is travelling with a passport with a mismatch gender, ya know?

You people really know how to welcome new members.  I know other members here who could vouch for my credentials.  But I'm trying to remain stealth.  I think I'll just go and let you kids have the sandbox to yourselves.

Whatever

Quote from: Marlene on December 14, 2007, 09:54:20 PM
You people really know how to welcome new members.  I know other members here who could vouch for my credentials.  But I'm trying to remain stealth.  I think I'll just go and let you kids have the sandbox to yourselves.

Whatever

thank you for your thoughtfullness

Quote from: Marlene on December 14, 2007, 09:54:20 PM
You people really know how to welcome new members.  I know other members here who could vouch for my credentials.  But I'm trying to remain stealth.  I think I'll just go and let you kids have the sandbox to yourselves.

Whatever

Awwww, Marlene,
Please don't get upset.  Nobody was angry.  Cool down.  We do appreciate your input.


Kristi