I've been reading that Botox injections in the right muscle areas is an incredibly effective treatment for vaginismus in cis girls. Has anyone heard of it being tried in trans women to aid in the relaxing and stretching of the muscle groups? I'm totally aware the dialating for transsexual girls is also to prevent the vaginal canal from atrophy but, it's also very much about training and stretching muscles...

Botox *paralyzes* muscles, which seems like the exact opposite of relaxing them... it's good when those muscles are clenching constantly (vaginismus) but would probably be less helpful for someone who actually does need to learn to relax them.

I saved these to a txt file from another thread so IDK where they came from now, but I'll quote them here...

QuoteWell first of all its incorrect to say that ALL transwomen have to dilate. All do have to dilate while the healing process is taking place to avoid stenosis - but after a time, which varies from one woman to another dilation becomes somewhat optional. I'm over 30 years post-operative and I havent dilated in many many decades, yet I still have my full depth and capacity.

As a medical student I can answer your question as to why... the neovagina is created surgically from a pouch in the body, by extensive skin grafting. This means that there is a lot of healing being activated - and the tendency with healing is for the body to fill a cavity which is not yet lined with endothelial tissue... so until the cells of the graft undergo metaplastic change and become a psuedo-epithelium the cavity will tend to close over. Another problem is that in the early days the graft tissue may become hypertrophic and odematous - that is swollen - the pressure of the dilator helps to reverse this, and thus aids healthy healing.

However over time the body will learn that this cavity is permissable, and thus the dilation process - with frequent stretching and pressure eventually the whole structure settles and further dilation becomes unnecessary because the normal sexual activities that the woman is engaged in are more than sufficient to do the job.

I am not overly sexualy active, but even the occasional activity that I enjoy is more than sufficient to maintain everything and thus dilation is not a requirement.

QuoteWhile the body is healing after the surgery, several mechanisms are activated that involve creation and contraction of scar tissue. This affects mainly the diameter, but also the length of the vagina, and works quite efficiently during the first few months. Without dilation, diameter would be lost very quickly.
After a few months, the body is no longer creating or contracting scar tissue, and partial conversion of the scar tissue into other tissue keeps going on, but this process does not cause contraction any more.

Another reason for the need to dilate is that the inner end of the surgically created vagina is not attached to an uterus, which in turn would be supported and held in place by ligaments. The pressure in the pelvic cavity would tend to push it out very slowly, and we need to counteract that until the connective tissue around it settles into a state where it gives enough support, and dilation may become less frequent.

QuoteAccording to my surgeon, dilation allows the inside of the penile or scrotal skin to adhere to the tissue surrounding the opening. Without it, the skin will not heal onto the underlying tissue, and prolapse, where the skin falls out of the vagina, is possible.

Maybe some of that info is helpful?

I would think that Botox a poison and healing tissue would be a risky mix. Besides that, the real problem for me was applying enough pressure to maintain the proper depth. Your hand gets tired holding the dilator in place and Botox wouldn't help that.

Botox blocks signals from the nerves to the muscles. The injected muscle can no longer contract, which causes the wrinkles to relax and soften. It is most often used on forehead lines, crow's feet (lines around the eye) and frown lines. Wrinkles caused by sun damage and gravity will not respond to Botox.

www.medicinenet.com/botox_treatment/article.htm

Yes, I'm aware of its uses for wrinkles. It also used to treat excessive sweating and numerous other conditions, however,  I'm talking about its use in treating vaginisimus, as its a hugely effective treatment, in one clinical trial it successfully treated 29 out of 30 participants (1 withdrew from the trial)

Quote from: Isabelle on September 12, 2015, 12:17:35 PM
Yes, I'm aware of its uses for wrinkles. It also used to treat excessive sweating and numerous other conditions, however,  I'm talking about its use in treating vaginisimus, as its a hugely effective treatment, in one clinical trial it successfully treated 29 out of 30 participants (1 withdrew from the trial)

Sorry, that wasn't targeted at you. I'm having botox for focal dystonia, to relax a muscle in my hand. Botox doesn't care where it's injected. Logically, it should also relax muscles in the vagina.

Quote from: Isabelle on September 11, 2015, 11:08:53 AM
I've been reading that Botox injections in the right muscle areas is an incredibly effective treatment for vaginismus in cis girls. Has anyone heard of it being tried in trans women to aid in the relaxing and stretching of the muscle groups? I'm totally aware the dialating for transsexual girls is also to prevent the vaginal canal from atrophy but, it's also very much about training and stretching muscles...

Instead of paralyzing I'd use a lot of care for the neovagina...
-some people use estrogen cream (from a gyn, not OTC products with less estroge content) from time to time. It helps soften the tissue and can help turm the tissue into a mucosa. Studies have shown the tissue of a neovagina can turn into a mucosa over time with the influence of estrogen. Most of the estrogen is supposed to come from hrt.
-some people dilate with coconut oil. It has antifugal properties and small molecules, which also might help soften the tissue.
Use non latex condoms then (look up which ones are good). And the toys/dildos should be suitable.
-kegel exercises might be an idea though dilating might be more helpful. There are 40mm dilators available.
-some people have an applicator ready and use the bathroom before romantic moments
-some people are able to self lubricate. It might be a slippery substance coming from the urethra. Going to the toilet beforehand and then not holding in might help.

I really think you're missing the point Laura. Never mind. When I get back to my country, I'm being refered to the hospital to discus it with a specialist.

Quote from: Isabelle on September 12, 2015, 06:44:33 PM
I really think you're missing the point Laura. Never mind. When I get back to my country, I'm being refered to the hospital to discus it with a specialist.

Well there are no muscles lining the vagina as in cis people...
which can also be trained, some people use jade eggs if the muscles are too soft...
or dilation if muscles are too tight...

there are the muscles at the entrance of the vagina...
which can be trained by dilation...

Yeap. All good. Thank you.