I thought Elizabeth was very beautiful before the surgery.

Is there something wrong with me?  Because I need to know.



Rebis

Quote from: Rebis on December 11, 2007, 10:53:25 PM
I thought Elizabeth was very beautiful before the surgery.

Is there something wrong with me?  Because I need to know.



Rebis

Well there must be something wrong with me also because I thought she look great before surgery.

Most thought I looked great before my surgery too.

Frontal flash photos don't show much actually.
That's why I'm still somewhat critical of side and profile,
because I think surgeons concentrate too much on the front
view which often is not that bad and neglect side and quarter views.

Light to medium bossing doesn't show well under flash, since there is a flash sending light in a way the eye is not shadowed by the bossing. I posted a picture here in the sun which showed my pre FFS problem. I bet she had a similar issue. My nose from the front had just a slightly larger tip and from a top angle, the fact the nostril were not visible from the front, actually from any angle but under, didn't really show. From the side, the fact my nose bridge had collapsed was visible, and my nose was probably 50% longer than now!!!

As for the jaw, I'm all for a wide jaws in women (but not a high chin height). Paris Hilton and Angelina Jolie have wide jaws than Elizabeth's pre-FFS photos and I do too. If the chin is not high and square, I think jaw and chin work is pointless.

Quote from: Keira on December 12, 2007, 03:11:13 AM
Most thought I looked great before my surgery too.

Frontal flash photos don't show much actually.
That's why I'm still somewhat critical of side and profile,
because I think surgeons concentrate too much on the front
view which often is not that bad and neglect side and quarter views.

Light to medium bossing doesn't show well under flash, since there is a flash sending light in a way the eye is not shadowed by the bossing. I posted a picture here in the sun which showed my pre FFS problem. I bet she had a similar issue. My nose from the front had just a slightly larger tip and from a top angle, the fact the nostril were not visible from the front, actually from any angle but under, didn't really show. From the side, the fact my nose bridge had collapsed was visible, and my nose was probably 50% longer than now!!!

As for the jaw, I'm all for a wide jaws in women (but not a high chin height). Paris Hilton and Angelina Jolie have wide jaws than Elizabeth's pre-FFS photos and I do too. If the chin is not high and square, I think jaw and chin work is pointless.

true. i've seen people who pass perfectly in their avatars but when you meet them in person, they don't and are constantly called by the wrong titles and pronouns.

Well I can guarantee that this is a hundred percent me.



Lions Main and all. I call my hair my main and I gots the claws to go with it. "hee, hee, hee."
Not a lot to look at but that' s me.

Cindy

im with nero... there are some like that... then theres those like me, that cant take a photo for fudge.... and pass really nicely and never get the wrong pronouns... only look like crap   camera

Your right Kiera, side and quater are MORE important imo, than front, then again, a kurt russel chin might need sorting personally, i HATE how my mouth is so small, and my jaw so wide, its depressing, and i swear everyone clocks me because of it
R

Hi Rachael if the two pics you posted here are authentic then I must say you are very much a good looking girl.

Cindy

yep, bruital honest photos... as i know VERY little about or use much makeup
R

apparently elizabeth didn't think she was "beautiful" since she decided to have facial feminization surgery to improve her masculine features 

I know I'm kind of hijacking this thread, but I think these series of photos could be of interest to many.

The first three first shots were taken in month before FFS, there the worse shots I could find, I hate!!! them. Look at my hairline!! Horrid. FFS didn't touch my hairline, just HRT helped.





Last two, taken in same period as first 3, yet they look much much better. I wanted to illustrate how angle matters.




My nose needed improvement for sure, I couldn't breathe through it. And my forehead bossing was very visible in overhead light. Also, my eyes were about half my current size. I like the result immensely, it helped both passability AND beauty. So, hey, well spent 10K.

======
This is something we never see.
A precise photo Evolution in the first 5 months.
As you can see, for some, the change is drastic in very little time.
I've had electro done 10 years ago, so that wasn't in play.
I had FFS 5 months after starting FFS.

Initial

Month 1.5 month-2

Month 2-2.5

Month 2.5-3.5

Month 3.5-4

Month 4-4.5

======

So, did I pass prior to FFS, my estimation was about 90-95% inside, and 85-90% in the sun. It was early in HRT, but for me its obvious that the things I wanted changed would not be affected by HRT.

9 months post FFS

Quote from: Keira on December 12, 2007, 07:26:10 AM
I know I'm kind of hijacking this thread, but I think these series of photos could be of interest to many.

The first three first shots were taken in month before FFS, there the worse shots I could find, I hate!!! them. Look at my hairline!! Horrid. FFS didn't touch my hairline, just HRT helped.

So, did I pass prior to FFS, my estimation was about 90-95% inside, and 85-90% in the sun. It was early in HRT, but for me its obvious that the things I wanted changed would not be affected by HRT.

Your pics were really good Keira and I always admire your honesty and openess in presenting them. You must have taken a lot of photo's through every section of your transition which is something I never bothered to do. Your early pics look a bit how my brother looked when he was younger and then the recent one's look totally convincingly female.....I love IMG_4922 that's a really nice pic...

I think you've indirectly answered the question started by the thread......

Depends on your social network.

the most important part of living as a woman is having people treat you as one, passing helps allot with this though there are plenty of people out there who will see you for you, not just see a ->-bleeped-<-.

true maud, and i know i pass, as i fell into stealth at work... but passing =/= beauty

Kiera; you look female even in your most butch photos! ive seen more male looking natal women
R

Never tested for IS, don't even want to know.
But, from measurement point of view, all
my measurement face or body
are at the low end (not even average) of the "female" range
EXCEPT height. Very strange. That's why I looked
like that even pre HRT. Also, my face was very round
because I weight 25 pounds more than I do now!!!
When I was younger and dressing neutral, nothing
overtly female. I often heard people wonder if I was male or female...
I was already plucking my beard out with tweezers, that's dedicated stuff 

I think you had a touch or look of the knofler brothers about you in the early pics....
The transition is quite incredable and if I had known you at the start I wouldn't have thought it was possible......

thanks for sharing...

Quote from: Nero on December 12, 2007, 03:33:28 AMi've seen people who pass perfectly in their avatars but when you meet them in person, they don't and are constantly called by the wrong titles and pronouns.

I'm the opposite. In person, people look at me and see a woman. But my photos are mostly crap. Cameras hate me for some reason. I'm so dismayed by my photos that it's hard for me to believe what everyone keeps telling me: they only see a woman. But experience bears out that I really am read as a woman everywhere, it's always "ma'am" and "she" now.

The other day I went for an ultrasound. They made me change into a hospital gown and led me to the women's waiting room. While there, the other women in their gowns made girltalk with me. One of them said, "I'm going to get my breasts flattened." I looked puzzled. She explained, "Mammogram." Oh yeah, duh. I haven't had any mammograms yet, but I know what it is, and should have caught on immediately. I hoped my clueless response wasn't a tell. It wasn't. If she'd read me as male, no way would this conversation have taken place. So now I know I can be read as a woman up close during sustained conversation. It's getting better all the time...

Quote from: cindybc on December 12, 2007, 04:50:09 AM
Well I can guarantee that this is a hundred percent me.



Lions Main and all. I call my hair my main and I gots the claws to go with it. "hee, hee, hee."
Not a lot to look at but that' s me.

Cindy

You look very female. I think it helps to have a slighter, more feminine build to start with. Love the mane!

Quote from: Keira on December 12, 2007, 09:12:56 AM

Never tested for IS, don't even want to know.
But, from measurement point of view, all
my measurement face or body
are at the low end (not even average) of the "female" range
EXCEPT height. Very strange. That's why I looked
like that even pre HRT. Also, my face was very round
because I weight 25 pounds more than I do now!!!
When I was younger and dressing neutral, nothing
overtly female. I often heard people wonder if I was male or female...
I was already plucking my beard out with tweezers, that's dedicated stuff 

Thankyou Keira for sharing your experiences and photos.  I have similar features to you pre-ffs, so I am really hanging out for the surgery and the changes.  I also would like to keep a strong but feminine jaw, I find them very attractive on nearly every natal woman I've known or seen.  I definitely need cheek implants though because mine are flattened and sharp.


Regarding the OP question, whether you can live as your target gender without passing, IMO has been pretty well covered here by everyone and I agree with .  I think being accepted is important without a doubt, and that does not neccessarily mean you pass.  In your workplace, in your neighbourhood, in your community, amongst your friends and family, being accepted and respected is a godsend.  Acceptance and living a peaceful co-existence with others is important to me, without it life would be unbearable and painful.
Passing and living in stealth is an ideal position to be in, unfortunately not all will be able to through no fault of their own.  As the lines are becoming more blurred between the sexes, who knows what society will be like in the distant future.   

Hi Keira
May I suggest that you use the last or bottom picture with the red top for your avatar? You look really good in that one. But then you look good in all your photos.

Cindy

Quote from: Keira on December 12, 2007, 07:26:10 AM
I know I'm kind of hijacking this thread, but I think these series of photos could be of interest to many.

Keira, thank you for posting these pictures. It really helps those of us starting out on HRT. It gives us an example of what changes we might see after several months to a year of hormones, I appreciate it. Meghan