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FFS (DR. LAZARO CARDENAS) any feedback???

Started by Camille69, August 27, 2013, 01:55:08 AM

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crowcrow223

Quote from: jgirl76 on June 15, 2014, 02:06:41 PM
Bizarre! I received your message Carly and I responded... Did you not receive my response?

I also sent you a message about what worked for my scar lol :)
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calicarly

Quote from: jgirl76 on June 15, 2014, 02:06:41 PM
Bizarre! I received your message Carly and I responded... Did you not receive my response?

No Hun, didn't receive it ...
Low dose HRT-2004
Full time and full dose HRT-2009
BA/Rhinoplasty-May 2013
FFS-Aug 2014
Body contouring-Jan 2015
GRS- Feb 2016
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Roni

Quote from: jgirl76 on June 15, 2014, 02:06:41 PM
Bizarre! I received your message Carly and I responded... Did you not receive my response?

Jgirl, I know you accidentally sent me a message that wasn't meant for me. You were taking about Maderma and your scar. Carly probably never received it because it ended up in my inbox instead.
On the wild journey to self-discovery. Free yourself.
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Roni

Quote from: TearDrops on June 14, 2014, 10:03:04 AM
I cannot find the email that I sent to jgirl anywhere. If you read this post jgirl, could you please send a copy of it to my private e mail address, that is if you did receive it, thank you.

Be sure to check the box "save copy to outbox" or something along those lines before you send a message to someone. By doing so, you will save a copy of whatever you send to people. That way if they never receive it I just Copy and Paste and send it again.  :laugh:
On the wild journey to self-discovery. Free yourself.
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Alexi90

Hey Ladies, I'm thinking about going to see Dr.Lazaro and from what I can see most of you are very happy with the results would you mind sharing some before and afters ?

He did my friend FFS on two parts and the results are great but I'm very nervous being in mexico and all but
the price is so so affordable, I was going to go to dr jeffrey spiegel in Boston as my plan B.

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Wednesday

"Witches were a bit like cats" - Terry Pratchett
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jgirl76

I did not obtain good results from Dr. Cardenas. He did a type I forehead procedure and I needed type III. I still have brow bossing and my front sinus still protrudes. He also didn't take any of the jaw flaring away, my jaw is still quite square. Honestly for the money I think Dr. Rossi would be a better bet. I'm not the only one on the forum who feels they received a poor forehead result. If you need a type III (most people do) I would strongly consider another surgeon.
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Evolving Beauty

Quote from: jgirl76 on September 18, 2015, 02:53:51 AM
I did not obtain good results from Dr. Cardenas. He did a type I forehead procedure and I needed type III. I still have brow bossing and my front sinus still protrudes. He also didn't take any of the jaw flaring away, my jaw is still quite square. Honestly for the money I think Dr. Rossi would be a better bet. I'm not the only one on the forum who feels they received a poor forehead result. If you need a type III (most people do) I would strongly consider another surgeon.

DUH! I think I'm going back to Chettawut again too then, it's the FACE. Can't take major risks
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MsFierce

He's a nice guy. Unfortunately, I too didn't obtain good results. I was given a type 1 and I was told by a surgeon recently that I needed a type 3. I even had a X-ray done to prove it. I can't tell anyone whether to go with him or not. You have to figure that out yourself. I will say with my transition I've done things by going the "easy, cheaper way" when it comes to my surgeries and I'm living proof that you shouldn't go by whose cheaper but whose most experienced. I thank God my mom is still here to support me mentally because I've felt many times giving up.
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RubyAliza

Tinkerbell - Don't give up! It may take a few years but you should save up and like jgirl 76 has said, find another doctor who is right for you. I went to Dr. Rossi. See my thread [url]https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,189339.0.html[/url. He is very affordable and he does very aggressive type 3 contouring while still being safe. Check his credentials, he's a craniofacial surgeon just like Dr. Ousterhout. My forehead is very smooth, see my before/afters.

I know just what you mean by regretting going cheap on something so important. Usually it's true that you get what you pay for. However, in my case, Dr. Rossi isn't well known yet and so his prices are much lower at least for the time being. I think oftentimes it's not necessarily that you're paying for higher quality but that you're paying more for a good reputation. But yes, it's better to wait, save your money, and pay for a better surgeon than to have to go through a revision surgery, which is can be more difficult, expensive, and risky. In the end, if you go cheap, the final price comes out to even more because you have to pay twice! And that's not including all the anguish and emotional and physical pain you go through. I'm so sorry to hear what you and jgirl76 have gone through.

Both of you are still beautiful, I'm sure :) You'll get to where you want, don't give up!


- Ruby
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bibilinda

Quote from: TearDrops on June 12, 2014, 08:16:46 PM
I have to have all my procedures done again, after Dr Cardenas messed it up by not doing enough nor doing what I actually paid him to do. These were, a sliding genioplasty and a type III. He didnt even refund me the money that I paid him for these procedures, he just said that the same amount of time, work and effort was involved in what he had done.

I paid for a type III for my forehead, I also paid for a sliding genioplasty for my chin. He did neither. I actually believe, from everything that I have read, that he does not like doing them, because its stretches him to the limits of his capabilities. All the forums I go on say the same thing over and over, "Dr C said that I didn't need a type III". Lets be honest, statistically, not my opinion, but statistically, 90% of men who have FFS will only get a truly feminine looking forehead with a type III. Anything else is pie in the sky, and your just kidding yourself if you think otherwise, you may pass okay, but with a type III, you could of had a much better end result. I paid him to do the procedure, so why the hell didn't he just do it?
Every procedure that he performed on my face has to be redone. Like I've already said several times on this forum, even if he offered to redo my surgeries for nothing, I would not let him. People only go to him because of his cheaper prices, well you get what you pay for. I'm now sick and tired of talking about Cardenas and his team of Muppets, I've warned everybody about him to the point of boring people. That is it now, no more.

My experience was exactly the same. Bottom line: he did not do what I paid him to do, after being super-specific and him agreeing to it (it was only jaw reduction, nothing else, I got some X-ray studies, drew marks of exactly what I wanted, he saw it, agreed 100% to it and then he did a totally different thing and very asymmetrical as well, I mean he took off much more bone from one side than the other).

I also told him about how dissatisfied I was with his poor work, in hopes of getting him to offer to refund me at least his surgery fees even if not any of the hospital, anesthesia and assistant fees. But nope, he offered no refund and he actually denied having done a poor job on me as well as something entirely different from what we both agreed he would do. I feel exactly the same way as TearDrops: even if he offered to redo my surgeries for nothing, I would not let him.

Just keep this in mind if you even consider going to have anything major, FFS-related (bone work) done with Cardenas: 1) as it has been mentioned HE IS NOT a craniomaxillofacial surgeon, he is only a plastic surgeon. 2) You get to pay 20-30% of what you would pay to a real top-notch FFS surgeon in Europe, USA, and also a bit less than one of the top guys in Thailand or South America. Well, that's what you'll get: 20-30% improvement, TOPS, if you are lucky, with any bone-related surgery by him but most probably you will be in need of corrective surgery. 3) Don't be deceived by his advertisements everywhere, where he appears next to the real top surgeons in directories of FFS surgeons worldwide. He is definitely the most known (or actually THE ONLY one) FFS surgeon in Mexico, which doesn't mean that he is good at what he does. He just knows how to promote himself to appear to be one of the top guys for FFS. 4) If you will not have anything major (bone-related) such as forehead, chin or jaw done on your face, MAYBE his "affordable" prices could be worth it, since he IS a plastic surgeon after all. But you'd really need to get in touch with at least a couple of unbiased recent patients of his, willing to share with you pics or preferably videos before-after, the after being at least six months since the procedure. Never trust the so-called experiences of his own Youtube channel or his own advertising Web Sites! Of course he will show only his most successful cases, you will never see the average ones and much less the non-successful ones, which I believe are the majority of his patients.

Cheers

Bibi B.



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firestarter

Hi Bibi, I have sent you a private message regarding your post above.
Much Money, Much Pain, Many Moons.
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MsFierce

Quote from: RubyAliza on September 22, 2015, 01:03:04 AM
Tinkerbell - Don't give up! It may take a few years but you should save up and like jgirl 76 has said, find another doctor who is right for you. I went to Dr. Rossi. See my thread [url]https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,189339.0.html[/url. He is very affordable and he does very aggressive type 3 contouring while still being safe. Check his credentials, he's a craniofacial surgeon just like Dr. Ousterhout. My forehead is very smooth, see my before/afters.

I know just what you mean by regretting going cheap on something so important. Usually it's true that you get what you pay for. However, in my case, Dr. Rossi isn't well known yet and so his prices are much lower at least for the time being. I think oftentimes it's not necessarily that you're paying for higher quality but that you're paying more for a good reputation. But yes, it's better to wait, save your money, and pay for a better surgeon than to have to go through a revision surgery, which is can be more difficult, expensive, and risky. In the end, if you go cheap, the final price comes out to even more because you have to pay twice! And that's not including all the anguish and emotional and physical pain you go through. I'm so sorry to hear what you and jgirl76 have gone through.

Both of you are still beautiful, I'm sure :) You'll get to where you want, don't give up!


- Ruby

Thanks so much for the kind words Ruby. You're beautiful inside and OUT. I've been in contact with Dr. Rossi who has approved me for surgery . I'm going to try to be going down in the spring.
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Blairdlena

Gee... it surprises me when I hear of someone disappointed with Dr. Cardenas' work. I saw Dr. Cardenas in Feb. '14 and Feb. '15 for FFS. Why two visits? The main reason is the time constraints he so wisely imposes on the total time under anesthesia. When you go over 5 - 6 hours, the risks increase substantially. Also, there's no truth in the presumption that Dr. Cardenas does no like or is overly challenged by a type-III forehead reconstruction or osteotomy (sliding genioplasy)of the chin. I've had both performed by him with no ill side affects and no down time (as reported in another post here). I've heard of a number of FFS surgeons in the U.S. not feeling up to such work, but never about Dr. Cardenas. I might add, it was Dr. Cardenas that suggested I opt for the procedures I had, including the type-III and the sliding genioplasy. Post-surgery, we sat down and reviewed the actual photos from the surgery. It was amazing!!

I might also add, I've heard of disappointments from just about every FFS surgeon out there, from patients of Dr. Ousterhout to Dr. Spiegel to FacialTeam... none of them are compaint free. Is it the surgeon??? Maybe it's us, sometimes. I speak from personal experience when i say I'm a difficult person to please, cosmetic surgery wise. I had this image in my mind of exactly what I THOUGHT I needed to look like to escape the face if been running from for over 50 years. I thought I had to look like a caricature of a woman and remove every trace of my former face. Dr. Cardenas listened to what I wanted and looked at the photos I brought with me. He was so incredibly honest! He refused to make me look ridiculous or like a cartoon. In addition, there's limitations our own facial structure placed upon the surgeon.  Initially (after the first surgery) I thought I needed a lot more. Truthfully, it's common to feel depressed and disappointed after cosmetic surgery. Dr. Dub row even stresses this on the TV show 'Botched'. I'm so thankful for Dr. Cardenas and his staff. Oh... and his facility outshines anything I've seen in the U.S.

I'm saddened to say, there are some SERIOUS complications (beyond gripes and complaints) that I've heard out of Boston and Spain. I'm heartbroken to hear that one of my friends will never regain full use of her vocal cords after a serious screwup with the intubation tube by one of these. Another friend had to have her jaw wired shut after a mishap at the other. FFS, like any surgery, is not without risks. I know Dr. Cardenas does everything possible to minimize the risks and is a highly, highly competent surgeon and surgical artist. For the work I wanted done, when Dr. Ousterhout retired, there was only one choice.

As far as going to Guadalajara for surgery. This isn't like the hack-job placed you hear about by folks trying to scare you away from medical care in Mexico or other countries. The facility and care in GDL is world class! I even took it s step further to prove that there's nothing to fear by staying in a hotel instead of the recovery house this last visit. I walked to/from the clinic each day, plus walked many other streets and backroads.. even a few dirt trails... all to disprove the wrong-think we have in the states about life in other countries. Tell you what... it's doubtful I'd feel as comfortable and safe in many cities in the U.S.

When I can, I'd be willing to share photos of before and after.
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myfairlady49

Quote from: Blairdlena on October 01, 2015, 09:08:57 PM

           For the work I wanted done, when Dr. Ousterhout retired, there was only one choice.


From the  Yelp reviews - - Dr. O's patients are rather pleased with the surgeon he selected to be his successor.

See, for example,  the three most recent reviews:   

                http://www.yelp.com/biz/jordan-deschamps-braly-md-san-francisco

One is from a patient who is, herself, an M.D. !  States she consulted with 10 other surgeons before deciding to have her surgery done by Dr. Ousterhout's successor.  Her face looks really natural.

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radialan

#56
Dr. Cardenas has hundreds of happy FFS patients dating as far back as the mid 1990's.  Like any surgeon who operates as often as he does, there are a small number of unsatisfied clients who are very vocal about it.  A surgeon with no negative mentions online is one that simply hasn't performed the procedure in question long enough for it to happen.   

In any case, there are many reasons why a patient might become disgruntled and I think it's important to mention some of them here in this forum:

1.  The patient has unrealistic expectations about the procedure(s):  All surgeons have had patients that fall into this category.  It's not difficult for the surgeon to avoid the most obvious cases, but sometimes patients have a hidden objective in mind.  For example, a patient might say that her goal is to make her masculine facial features appear more feminine.  But, after the surgery, she might express dissatisfaction about her perception that she is not "beautiful."  We once received a call from a young Asian teen from Manila who wanted to know if we could guarantee that she would look like Angelina Jolie!  The answer is no.  Unfortunately, most patients are not quite this obvious in broadcasting their unrealistic expectations.

2.  The patient suffers from Body Dysmorphic Disorder (BDD): People with BDD are preoccupied with an imagined physical defect or a minor defect that others often cannot see.  We look carefully for signs of this, but aren't always successful in detecting it in advance.  Someone who suffers from Body Dysmorphia cannot be made happy with surgery.  She must first treat this problem before considering surgery.  If you look carefully as some of the recent posts on this forum, you'll see signs of BDD.  Although we try to identify and refer patients with BDD for mental health treatment, they are sometimes able to mask the problem until after the surgery. 

3.  The patient is uncertain about what she wants: Transitioning is no cake walk and decisions don't happen overnight.  We realize this.  But, sometimes patients move the goal posts after the surgery is done and unfairly blame the surgeon.  We once had a patient that told us that he didn't want complete feminization because he wasn't transitioning.  He merely wanted to soften some of his features and to repair a poor surgical outcome from another surgeon.  He cautioned Dr. Cardenas not to make the features too feminine since he must be able to pass as male.  We understood that the patient wanted to live as a male most of the time.  The patient contacted us about a year later and stated that she had now decided to transition and wanted the procedures done again, but this time with feminization in mind.  She felt that we should have treated them as "touch ups" and not as new procedures.  We declined to do this since the goal had been completely changed.  We did what was requested but it was no longer good enough since the patient now wanted full feminization.  In hindsight, we wish we had detected the uncertainty in her objectives.  What a difference a year delay would have made.

4.  The patient has complications:  Complications sometimes happen despite the best of care and patients are always informed in advance about them.  When they happen, the patient will usually accept them and accept our help in resolving them.  However, we've also had patients who blamed us for a complication that was not within our control.  Some patients develop infections or other complications because they refuse to follow the post-op instructions, don't take their antibiotics, or fail to keep the incisions clean, etc.  Yet, some of these patients will blame the surgeon.

5.  The impatient patient: This is an extremely common issue that we can usually resolve by reassuring a patient that her healing is still underway and that the final result won't be visible for a while.  Still, we've had some patients that have gone online to express their frustration about results that are masked by inflammation.

6.  The surgeon makes a mistake:  Surgeons are human and can, in fact, occasionally make a mistake.  Fortunately, most mistakes can be fixed if the patient agrees to it. 

In summary, there are many reasons why a patient might perceive her outcome to be poor.  Unhappy patients are by far the most vocal.  That being said, there are also some posts where the author is completely unknown to us. In these unidentifiable cases, we are left to wonder if a competitor may be responsible for them - especially in cases where the proposed alternative is always the same.

Regardless, these negative posts represent a very small number compared to our hundreds of satisfied patients.  Many of these patients have written testimonials which we have posted online and most of them have provided an e-mail address so that they may be contacted.
Disclosure - This message has been posted by a member of the TransOp team in Mexico.
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Evolving Beauty

Quote from: radialan on October 07, 2015, 09:23:17 AM
Dr. Cardenas has hundreds of happy FFS patients dating as far back as the mid 1990's.  Like any surgeon who operates as often as he does, there are a small number of unsatisfied clients who are very vocal about it.  A surgeon with no negative mentions online is one that simply hasn't performed the procedure in question long enough for it to happen.   

In any case, there are many reasons why a patient might become disgruntled and I think it's important to mention some of them here in this forum:

1.  The patient has unrealistic expectations about the procedure(s):  All surgeons have had patients that fall into this category.  It's not difficult for the surgeon to avoid the most obvious cases, but sometimes patients have a hidden objective in mind.  For example, a patient might say that her goal is to make her masculine facial features appear more feminine.  But, after the surgery, she might express dissatisfaction about her perception that she is not "beautiful."  We once received a call from a young Asian teen from Manila who wanted to know if we could guarantee that she would look like Angelina Jolie!  The answer is no.  Unfortunately, most patients are not quite this obvious in broadcasting their unrealistic expectations.

2.  The patient suffers from Body Dysmorphic Disorder (BDD): People with BDD are preoccupied with an imagined physical defect or a minor defect that others often cannot see.  We look carefully for signs of this, but aren't always successful in detecting it in advance.  Someone who suffers from Body Dysmorphia cannot be made happy with surgery.  She must first treat this problem before considering surgery.  If you look carefully as some of the recent posts on this forum, you'll see signs of BDD.  Although we try to identify and refer patients with BDD for mental health treatment, they are sometimes able to mask the problem until after the surgery. 

3.  The patient is uncertain about what she wants: Transitioning is no cake walk and decisions don't happen overnight.  We realize this.  But, sometimes patients move the goal posts after the surgery is done and unfairly blame the surgeon.  We once had a patient that told us that he didn't want complete feminization because he wasn't transitioning.  He merely wanted to soften some of his features and to repair a poor surgical outcome from another surgeon.  He cautioned Dr. Cardenas not to make the features too feminine since he must be able to pass as male.  We understood that the patient wanted to live as a male most of the time.  The patient contacted us about a year later and stated that she had now decided to transition and wanted the procedures done again, but this time with feminization in mind.  She felt that we should have treated them as "touch ups" and not as new procedures.  We declined to do this since the goal had been completely changed.  We did what was requested but it was no longer good enough since the patient now wanted full feminization.  In hindsight, we wish we had detected the uncertainty in her objectives.  What a difference a year delay would have made.

4.  The patient has complications:  Complications sometimes happen despite the best of care and patients are always informed in advance about them.  When they happen, the patient will usually accept them and accept our help in resolving them.  However, we've also had patients who blamed us for a complication that was not within our control.  Some patients develop infections or other complications because they refuse to follow the post-op instructions, don't take their antibiotics, or fail to keep the incisions clean, etc.  Yet, some of these patients will blame the surgeon.

5.  The impatient patient: This is an extremely common issue that we can usually resolve by reassuring a patient that her healing is still underway and that the final result won't be visible for a while.  Still, we've had some patients that have gone online to express their frustration about results that are masked by inflammation.

6.  The surgeon makes a mistake:  Surgeons are human and can, in fact, occasionally make a mistake.  Fortunately, most mistakes can be fixed if the patient agrees to it. 

In summary, there are many reasons why a patient might perceive her outcome to be poor.  Unhappy patients are by far the most vocal.  That being said, there are also some posts where the author is completely unknown to us. In these unidentifiable cases, we are left to wonder if a competitor may be responsible for them - especially in cases where the proposed alternative is always the same.

Regardless, these negative posts represent a very small number compared to our hundreds of satisfied patients.  Many of these patients have written testimonials which we have posted online and most of them have provided an e-mail address so that they may be contacted.

What do you have to say about Dr Cardenas every time trying to 'escape' the type III foreheads and always converging to Type 1 despite Type III was what was requested by patients from the beginning. Many have said they requested Type III and he always end up doing Type 1/2. And it's not one or two people but I heard like more than 5 different people complaining the same thing.
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radialan

#59
Dr. Cardenas always takes into account what the patient wants and doesn't base his decision on any personal preference.  However, decisions about specific surgical procedures and methods shouldn't be made arbitrarily or unilaterally.  They should be made jointly by both the patient and surgeon.

Sometimes only one established surgical procedure is appropriate to achieve the desired result and it is the surgeon's duty to explain this to the patient.  If, on the other hand, the surgical approach preferred by the patient doesn't put the final result at risk and is otherwise acceptable, Dr. Cardenas will perform the exact procedure requested even if another procedure might also work.  In all cases, the patient must agree to the selected list of procedures and sign a consent form that lists each procedure and the associated risks.  In no case would a procedure be performed which was not authorized by the patient in writing before the surgery.

We know that most of our patients don't want to spend their money needlessly, so Dr. Cardenas only recommends FFS procedures which will actually help the patient achieve her goal.  Despite the fact that we are able to charge more for Type III forehead bone reconstruction, it is not ethical for us to insist on this approach merely for financial reasons or to give us a competitive advantage over surgeons that don't offer the procedure.  The truth is that conventional forehead bone contouring is often appropriate and will produce the same result as the Type III procedure while offering the patient a less invasive and therefore safer procedure.  The health and safety of our patients is our highest priority and should trump financial or marketplace motivations.

When it comes to the forehead, patients often arrive with a specific procedure in mind.  Perhaps they have read some of the strong opinions in the online forums which surround this issue.  These opinions influence a lot of patients but many of them lack a sound medical basis.  We've had some patients who expressed an initial preference for the Type III procedure but who ended up opting for conventional forehead bone contouring after meeting with Dr. Cardenas.  In contrast, we've had patients who preferred contouring but elected to have the Type III procedure in the end.  Furthermore, there are cases where the patient authorizes Dr. Cardenas to make the Type III vs. conventional contouring decision in the operating room using a process called transillumination to view the frontal sinus and surrounding bone.  In no case does Dr. Cardenas make such a judgement call in surgery without the patient having authorized it in advance. 

Finally, should a patient needing forehead femeninization insist on Type III forehead bone reconstruction, Dr. Cardenas will perform this procedure even if he determines that conventional contouring would also work.  In all cases, he presents his recommendation, explains the benefits and risks, and let's the patient make a medically-informed decision.
Disclosure - This message has been posted by a member of the TransOp team in Mexico.
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