Update (surgery date: September 16):

Pain in my throat is now mild, almost completely gone. I can swallow normally, and I suspect the tightness in my throat is mostly the tape pulling on my skin.

Phlegm is mostly clear, sometimes a very light green. I occasionally notice tiny specks of pink/red, which I assume to be blood. I'm not sure if this is due to me clearing my throat (carefully), or just dried blood from the surgical site dissolving into the phlegm.

Earlier I reported no change in taste except for some numbness in my tongue. The numbness has faded and is almost gone, but my sensitivity to minty flavours seems to have been heightened. I noticed this when taking my estrace pills sublingually, where before I never noticed any minty taste at all.

Some points of information:

- Dr. Haben uses dissolvable sutures on the vocal folds and permament sutures on the crico-thyroids, because the vocal folds are exposed to the environment. External permanent sutures would present an infection risk. I understand Dr. Kim's procedure covers the permanent suture with mucus membrane that heals over, so just two different ways to achieve the same goal.

- Dr. Haben assured me that the effects of the CTA are permanent and irreversible once fully healed, which allayed my concerns about the sutures coming undone or snapping due to trauma. He said even cutting out the sutures afterwards would not reverse the effects.

- For the glottoplasty procedure, Dr. Haben explained that a CTA cannot be substituted by further shortening the vocal folds instead. Over-shortening the vocal folds makes the voice sound weird and unnatural. This makes sense if compared to a string instrument of some kind. (using a capo and tightening the low E string on a guitar to mimic a thinner string, rather than using a high fret without tuning the string)

- During my assessment, Dr. Haben instructed me to go from a chest to head voice, and he felt the movement of my larynx when my voice broke into head voice. Basically, more movement in the larynx is ideal. I didn't ask why, figuring the explanation would be too technical for me to understand.
***conjecture on my part: since the CTA permanent contracts the crico-thyroids partially, having more movement would mean more range is preserved, since there'll be more "left-over" free movement afterwards, if that makes sense.

And that's all for now!

The reason for moving the larynx (and I might get an argument from others on this) is it reduces the size of the cavity above the cord making the resonance higher. This filters some of the lower tones out you voice leaving the higher feminine sounding tones. I understand that CIS females do this naturally and I have confirmed it working with FTMs on their voice. I can lower their voice by teaching them how to relax the area above the larynx. With FTM, the voices don't go all way to the male range, but they can move into the alto range which when combined with monotone speech will gender questionable or male with a very high voice. I have seen FTM doing this even after T had an effect so to get the range they desire, they have to learn how to relax.

The first time the stitch came out during the healing process and my voice did not change one bit. The s Second time he took and put two stitches in and my voice has changed but not half as much as I thought it would. And that surgery was in April of this year. My voice is still a bit raspy and getting better all the time. Would I go threw this again I can't say. It is like rolling the dice. It may or may not work. And you don't know what the outcome will be for around 6 months to a year. I do have to say the doctor Haben is a wonderful person and he dose try hard.


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Hi Dena, Dr. Haben explained to me that the CTA procedure mimics the contraction of the crico-thyroid muscles when moving into head voice, which stretches the vocal folds, increasing the pitch. The CTA procedure makes permanently stretches the vocal folds in this manner, increasing pitch and cutting out the lower frequency. You're right that resonance is probably affected too.

Lyndsey, I'm sorry about your bad experience, but may I ask how the suture came out? Was it due to Dr. Haben's error, or was it something you did by accident?

I don't know why the stitches came out but it was hard to go back a second time. I have it redone on April 29th 2015 and my voice is better now but still not that great by any means.   I will not go back a third time as in my opinion it is not worth the time and healing to change  my voice so little.


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Sorry for the lack of updates! I had a lot of resting, recovering and stuff to do in general when I got back home on Friday.

I'll post with more detail, along with recordings and photos later, but short story: MY VOICE IS COMPLETELY PASSABLE WITHOUT ANY EFFORT TO ALTER PITCH OR RESONANCE!

On Day 8, I had to use it several times on the trip back home, and I met up with a friend for supper the same day, and I just sounded like a woman with a bad cold. Even random noises like clearing my throat, coughing or sighing sound female now.

Frequences according to my smartphone tuner app:

Clearing throat, coughing, sighing: 240hz
Comfortable ahhhh sound, with no phlegm: 235-240hz
Ahhhh sound after voice is fatigued (2-3 minutes of constant talking): 180hz (note: it doesn't drop by itself; I push it lower so it doesn't break up. Speaking at a higher frequency for too long irritates my vocal folds.)
Lowest frequency possible, with phlegm cleared without glottal fry: 155hz
Highest non-falsetto frequency possible, with phlegm cleared: 330hz

Sidenote: My old speaking frequency was 115hz according to Dr. Haben, comfortable ahhh was 130hz. No voice training whatsoever. Also, at the same frequencies I was capable of making before, my voice sounds completely different, like a woman trying to sound like a man.

Earlier I posted on Cadence's thread that my larynx looked more prominent, and it turns out I wasn't imagining it. Dr. Haben mentioned that there was still substantial swelling at my one-week post-op, and even then it's already gone down noticeably. The new web has already formed nicely at one-week, and Dr. Haben said I'm no longer in danger of damaging; using my voice less at this point will just mean a full recovery sooner.

Lyndsey, I'm sorry you had to go through that, but I'm happy that you got it worked out, since any improvement can make a huge difference. Did you have the glottoplasty only, or the triple if you don't mind me asking?

YOU WIN! I'm happy for you! A little jeally too. I still gotta mess with my hyoid, but it's become second nature already.

Are you in the Rochester area?? I have a lady friend there that I'll be visiting on and off.

Hey Cadence! Unfortunately I'm way over on the west, which was why I had to stay in Rochester for a week following my operation. I'll send you a message in a bit.

By the way now that you mention it, I think I do shift my larynx a little, but I do it almost unconsciously. It's not a strained effort by any means, just an adjustment, because I think I'll need a while to develop the proper muscle memory.

Update: comfortable ahhh is now 200hz, so it does seem to go down throughout the day with more use. My guess is using it irritates the folds, causing swelling and more phlegm to accumulate, increasing the mass and thickness of the vocal folds, thus lowering my pitch. Even at the lower pitch, my voice lacks the qualities that make it sound male. At worst, it sounds androgynous or the result of a bad cold (like Cadence's relaxed morning voice, but hoarser).

I'm still 100% elated with how everything has turned out so far, and I'm excited to see how things go in the coming weeks and months.

Omg! How exciting, I'm so happy for you! How do you think you had such a great prognosis in such a short amount of time with the CTA?

this seems like the best option for me, I think I'll be booking for November :3

Quote from: runaway on September 28, 2015, 10:34:57 AM
Sorry for the lack of updates! I had a lot of resting, recovering and stuff to do in general when I got back home on Friday.

I'll post with more detail, along with recordings and photos later, but short story: MY VOICE IS COMPLETELY PASSABLE WITHOUT ANY EFFORT TO ALTER PITCH OR RESONANCE!

On Day 8, I had to use it several times on the trip back home, and I met up with a friend for supper the same day, and I just sounded like a woman with a bad cold. Even random noises like clearing my throat, coughing or sighing sound female now.

Frequences according to my smartphone tuner app:

Clearing throat, coughing, sighing: 240hz
Comfortable ahhhh sound, with no phlegm: 235-240hz
Ahhhh sound after voice is fatigued (2-3 minutes of constant talking): 180hz (note: it doesn't drop by itself; I push it lower so it doesn't break up. Speaking at a higher frequency for too long irritates my vocal folds.)
Lowest frequency possible, with phlegm cleared without glottal fry: 155hz
Highest non-falsetto frequency possible, with phlegm cleared: 330hz

Sidenote: My old speaking frequency was 115hz according to Dr. Haben, comfortable ahhh was 130hz. No voice training whatsoever. Also, at the same frequencies I was capable of making before, my voice sounds completely different, like a woman trying to sound like a man.

Earlier I posted on Cadence's thread that my larynx looked more prominent, and it turns out I wasn't imagining it. Dr. Haben mentioned that there was still substantial swelling at my one-week post-op, and even then it's already gone down noticeably. The new web has already formed nicely at one-week, and Dr. Haben said I'm no longer in danger of damaging; using my voice less at this point will just mean a full recovery sooner.

Lyndsey, I'm sorry you had to go through that, but I'm happy that you got it worked out, since any improvement can make a huge difference. Did you have the glottoplasty only, or the triple if you don't mind me asking?

Congratulations!! Can't wait to test out my voice tomorrow!

Quote from: runaway on September 28, 2015, 10:34:57 AM
Sorry for the lack of updates! I had a lot of resting, recovering and stuff to do in general when I got back home on Friday.

I'll post with more detail, along with recordings and photos later, but short story: MY VOICE IS COMPLETELY PASSABLE WITHOUT ANY EFFORT TO ALTER PITCH OR RESONANCE!

On Day 8, I had to use it several times on the trip back home, and I met up with a friend for supper the same day, and I just sounded like a woman with a bad cold. Even random noises like clearing my throat, coughing or sighing sound female now.

Frequences according to my smartphone tuner app:

Clearing throat, coughing, sighing: 240hz
Comfortable ahhhh sound, with no phlegm: 235-240hz
Ahhhh sound after voice is fatigued (2-3 minutes of constant talking): 180hz (note: it doesn't drop by itself; I push it lower so it doesn't break up. Speaking at a higher frequency for too long irritates my vocal folds.)
Lowest frequency possible, with phlegm cleared without glottal fry: 155hz
Highest non-falsetto frequency possible, with phlegm cleared: 330hz

Sidenote: My old speaking frequency was 115hz according to Dr. Haben, comfortable ahhh was 130hz. No voice training whatsoever. Also, at the same frequencies I was capable of making before, my voice sounds completely different, like a woman trying to sound like a man.

Earlier I posted on Cadence's thread that my larynx looked more prominent, and it turns out I wasn't imagining it. Dr. Haben mentioned that there was still substantial swelling at my one-week post-op, and even then it's already gone down noticeably. The new web has already formed nicely at one-week, and Dr. Haben said I'm no longer in danger of damaging; using my voice less at this point will just mean a full recovery sooner.

Lyndsey, I'm sorry you had to go through that, but I'm happy that you got it worked out, since any improvement can make a huge difference. Did you have the glottoplasty only, or the triple if you don't mind me asking?

Oh my gosh! I am SO excited for you! This is making me a lot more confident for my upcoming surgery with him.

HUGE UPDATE!!

I'm sorry I've been missing in action for the past week, but I was too tired and drugged out to keep up with school work while in Rochester, so I had a lot of catching up to do when I got back.

First off: My first recording! http://vocaroo.com/i/s0OZXHUGEhDl
Note: Sorry about the quality and the constant clipping of the recording..not sure why that happened. My voice sounds a bit nasal cos my nose was a bit blocked when I made the recording.

There's gonna be some repetition below of what I've discussed in my recording, for those of you who can't listen to it at the moment, or don't wanna sit through the whole recording.

Pitch
My lowest, comfortable, and highest non-falsetto pitch hasn't changed much, and varies slightly depending on how much I've used it before, which usually drops my pitch about 10-15hz. This is probably due to swelling and accumulated phlegm, and it the pitch goes back up once I've had some time to recover.

Vocal Range
My non-falsetto range has actually increased! Prior to my triple procedure, my lowest pitch was about 90hz, and the highest about 190hz, about a 100hz range. Now it's 180hz to 330hz, about a 150hz range, which equates to a 50% increase! I can sing along with most female singers now, albeit very softly in an very breathy voice.

Passability
100%!!!! Ever since I started using it on the 8th day post-op, it's been completely passable, and it's only improved since. Despite my pushing my pitch lower initially due to the laryngitis and later on due to my mental block, it sounds female, and this includes coughing, sighing, clearing my throat, etc. While I could reach 180hz before and after, the other qualities of my voice has been feminized. Instead of bassy undertones, I now have sibilant overtones. This makes sense, since female vocal folds are shorter, thinner and tighter, and Dr. Haben's triple procedure does exactly that. I just sound like a woman recovering from a bad cold.

Incision scar
The scar looks good, and has been slowly fading. However, I have adhesion to my thyroid cartilage, which apparently is not uncommon with any surgical incision. It looks fine, but my skin is pulled up when I swallow. Dr. Haben has instructed me to massage it for 20 minutes 3 times a day with a hot towel in addition to neck rotation and shoulder stretching exercises to break up the adhesion.

Photo:


And that's it for now! I hope this helps those of you on the fence to decide. Personally, I have no regrets whatsoever, and I'm completely satisfied with the results, even though my voice hasn't even fully recovered yet.

Audreelyn: I have no idea, but I think the mental block is a major reason for some of the lacklustre results. Those of us who had a trained passable voice, don't notice much of a difference because the brain is "locked" into the same frequency, that is achievable pre and post op. Despite looking female, I used a male voice pre-op, because my low range made a trained voice practically impossible, and I'd rather been seen as a very feminine guy, rather than a crossdresser, unpassable "->-bleeped-<-", etc (I know, internalized transphobia; I'm working on it ).

I think it helped that I speak more than one language, and I've had to learn to speak different versions of English in different accents, using different local colloquialisms, which made me more conscious of my voice, intonation, pitch, etc. I can see it being more difficult to break old habits if one only speaks one version of one language, and that's probably why both Dr. Kim at Yeson and Dr. Haben have a disclaimer that a passable voice requires voice training post-op.

In my case, I've just had to learn to relax my voice, and adjust my larynx to adjust the resonance of my voice. Currently I have to push it low, but that's because my voice gives out faster otherwise.

Roni, I think you'll be in good hands, and you have nothing to fear. Just follow the aftercare instructions and wait for the awesomeness of an effortless, passable voice, that will be hoarse and weak for a while.

I'm very happy for you, Runaway! Your results so far sound great. I noticed some adhesion from my larynx to the skin on my neck too. It thankfully went away on it's own. I didn't realize that there were specific steps I should be doing to help break it up! Your incision is coming along nicely! Are you using anything on it?

Nothing critical from me at this time. Your report is about 2 1/2 weeks and at that point I could barely speak. Even now your voice is holding out far longer that mine is at three months. I am still about a minute before my voice give out and you did the entire recording with little change. The pitch sounds good and while you voice could use a bit more inflection, that will come as you gain more control over it. After all, you have only been using the voice for less than two weeks. Even now the voice clearly genders female. My trained voice after surgery ranges from about 160 hz to around 430 hz so expect more range as the voice continues to heal.
I am very impressed with the voice sample and will wait to hear one after your voice has recovered more.

Thanks Cadence, you sound awesome too! I hope my adhesion resolves regardless, cos I'd hate to go under the knife again.

I haven't used anything on my scar so far, because Dr. Haben instructed me not to use anything on it until a month has passed from the date of the operation. After which I can use any combination of scar-removal gels, strips, lotions, etc. I would have thought moisturizer would be ok, but Dr. Haben said no when I asked. My scar is actually more red than it looks in the photo, cos my camera's white balance washed it out.

Still looks good so far though! I have notice one side of the scar has more adhesion, and that's the side that hadn't healed as well when the stitches were removed. Perhaps the adhesion detatches on its own as the wound heals? I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

Dena, thanks for the feedback! I could go down to 160hz a week ago, but my lowest possible pitch has been gradually increasing. Some mornings when I've just woken up, had some warm tea and cleared my throat, my comfortable pitch goes up to 230-240hz, and my lowest pitch becomes 190hz.

I'm so psyched to be unable to sound male even if I wanted to, but it's caused some awkwardness when I've had to answer phone calls.

Quote from: runaway on October 05, 2015, 07:57:36 PM
HUGE UPDATE!!

I'm sorry I've been missing in action for the past week, but I was too tired and drugged out to keep up with school work while in Rochester, so I had a lot of catching up to do when I got back.

First off: My first recording! http://vocaroo.com/i/s0OZXHUGEhDl
Note: Sorry about the quality and the constant clipping of the recording..not sure why that happened. My voice sounds a bit nasal cos my nose was a bit blocked when I made the recording.

There's gonna be some repetition below of what I've discussed in my recording, for those of you who can't listen to it at the moment, or don't wanna sit through the whole recording.

Pitch
My lowest, comfortable, and highest non-falsetto pitch hasn't changed much, and varies slightly depending on how much I've used it before, which usually drops my pitch about 10-15hz. This is probably due to swelling and accumulated phlegm, and it the pitch goes back up once I've had some time to recover.

Vocal Range
My non-falsetto range has actually increased! Prior to my triple procedure, my lowest pitch was about 90hz, and the highest about 190hz, about a 100hz range. Now it's 180hz to 330hz, about a 150hz range, which equates to a 50% increase! I can sing along with most female singers now, albeit very softly in an very breathy voice.

Passability
100%!!!! Ever since I started using it on the 8th day post-op, it's been completely passable, and it's only improved since. Despite my pushing my pitch lower initially due to the laryngitis and later on due to my mental block, it sounds female, and this includes coughing, sighing, clearing my throat, etc. While I could reach 180hz before and after, the other qualities of my voice has been feminized. Instead of bassy undertones, I now have sibilant overtones. This makes sense, since female vocal folds are shorter, thinner and tighter, and Dr. Haben's triple procedure does exactly that. I just sound like a woman recovering from a bad cold.

Incision scar
The scar looks good, and has been slowly fading. However, I have adhesion to my thyroid cartilage, which apparently is not uncommon with any surgical incision. It looks fine, but my skin is pulled up when I swallow. Dr. Haben has instructed me to massage it for 20 minutes 3 times a day with a hot towel in addition to neck rotation and shoulder stretching exercises to break up the adhesion.

Photo:


And that's it for now! I hope this helps those of you on the fence to decide. Personally, I have no regrets whatsoever, and I'm completely satisfied with the results, even though my voice hasn't even fully recovered yet.

You sound very feminine, congrats! Your recovery has been so fast! During your recovery, did you find your voice voluntarily goes into falsetto at times?

Hey Jollyjoy,

I did actually, but it's subsided a lot since then! There're three possible reasons I can think of:

1) It was caused by the swelling, which has gone done since

2) I had to use my vocal muscles differently, and I've now gotten used to my new voice.

3) Pre-op I could only reach much of my present range by going into falsetto. Due to bone conduction of my voice, my brain thinks it's falsetto because of the pitch, even though it might not be.

I've asked a number of friends if my voice goes into a falsetto, and they've assured me that it doesn't, and that it actually sounds good, hoarseness and breathiness aside.

As for my recovery, I've always had a high metabolism with no health problems, so I generally heal a little faster than average. I don't smoke either, and I only drink on occasion in social settings, which probably doesn't hurt.

I've used the recovery period as an excuse to have more meat in my diet, and I've also been sleeping as much as possible.

 For what it's worth, I also noticed my muscle contracting into a falsetto type voice when attempting to speak about a week and a half after surgery. I wouldn't call it falsetto so much as a screeching cracking disaster. Lol Eventually, I re-learned to push my larynx down until it healed some more. Now I hold my larynx and hyoid together to achieve a voice that I can comfortably hold, and that I like.