Hey y'all, I have a quick question for you guys. I recently went to a really nice hat shop in San Francisco and noticed the guy who attended to me was trans. It wasn't that he didn't pass, it was little things that I only notice because I'm trans and know what guys look like with binders and sound like after being on T for a while.
So here's my dilemma: I wanted to be friendly and ask him about trans stuff, mostly because he was about the same age as me, but didn't want to ruin his day by clocking him. So I'll refer to the question in the subject of this thread, are y'all comfortable talking openly about trans stuff? How would you prefer someone like myself bring up trans stuff to you? Would you prefer a random stranger not do so? I'm relatively friendly, and enjoy meeting new people, but I kinda worry about being too invasive about a topic I used to hate talking about publicly.
So... thoughts, feelings, opinions? I ended up smiling and thanking him for his help but leaving afterward wishing I had bombarded him with questions, despite his being at work. Sigh...


     Hugs,
- Katie
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I would never ask someone about their status - since I have no idea how much of an issue it is for them I would prefer they told me of their own accord. They may be busting a gut for me to ask, but I doubt it. I wouldn't like it if someone I didn't know asked me out of the blue, especially if I was feeling really good about myself and the way I looked on that day - I wouldn't be devastated but my ego would take some serious bruising. The simplest thing would be to out yourself as part of the interaction. Say  to them - "oh, by the way I'm trans and might have some trouble finding the right size hat for my head... (for example, I don't even know if this applies to you or not!!)" - that way you haven't suggested you know/think they are trans and if they are trans and want to come out to you they will.

I like that, subtlety hasn't always been my strong suit, but I'll definitely keep that in mind.


     Hugs,
- Katie
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I personally wouldn't like it at all if someone started prying into my status in anyway. I probably wouldn't say anything about me being a trans even if the other party did. It's part of my medical history which means it's not other people's business and not meant to be aired out in the public. Someone suspects I'm trans? Cool, good for you. Now keep it to yourself.

That... did come off somewhat aggressive which really wasn't my intention. I just feel strongly about my privacy regarding this subject. I don't identify as a trans man, I'm a man with medical history which happens to include transsexualism diagnosis.

Quote from: Tossu-sama on October 12, 2015, 06:01:27 AM
I personally wouldn't like it at all if someone started prying into my status in anyway. I probably wouldn't say anything about me being a trans even if the other party did. It's part of my medical history which means it's not other people's business and not meant to be aired out in the public. Someone suspects I'm trans? Cool, good for you. Now keep it to yourself.

That... did come off somewhat aggressive which really wasn't my intention. I just feel strongly about my privacy regarding this subject. I don't identify as a trans man, I'm a man with medical history which happens to include transsexualism diagnosis.

This is why I avoided saying anything. But part of me feels like I missed out on making a new friend with so many things in common with me. But just because I feel isolated at times, doesn't mean I can assume that they'd be happy about becoming acquainted. I'd honestly be happier about it if I had privately said to him, "I'm trans too, and you look great," winked at him and left it at that.
We seriously need a secret handshake or something so we can surreptitiously know and identify the other members of our trans family. I don't think it's healthy to be so afraid and alone all the time. And I wish I had more trans friends...
So I guess maybe the question should be, what's the least offensive way for me to try to connect with another trans person that I run into IRL. "Just don't" isn't an answer I like :-/


     Hugs,
- Katie
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You could try to be friends with him without touching the trans subject. And maybe after some time you could disclose your status to him. You know, hive him the opportunity, if he ever feel like it, he'll open up to you.

Just don't pressure the subject on him and don't get upset if he never mentions the fact of being trans. I bet you can become friends without having to come out to each other right away.

Quote from: MicheleGui on October 12, 2015, 06:53:44 AM
You could try to be friends with him without touching the trans subject. And maybe after some time you could disclose your status to him. You know, hive him the opportunity, if he ever feel like it, he'll open up to you.

Just don't pressure the subject on him and don't get upset if he ever mentions the fact of being trans. I bet you can become friends without having to come out to each other right away.

I don't know, I already have a lot of friends I can't really talk to about trans stuff. I'd rather be very straightforward and open. It's kinda how I best deal with being trans. Not that I have too many friends to have more. Nor would I only value a trans friend IRL for their trans-ness. While I get that my "Hi I'm trans, deal with it" approach is somewhat confrontational, but I really don't want to waste my free time befriending someone if my being trans is an issue for them. Maybe I could have just said to him "I'm buying this new hat because my hair has always been a frustrating cause of my dysphoria and I'd like another style to choose from when I'm having a bad hair day." It's pretty intensely personal, but by outing myself like this he would have the option to say something or not.


     Hugs,
- Katie
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Leaving it up to him is definitely the best approach. Especially because, well, he might not be trans at all. Knowing trans people is always cool, and being able to talk about your experiences is great, but some people are stealth and would like to stay that way. I'm stealth, and while three of my good friends are trans guys, I'm only out to one of them (and that's because we went to the same trans support group for a few months). Even when it's trans people asking, I have no interest in telling them I'm trans. Like Tossu said, I'm just a guy with a medical condition, and while some people are perfectly happy talking to others about it, I'm not. If the hat shop guy is trans and wants to discuss it with you, rad! If not, it's better to leave it open-ended on his part than to bombard him.

Lets be akward for a moment
then hug
then smile
then go do stuff you or I enjoy

I will try to keep it unspoken but i'm a very honest person so every question you ask me, you get an answer.

In a storesituation tho:
Smile
Pay for what you bought
so... wanna chill?
wait for reaction

even if someone is trans came up to me and said they were trans, i wouldn't disclose that i was. i'm stealth in my every day life (college, work, etc.) and i only disclose when i'm going to a doctor/dating someone/sleeping with someone, etc. if someone came up to me and said they knew i was trans too, i'd actually be put off. i'd feel like i wasn't passing even though i'm over a year on T, have facial hair, and had surgery. i'd feel really dysphoric after that. you could just be his friend in a normal way without trying to get on about being trans then eventually drop a hint, or disclose it to him and see where it goes from there.

Quote from: Ms GraceSay  to them - "oh, by the way I'm trans and might have some trouble finding the right size hat for my head... (for example, I don't even know if this applies to you or not!!)" - that way you haven't suggested you know/think they are trans and if they are trans and want to come out to you they will.

This.

As far as I'm concerned, it's the only acceptable way to handle this. There are a lot of reasons not to out a stranger, especially in a work situation -- basic courtesy is at that top of the list. More than that, consider the possibility that he may not be out to his employer and co-workers; you could be creating serious problems for him if you out him in his workplace.

Not unless there is an open invitation to speak about it and in a more private setting, or in some kind of trans-specific setting, I'm not sure who would be comfortable having someone "recognize" that they are trans out there and start talking about it. Personally I don't think I would want to talk of it with a complete stranger in a public setting where I would be on guard anyways. Maybe some people would and I'm just not that kind of person.

I've noticed one or two trans people who are apparently super rare where I am, and although I feel a slight urge toward them because they're like me, I never ask them about it. For one thing any hint might be picked up on by others who are not trans and it might out them. A big no no. For another they might already be stressed and to have someone notice might cause them to think they do not pass, even if we trans people can recognize the signs others might not see so easily. If a trans person came to me for help out there or something it might be a different matter but I wouldn't approach anybody. It isn't really any of my business, just because I am trans too... I know some may disagree but it's about a private matter as it gets and not what I would consider a comfortable ice breaker.

I was in the GIC last week and if some other FTM or MTF has decided to approach me there, fine. That is a safe setting where we all 'know' anyway and there's no chance of harming anybody's discretion there if I speak about the subject. But in everyday places I would be very careful.   

The good news is that there are places like this where we can ask as many questions as we want and help each other out, without that problem.

Quote from: T.K.G.W. on October 12, 2015, 11:38:58 AM
Not unless there is an open invitation to speak about it and in a more private setting, or in some kind of trans-specific setting, I'm not sure who would be comfortable having someone "recognize" that they are trans out there and start talking about it. Personally I don't think I would want to talk of it with a complete stranger in a public setting where I would be on guard anyways. Maybe some people would and I'm just not that kind of person.

I've noticed one or two trans people who are apparently super rare where I am, and although I feel a slight urge toward them because they're like me, I never ask them about it. For one thing any hint might be picked up on by others who are not trans and it might out them. A big no no. For another they might already be stressed and to have someone notice might cause them to think they do not pass, even if we trans people can recognize the signs others might not see so easily. If a trans person came to me for help out there or something it might be a different matter but I wouldn't approach anybody. It isn't really any of my business, just because I am trans too... I know some may disagree but it's about a private matter as it gets and not what I would consider a comfortable ice breaker.

I was in the GIC last week and if some other FTM or MTF has decided to approach me there, fine. That is a safe setting where we all 'know' anyway and there's no chance of harming anybody's discretion there if I speak about the subject. But in everyday places I would be very careful.   

The good news is that there are places like this where we can ask as many questions as we want and help each other out, without that problem.

I don't know, being trans shouldn't be the same as being in AA. It just makes me sad to think that I can never approach IRL another person who is trans like myself for fear of disrupting their anonymity. Contextually, yes he was at work, but by himself, we were alone together in the shop. I would never out someone to other people, that's just not cool. This is why I partly seriously think we need a secret handshake...


     Hugs,
- Katie
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Quote from: Tysilio on October 12, 2015, 11:18:41 AM
This.

As far as I'm concerned, it's the only acceptable way to handle this. There are a lot of reasons not to out a stranger, especially in a work situation -- basic courtesy is at that top of the list. More than that, consider the possibility that he may not be out to his employer and co-workers; you could be creating serious problems for him if you out him in his workplace.

We were alone together in the somewhat small boutique, easily being run by him without help. I wouldn't out someone to other people, it's seriously not cool.


     Hugs,
- Katie
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Quote from: invisiblemonsters on October 12, 2015, 09:10:17 AM
even if someone is trans came up to me and said they were trans, i wouldn't disclose that i was. i'm stealth in my every day life (college, work, etc.) and i only disclose when i'm going to a doctor/dating someone/sleeping with someone, etc. if someone came up to me and said they knew i was trans too, i'd actually be put off. i'd feel like i wasn't passing even though i'm over a year on T, have facial hair, and had surgery. i'd feel really dysphoric after that. you could just be his friend in a normal way without trying to get on about being trans then eventually drop a hint, or disclose it to him and see where it goes from there.

I pass well, but I want to find other people that are trans positive. I don't particularly want to give up the chance to instantly bond with someone about one of the most important and influential aspects of my life. I know exactly how hard, frustrating and expensive being trans and passing can be. It's normal to bond over shared experiences. It's normal to talk about the things you've done recently but I don't because so much of it either has to do with transition or trans related things. I go to school, but it's barely half of my focus. I want to find more friends I can be 100% me with and not filter everything trans out. Yes I'm also uncomfortable talking about my stuff with people who aren't trans. This is why I want IRL trans fellowship similar to the gay community. If we can't have something like this in San Francisco, where the heck can we?


     Hugs,
- Katie
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Quote from: veniamviam on October 12, 2015, 07:39:26 AM
Leaving it up to him is definitely the best approach. Especially because, well, he might not be trans at all. Knowing trans people is always cool, and being able to talk about your experiences is great, but some people are stealth and would like to stay that way. I'm stealth, and while three of my good friends are trans guys, I'm only out to one of them (and that's because we went to the same trans support group for a few months). Even when it's trans people asking, I have no interest in telling them I'm trans. Like Tossu said, I'm just a guy with a medical condition, and while some people are perfectly happy talking to others about it, I'm not. If the hat shop guy is trans and wants to discuss it with you, rad! If not, it's better to leave it open-ended on his part than to bombard him.

True he might not be trans, and I could just have been mistaken, I thought of that. But what if he thought the exact same things as me, but out of courtesy said nothing? I'd never actually bombard someone about being trans and stuff. I guess I'm just frustrated that we're always so afraid of upsetting each other that we are content being invisible.


     Hugs,
- Katie
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It depends for me on 2 things - where we are and how you bring it up.

If we're at a place where it isn't out of the norm to be trans, cool. I've had people start discussions with me at the doctor's office (it's an LGBTQ clinic). Pride events, other community gatherings, also cool. I figure if I'm putting myself in that situation, I've given up a certain degree of stealth. Obviously you can't be 100% sure how someone identifies, but I would be pretty open to it from one trans person to another since it is much more likely that we'll figure each other out. I would not be so warm if you were not trans.

And I really like the way Ms. Grace came up with to broach the subject. If you're going to essentially ask for any kind of confirmation as to someone else's trans status, I think the good faith move is to put yourself out there first.

Privately.

I'm generally okay to talk about stuff.  That said... I've made some mistakes in thinking that I've clocked transgender people.  Whether a person is actually cisgender or transgender, being read as transgender can be horribly devastating.  I'm more offended by this reaction of devastation than anything, to be honest; I perceive it to be awfully transphobic.

So, like Ms Grace said, I might mention that I'm trans if I can find a relevant reason to work it into the conversation.  But only say it once!  They'll get the message if they're trans, and if not, they probably won't think anything of it.

I very much agree with what Grace said.  Outing yourself, if it is private enough, is the way to go and has worked well for me.  If the other person does not say they are, I just drop it.