Hi Deborah and thank you for sharing your experience with me.  Glad for you that you feel much better now.  i am getting an idea what to expect if i go on HRT thanks to you and others.  Have a great day.

Quote from: Oliviah on October 18, 2015, 09:51:01 AM

I am concerned about with both the tone and content a bit of your posts. 

I think many who sit forever suffering on a fence wondering if they arre trans have a fundamentally wrong understanding of what being a woman is or means.

Being a woman isn't boobs.  It isn't mental instability.   It isn't emotional irrationism.

It isn't endless passive aggressive antagonism or needy attention seeking.

Chose to be happy.  Or choose to make someone else happy.  Find what makes you happy.

Live your truth.

Hard truths are what they are.

The sooner you accept them the better.  Not only for you but your partner.

Don't waste her life if in your heart you can't give her what will make her happy.

That is women don't have that male privilege

Wow, what a condescending reply.  i have no idea what you are on about.
Being woman isn't boobs eh, you really straightened me out there.
Don't waste my wife's life? Are you freaking serious? You don't know me lady.
FYI i have not spent forever sitting on the fence wondering if i am trans,
that has only materialized in the last few years and the reason i post here
is to get a better idea of myself and where i am heading using the experiences
of others as guideposts, so as not to be sitting on the fence for much longer.
You don't like my tone?  i don't like your arrogance and don't bother trying to
explain that i misunderstood you, because i am hearing you loud and clear.

Quote from: lindagrl on October 18, 2015, 11:17:06 AM
Wow, what a condescending reply.  i have no idea what you are on about.
Being woman isn't boobs eh, you really straightened me out there.
Don't waste my wife's life? Are you freaking serious? You don't know me lady.
FYI i have not spent forever sitting on the fence wondering if i am trans,
that has only materialized in the last few years and the reason i post here
is to get a better idea of myself and where i am heading using the experiences
of others as guideposts, so as not to be sitting on the fence for much longer.
You don't like my tone?  i don't like your arrogance and don't bother trying to
explain that i misunderstood you, because i am hearing you loud and clear.

I simply took issue with your characteristic of what it means to be a woman.   Whiney is not a feminine characteristic. 

The ->-bleeped-<- is sometimes helpful sometimes destructive.

The trans narrative must move beyond sad closeted victimhood and the superficial.

I so understand fear and depression.   

I have both fear and depression.


I am sorry I was condescending.   We all have our own triggers.

Mine is relating feminine as traits such as whiney or superficial.

Cause it isn't .

Quote from: Oliviah on October 18, 2015, 11:36:56 AM
I simply took issue with your characteristic of what it means to be a woman.   Whiney is not a feminine characteristic. 

The ->-bleeped-<- is sometimes helpful sometimes destructive.

The trans narrative must move beyond sad closeted victimhood and the superficial.

I so understand fear and depression.   

I have both fear and depression.


I am sorry I was condescending.   We all have our own triggers.

Mine is relating feminine as traits such as whiney or superficial.

Cause it isn't .

Maybe the trans narrative needs to this or to that, i have no opinion on that, but i reserve the right
to approach what i am going through in my own way and i won't have anyone tell me how i can communicate
my thoughts and feelings and how i cannot.  i will not be boxed up,  superficially categorized and dealt with.
This is the point i am making.

i was talking about what a former gf said to me among other things, a pointless ramble really because i know
what was her game, she said what she thought would hurt me to try and trigger a reaction.  She had a very black and white view of what a woman or a man is, i did not say that i shared her view, i don't but perhaps at that young age i too had a too simplistic a view of the sexes based on how i was raised.

Now that that's cleared up, i accept your apology and apologize in return for being overly abrasive.

Quote from: lindagrl on October 18, 2015, 12:01:03 PM
Maybe the trans narrative needs to this or to that, i have no opinion on that, but i reserve the right
to approach what i am going through in my own way and i won't have anyone tell me how i can communicate
my thoughts and feelings and how i cannot.  i will not be boxed up,  superficially categorized and dealt with.
This is the point i am making.

i was talking about what a former gf said to me among other things, a pointless ramble really because i know
what was her game, she said what she thought would hurt me to try and trigger a reaction.  She had a very black and white view of what a woman or a man is, i did not say that i shared her view, i don't but perhaps at that young age i too had a too simplistic a view of the sexes based on how i was raised.

Now that that's cleared up, i accept your apology and apologize in return for being overly abrasive.

Don't make things so complicated.

Are you transgender?

If yes can you and your partner be happy if you are an open and out transgender person?

If the answer is no then your relationship harms you both and wastes each others time.

It really is just that simple.

Quote from: Oliviah on October 18, 2015, 12:28:26 PM

Don't make things so complicated.

Are you transgender?

If yes can you and your partner be happy if you are an open and out transgender person?

If the answer is no then your relationship harms you both and wastes each others time.

It really is just that simple.

This really sums it up.

lindagirl, Oliviah is offering you some sound advice (that is what you came here for, isn't it?). You seem to be unnecessarily combative in this discussion.

I tend to agree with Oliviah, the tone of your posts suggests that your gender issues may only be a part of what's bugging you. If I were your therapist I'd want to deal with your anger issues concurrently with your gender dysphoria, or perhaps even beforehand.

I know it's hard to separate your relationship issues from your gender issues, but a little compartmentalization might help you make sense of these things. As long as you are so angry you won't be able to make any useful decisions about your gender issues.

Quote from: Michelle-G on October 18, 2015, 12:57:38 PM
This really sums it up.

lindagirl, Oliviah is offering you some sound advice (that is what you came here for, isn't it?). You seem to be unnecessarily combative in this discussion.

I tend to agree with Oliviah, the tone of your posts suggests that your gender issues may only be a part of what's bugging you. If I were your therapist I'd want to deal with your anger issues concurrently with your gender dysphoria, or perhaps even beforehand.

I know it's hard to separate your relationship issues from your gender issues, but a little compartmentalization might help you make sense of these things. As long as you are so angry you won't be able to make any useful decisions about your gender issues.

Michelle, my wife is supportive however this will go.  It's presumptuous to pretend to know what makes us tick as a couple and throwing that out there is of no help to me.  Yes, i have anger issues and i have been working on them with some success, but i also stand up for myself when someone wants to tell me what i am all about without knowing it. That's insulting and deserves an appropriate response.  i submit that there is a danger of further along trans folks being patronizing to those taking their first steps.  Maybe i got it wrong, but then it was clumsily written.  i'm a friendly sort unless rubbed the wrong way and i won't have it turned back on me and justified by pointing to anger issues. That will not fly. 
Quoting Oliviah: "The trans narrative must move beyond sad closeted victimhood and the superficial."
Such is the talk of one who seems to want everyone in the same mold.  i reject that.  i am not a victim and am not
superficial but reserve the right to act that way if it pleases me without getting harassed for it.
It's as simple as that.

There are no relationship issues apart from wife not wanting me to have surgery.  Maybe she will change her mind later, maybe not, it's not crucial at this point anyway.

Am i trans?  i honestly don't know 100% yet, i think so yes. 
i have had doubts, but then again so have many here.
i am finding it out as i go, it's the best i can do for now.
No of course i won't start HRT unless i have become sure.
Do i have other issues as well?  Oh yes and i'm guessing so do we all.

i appreciate that you mean to help and some of your points are useful.

I also would like to apologize for being unnecessarily combative, and being patronizing.

It is just the question of if you are trans answers itself.  If you were not you would not be here.  You wouldn't question it. Cis people don't have these thoughts.   That you have them is evidence enough.

The question is where on the spectrum you fall and if your partner is ok with you doing what you need to do to be your authentic self.

Surgery isn't for everyone.

What is important is that you don't live in shame.

Quote from: lindagrl on October 18, 2015, 02:05:46 PM
It's presumptuous to pretend to know what makes us tick as a couple and throwing that out there is of no help to me. 

I have no idea what makes you tick as a couple, and I didn't imply that I did. I only know what you show us in your posts. From the outside looking in it looks more problematic than perhaps you realize.

Quote from: lindagrl on October 18, 2015, 02:05:46 PM
Michelle, my wife is supportive however this will go. 

Excellent! Then you have a reason to celebrate. I suggest you capitalize on this relationship strength as you move forward.

Quote from: lindagrl on October 18, 2015, 02:05:46 PM
Maybe i got it wrong, but then it was clumsily written.  i'm a friendly sort unless rubbed the wrong way and i won't have it turned back on me and justified by pointing to anger issues. That will not fly. 

Nobody's justifying anything or turning anything back on you. "Clumsily written" may be an accurate description, but again, we only know what you show.

Quote from: lindagrl on October 18, 2015, 02:05:46 PM
Quoting Oliviah: "The trans narrative must move beyond sad closeted victimhood and the superficial."

Such is the talk of one who seems to want everyone in the same mold.  i reject that.  i am not a victim and am not superficial but reserve the right to act that way if it pleases me without getting harassed for it.

Oliviah has a good point, and one that I hope you will see as you progress on your journey. This is not "the talk of one who seems to want everyone in the same mold". It's the talk of one who has seen this movie before and knows the plot all too well. She sees what I see.

The sooner you disengage from the anger and victimhood the sooner you can begin a productive transition (if that's the path you choose). And if you do choose this path, I think you'll find the journey to be rewarding, interesting and full of personal growth and discovery. But if you're going to enjoy the trip pack light and learn to leave some of that excess baggage behind.

Alright, truce Oliviah.  We both went further than we should have, alas we are human.

Now we are talking, the fact that i sought this place out tells a story, that's an excellent point i had not considered.
If i come out as transgender i will do that without shame. i've been out more or less for a couple of years without having a meeting about it. i dress in a unisex way when out and about but am feminine.  i get looks, some nice some not nice and i've gotten used to it, it doesn't bother me anymore and there my wife has been most helpful in keeping me grounded as to what and who matters.  My concern is mainly with our 11 year old son, he will be teased by some and i don't want to cause him any problems.  He is fine with this change and supportive as long as he does not lose his dad entirely.
Yes, which side of the spectrum i am on is the question i guess.  i will tell you when i find it out.
Have a good one

Best post I have read all day!

i didn't mean clumsily written by me Michelle.  Yes you justified by changing the subject to my anger issues, deny it all you want though. 
i cannot be any clearer, i do not consider myself a victim so stop it with that eh.
i have had issues with the trans program here and rightfully so but nothing that can't be put right.

Perhaps we will never agree and that's fine.  You and Oliviah have found one way that works for you,
it is not the only way and may not suit everyone and as Oliviah pointed out in her latest reply we are
not all on the same place on the spectrum.

Alright truce Michelle lol
i am not easy, i know it, but am working on it