The U.K gender reform petition has been running a while now and I think we now have to take action and put our money where our mouth is and do something about the horrendous way patients are treated by the NHS and Charing Cross GIC alike. I've also received and witnessed information on several suicide attemps from Charing Cross GIC patients.

I've been informed that Charing Cross GIC may now be under investigation by the GMC and Healthcare Commission but is it enough? They should be closed down and re-opened with a whole new structured system where patients will be seen and treated within a reasonable timescale. At the moment there is no treatment program or opportunities to access one and some patients can be 'stuck' at a clinic like Charing Cross GIC anything up to 10 years without treatment.

I was a patient at Charing Cross GIC for nearly 7 years and in that time they didn't facilitate any form of treatment. We estimated by talking to my PCT (Health Authority) that they lost in an excess of £17,000 from 2001 - 2007 for my invisible treatment and the money was fleeced to line Charing Cross pockets. During that time I had to run my own parellel treatment and start my hormone treatment privately as Charing Cross GIC refused hormone treatment. They also refused various referrals including a referral for GRS yet I fully complied with the HBSOC and also lived more than 5 years RLT in a female role.

Since moving on from Charing Cross GIC in January 2007 I have been working on my own. I have achieved far more in 6 months than I did in 6 years at Charing Cross GIC. Along with my GP we have now created our own treatment program and I have alrerady accessed both an appointment for breast augmentation and FFS. Charing Cross GIC continue to insist these proceedure's are not part of a gender change and contradict everything laid out by the HBSOC protocols.

I'd like to hear from anyone who has similar experiences of Charing Cross GIC or similar clinics in the U.K.

Kimberliegh

http://www.petitiononline.com/nhsgidsp/petition.html



Posted on: November 12, 2007, 11:27:37 AM

---

Petition Testimonials....mostly disatisfaction with Charing Cross GIC.

The NHS made me want to commit suicide, if i didnt have a loving partner i would have. i hate the NHS loath digusted sickened by the way my gps then charing cross dealt with me they are sick in the head... if you dont like it go private i did. (http://www.transhealth.co.uk/) and that saved my life... full stop the end the end the end (the Nhs are sick) Lucy Maund

I Support this petition 100\%. The care available to tg girls is diabolical, and thats being kind! We wouldn't treat our animals the way we are treated by CXH. Very long waits for appointments (4 years for my 1st appoinmtment). The fact that CXH is the ONLY clinic in the UK is seriously not good enough. I have to travel 350 miles each way everytime I have an appointment. That means taking time off work and spending a fortune on fuel. There are no facilities on the nhs for Facial hair removal which is a necessity for a tg to be able to change full time. We have to pay for everything. What the bloody hell is my national insurance being taken out of my wages every week for! I thought it was for NHS CARE! From what I have experienced with CXH it is NHS Dont Care! CXH has shattered my confidence which it took me a very long time to build. I don't know if I can ever get it back. The whole system need a major overhaul. Rachel Nicholas

I endorse this petition 100\%. Charring Cross is unhelpful, manipulative and offers a very poor and predjudiced service. G. P. Andrew Smith

From my personal experience, Charing Cross GIC perpetuates misery and makes competent individuals feel disempowered. Gerry Small

the present system tears families apart close down CX and reopen it along patient centred lines with new management and clinicians. Stacey Widdison

spent six years trying to get to GIC! Only now have appointment for Jan 2007!
Adrian Dalton

got fed up waiting for treatment from CXH and went private to get hormones. I am unable in my present financial position able to pay for surgery. I finally got a first appointment at CXH in Jan 2007, 2 years after starting the process. We deserve better treatment than this, if you don't hassle CXH then they ignore you. Patients shouldn't have to constantly pressure CX to be able to get an appointment date. Jack Hallett

After having Being "treated" by Charring Cross GIC for over a year, I now feel that my only option is to go Private and work every hour of the bloody day to pay for it. I feel it is a real shame as my GP has been superb and it is only the rigid and punitive policies of the C.C. GIC that have driven me to this decision. When HM GOVT were talking about a more patient centred and flexible NHS, certain people clearly had their heads in the sand - or more likely somewhere else! Jennifer

The treatment of transgendered people in this country is diabolical. They should be treated by doctors and not as psychiatric patients. Transgendered people know more about this than the 'experts' they are seeing. This country needs to stop treating transgendered people as 3rd class citizens and treat them with the respect and dignity they deserve. Paul Hughes

I have to say the same about the standards of care...They stink...long overdue an overhaul, we get treated like idiots (even though we probably know more than good OLD Mr Green, Mr Montgomery just likes to offend to the point of distressing his patients).......And from what i have seen of Charing cross Hospital and it's dirty toilets (wish i had a camera that day!!!....also latex gloves laying in a corridor), i'm in 2 minds whether the place is clean enough to have Major surgery!!!.....Please, Please, Please do something about this diabolical situation, Before anymore girls decide to end their lives because of neglect and distress..... Miss Tamzin Beauchamp

Dr. Montgomery is an interrogator who demonstrates limited knowledge in some areas and Dr Barrett's attitude is dictatorial and quite bizarre in some of his ideas. Caroline Monroe

I have a supportive GP practice but chose to go privately because of my age.Other m2f firnds have experienced repeated cancelled appts at CHX. I have also witnessed at first hand the way a patientis greeted in the waiting room there. I wouldn't speak to my dog like that. Jan Scobey

I was on CHX's books from 1988 to 1998-with no resolution of my condition. I was able eventually in 2003 to get my surgery after coming into some family money-this FIFTEEN years after first going to CHX. There may be a new building but there are the same old faces, same old 1960's attitudes and it needs to be brought into the 21st Century. Years of lost records, cancelled appointments and an out of sight out of mind attitude have made me sign this petition. Any way I can be of help I will. Gemma Handford

How long will it take before the NHS finally realise that we have a genuine problem that requires attention & not to be pushed to one side. please allow me to quote a few words from a friend who visited Charring Cross the other day. "I had my appointment yesterday at charring cross and they have shattered everything that i have been working to .they were rude overbearing and controling in a god like way taking no consideration to individual circumstances". Andrea Logan

I wonder what the solution to this might be. I have met some of the docs from there. They are very knowledgeable, but yes, arrogant is a word that comes to mind. A thought would be in changing the directorship. I'm not sure what the oversight body is, a board of directors or supervisors? It is unthinkable to have a LGB health organization without LGBs on it's governing board and many on it's staff. Are there transpeople on the governing board or staff of Charing Cross? I doubt it. This might be a starting point to change attitudes there.
An idea.
Namaste, Taraftp://

Solution: total flushout of the system... replaces all the staff, doctors, and operation practice, re write the book, and THEN build a treatment system... probably privately run but nhs funded...
R

Quote from: Rachael on December 14, 2007, 02:24:34 PM
Solution: total flushout of the system... replaces all the staff, doctors, and operation practice, re write the book, and THEN build a treatment system... probably privately run but nhs funded...
R

That is exactely the plan Rachael.

Posted on: December 15, 2007, 06:52:10 AM

---

Quote from: Tara on December 14, 2007, 12:35:54 PM
I wonder what the solution to this might be. I have met some of the docs from there. They are very knowledgeable, but yes, arrogant is a word that comes to mind. A thought would be in changing the directorship. I'm not sure what the oversight body is, a board of directors or supervisors? It is unthinkable to have a LGB health organization without LGBs on it's governing board and many on it's staff. Are there transpeople on the governing board or staff of Charing Cross? I doubt it. This might be a starting point to change attitudes there.
An idea.
Namaste, Taraftp://

From my own experience I haven't found any of the psychiatrists at Charing Cross GIC 'knowledgeable'. Quite to opposite in fact and 12 months at 'The royal college of psychiatrists' isn't enough or the right training to deal with patients with gender dysphoria.
Of course they wouldn't allow a transsexual to be a part of their system because that sole person would have experience.

I'm so pleased that I'm no longer in that U.K 'gender clinic loop' but I've now found it is possible to access NHS treatment without attending any form of gender clinic. I wasted over 6 years with Charing Cross GIC who during that time period made ever possible attemp to avoid providing me with any treatment.

could it be that the waiting list for HRT and surgery is just long and that's why it takes years?

no, they mess you around in the meanwhile....
i have to wait 5 more years to SEE a therapsist... THEN a few to get on hrt, and do rlt, then the standard wait in my area is 23 years for surgery from referal... in reality, because so many go private, or commit suicide, its 6 more years instead of that.... as they only refer TWO people a year...
R

The problem with the NHS is the same problem with most gender clinics worldwide,
when treatment protocols change, they don't adapt because they're insular and
dogmatic. They build they're whole system on an idea and if the underpinning
changes, well they don't see it and continue along their merry way.
They're also ultra bureaucratic and paternalistic. They believe they know more
about TS than a TS, even if the issue has scarcely been studied in any
many meaningful way. TS knowing all this lie to them to feed their delusion just
to get through the system; this doesn't help them change their delusion. They
prefer it to reality anyway. The Toronto Gender clinic is the same. The Montreal
one is better, but its nothing to write home about.

hmm only two patients referred a year? yeah, that's pretty bad. i was thinking of the free drug abuse treatment system here which a patient waits in line for 2 years before treatment because the waiting list is long and they can only treat a certain number at a time.
but, yeah yours sounds rather messed up.

thats two to surgery....
theres even less and longer waiting lists to just get seen... so many die waiting... and they dont consider it live saving
R

I would like to pose a view here, even though I do not agree with it.

No insurance or with insurance because TS isnt a covered condition:

In the US it is possible to start theraphy ($95USD a session twice a month)
2 Months later Get refferal to a Endo, and blood testing (Total around $800.00USD)
Prescriptions for Spiro and Estrogen ($100 each)
(recurring blood work at $800 a pop)
Real Life test (1 year) With 24 Therapist visits, however ongoing
FFS surgery (10kUSD-20KUSD)
Breast Augmentation ($7500USD plus expenses)
(Trip to psycholigist $100-$200USD for SRS approval letter)
SRS ($20kUSD Canada)

Here in the US yes we have instant treatment, but in Canada and the UK you have Socialized Free Treatment.

Personally I would rather Transition in the US and pay all that money, but I would rather have my arm break in the UK, and live as a fully transistioned individual in canada or the UK.

Here in the US a TS who has had SRS and is insured can break thier arm and have insurance deny them pain medication or even worse deny them fixing the broken arm because of thier gender status!!! The NHS and Canada will not tell a person with a broken arm we cant help you, and you dont have to pay a $1k,2k,3k,5k DEDUCTABLE for treatment, on top of the monthly $100plus in insurance!!!

Quote from: maragirlygirr on December 16, 2007, 04:37:07 AM
I would like to pose a view here, even though I do not agree with it.

No insurance or with insurance because TS isnt a covered condition:

In the US it is possible to start theraphy ($95USD a session twice a month)
2 Months later Get refferal to a Endo, and blood testing (Total around $800.00USD)
Prescriptions for Spiro and Estrogen ($100 each)
(recurring blood work at $800 a pop)
Real Life test (1 year) With 24 Therapist visits, however ongoing
FFS surgery (10kUSD-20KUSD)
Breast Augmentation ($7500USD plus expenses)
(Trip to psycholigist $100-$200USD for SRS approval letter)
SRS ($20kUSD Canada)

Thats quite a price...

in the uK its worse....

you have to start therapy,
THEN RLT
for a YEAR
THEN you get hrt... wtf?
if you go private here, the only PRIVATE shrink, charges £200 a session, yep, thats right, Dr Curtis, a Transman himself, who should know better... $400 a session...
hrt isnt THAT epxensive on the nhs... £12 a month or so...
and you left out electro/ laser... its still an awesome figure though

though i managed to get hrt on the nhs, because of my intersex condition, its seen as corrective... for some reason its differnet?
regardless, this is utter bull... and i doubt it will change... the hoops people here are forced through are retarded....

theres one gic ive heard of, that resets your RLE if you wear trousers... wtf?
R

Socialized systems are not so nice either. Here are some comparisons from the local (Finland) system.

Quote from: maragirlygirr on December 16, 2007, 04:37:07 AM
In the US it is possible to start theraphy ($95USD a session twice a month)

We don't have therapy (except if one pays for it). The GIC tries to find something else
wrong with us for 6 months and if they fail we get diagnosed.

Quote
2 Months later Get refferal to a Endo, and blood testing (Total around $800.00USD)

We have less blood tests (would cost ~$500 @ private).

Quote
Prescriptions for Spiro and Estrogen ($100 each)

How do you get those meds so expensive? With a little bit of effort it should be trivial to get them cheaper - like
"HRT Meds from walmart for $4 w/o insurance".

With the socialized system I pay $75/month for HRT.

Quote
(recurring blood work at $800 a pop)

We just omit that. Blood tests which would cost $100 in private once per year.

Quote
Real Life test (1 year) With 24 Therapist visits, however ongoing

RLT is here also the same length.

Quote
FFS surgery (10kUSD-20KUSD)
Breast Augmentation ($7500USD plus expenses)

These are not normally covered by the system.

Quote
(Trip to psycholigist $100-$200USD for SRS approval letter)
SRS ($20kUSD Canada)

Here we can get SRS from the system after 1-2 years after RLT has been completed.
But the quality is lower than thai surgeons which costs $8k there.

Yeah you all have some seriously good points, oh and before I get bashed on.

Most all of my figures are off my head, I only think there as accurate as I know them, so please dont bash me, I am just trying to get comparisions here roughly.  positive input if you dont mind, not quoteing me and saying how wrong I am, just state your expieriences, thanks


That is so messed up RLT before HRT. WTF? Anarchy in the UK. LOL

ive said it before... and ill say it again... the UK GIC system makes ->-bleeped-<-s, not men or women...
R

LOL, sorry I dont mean to laugh its not funny, but it was worded funny.


My greatest point though is with no insurance in the US you break your arm You are screwed, in the UK they just fix you for FREE, kinda I mean you all pay like what 40% of your paychecks for it, but it just isnt a worry, whether you are employed or not.

My current plan since I have no job (Got Fired for being TS!!!), and no insurance is If I get hurt, put me in my piece of crap car, and I will put it into a wall cause my auto insurance will pay for it!!!

its not free... we pay taxes for it...
we pay national insurance... same as yours, just flatrate, and low..R
R

Quote from: maragirlygirr on December 16, 2007, 09:05:34 AM
LOL, sorry I dont mean to laugh its not funny, but it was worded funny.


My greatest point though is with no insurance in the US you break your arm You are screwed, in the UK they just fix you for FREE, kinda I mean you all pay like what 40% of your paychecks for it, but it just isnt a worry, whether you are employed or not.

My current plan since I have no job (Got Fired for being TS!!!), and no insurance is If I get hurt, put me in my piece of crap car, and I will put it into a wall cause my auto insurance will pay for it!!!

yep. the good ol US of A bends over backwards to help other nations, tons of immigrants get all kinds of frills - free loans, no taxes, etc. But She treats her OWN citizens like ->-bleeped-<-.

The problem is not with the UK health sustem. I think public health is much more efficient at providing health care than private one. This is a special case. Gender clinics are small clinks in a system that is otherwise woking. Too bad the small clinks is a big deal for us, but not for anybody else.

Quote from: Rachael on December 16, 2007, 06:24:14 AM
Thats quite a price...

in the uK its worse....

you have to start therapy,
THEN RLT
for a YEAR
THEN you get hrt... wtf?
if you go private here, the only PRIVATE shrink, charges £200 a session, yep, thats right, Dr Curtis, a Transman himself, who should know better... $400 a session...
hrt isnt THAT epxensive on the nhs... £12 a month or so...
and you left out electro/ laser... its still an awesome figure though

though i managed to get hrt on the nhs, because of my intersex condition, its seen as corrective... for some reason its differnet?
regardless, this is utter bull... and i doubt it will change... the hoops people here are forced through are retarded....

theres one gic ive heard of, that resets your RLE if you wear trousers... wtf?
R

That's not my experience at all. I attended a London NHS Gender clinic for 2 years from 2001 to 2003 and still got continually refused HRT. So in the end I had no choice than to go private (cost £200) and got the HRT prescription at the appointment the same afternoon......so it was still good value compared to 2 years of fighting with the NHS...

I also have an intersexed condition which the London NHS gender clinic were made aware of and have been living a RLT for 5 years (backed up by full documentation etc) yet the London NHS Gender clinic still refused to give me a referral for SRS....

I have now taken legal steps against them as they have deliberately avoided helping me with my treatment.....

Since leaving the London NHS Gender clinic I have had far more success and have secured referrals on my own for FFS and Breast augmentation still through the NHS, so as Keira rightly says the NHS is not the problem on it's own but the Gender Clinic system is the problem.....

were you mutilated at birth? that could be the difference in our treatment..
R