I'd like to pose a question for this audience - How do you move past tolerance toward acceptance?  I came out to my wife over a year ago.  While she is tolerant and even supportive (she has even helped me with sizing), she maintains that she will not be able to accept me as anything less than the "man" she married.  She is so accepting of everyone, but not me.  I feel like I (Holly) am a threat to her.  She wants no part of the person I want to be, in fact, she doesn't think she needs to.  Yes, we talk about it and I am grateful for that, but I feel like I'm still living a double life.  I can't come out to the rest of the world without her in my corner.  She is - STILL - my best friend.  I want and would be happy with a BFF, she wants a husband.  Therapist says take my time, its not a race; but in all truth it IS a race and I have a lot of catching up to do.  Its just getting overwhelming.   What's a girl to do???
Holly

Can I put this from your wife's point of view?

She wanted a man in her life, she finds out that she has a women, she loves you as a person but your gender is not compatible with her preference.

I'm amazed at times  that a transgender woman who married a cis female  would expect the cis female to accept her into open arms.

Why should our partners change their sexuality to accomodate us?

^This. The sexuality aspect can be a big thing and it can be difficult (or impossible) to overcome. But can I also offer some insight into female psychology from the perspective of someone who went through the entire nightmare gamut of female socialisation whilst growing up?

This is a generalisation and of course there are exceptions to this rule (and goodness me, it sounds very old-fashioned!), but as a general rule: women can be viciously competitive towards one another and they do not tend to get along with each other in a domestic setting.

A husband (or indeed, a wife) is not a person: it's a role played by a person. She has allocated space in her life for the role of husband to be filled, and she wants to fill the role of wife... but she's probably never wanted to entertain the idea of another woman having equal status (and importance!) to her in her own home. If she's hetero, the very idea may be especially abhorrent to her - let alone the sexual aspect of it. It's possible that she's seeing her role as being threatened by having another woman in the same house as her, particularly if she's used to being in charge of that house.

Think about situations where the mother-in-law comes to stay: very often the two women often don't get along, because in many cases both are used to being in charge of domestic matters in their home so they each try to run things their way. This causes friction and they wind up butting heads. Or think about how biological mothers tend to perceive step-mothers: many see them as trying to usurp their position in the kids' lives, and very often both women are hyper-critical of each other. These are oversimplifications and generalisations, but they do point towards the fact that many women can be fiercely protective of their position within their domestic setting and they'll feel threatened by having another woman directly competing with them.

So perhaps she's starting to see you as a competitor, rather than as her complement?

I call this the classic argument at least in my head. It is this and what my wife asked me recently. How would you feel if your wife told you she wanted to be male?  She wanted get rid of her breasts, to have a beard and a penis and for you to have gay male sex with her. I was waiting for my wife to ask that and she finally did. I told her I didn't know for sure, but that if the core of her didn't change, I would be okay with that. For me the beard is harder to take than the penis. I know. But I don't like hairiness. Sexuality is a funny area. My view is that the brain is quite flexible and we can activate areas we haven't used before and adapt. But when I say things like that to my wife, she just shakes her head and says I'm nuts. Maybe so. I have an acquaintance who says that because we have dealt with gender issues for so long, our acceptance and flexibility is quite different than the common in our society.

Cindy - Thanks for the response.  But this isn't an issue of sexuality (really, it isn't).  She can accept other people we know from everywhere on the spectrum (including one who has transitioned).  But she wants no part of me as the real me.  Ultimately I would like to live authentically full time, but can't get past the first hurdle.  I don't care what anyone else thinks, just her.  I mean, she doesn't want to meet Holly face to face, although she already has.  Does that make sense?  Feeling like I am babbling  -Holly

Good - It looks like I started something 
Thanks FTMDiaries and Genevie / also very good points.  My wife and I have always been really good BF's, the sex was always secondary to the intimacy we shared.  At nearly 30 yrs, it isn't a big part of our relationship.  This is what I find so troubling.  If I had to guess how she would have reacted when I came out I thought it would be "Go for it, bring it on".  It been more like "Bring it to the curb".  I am just flummoxed. 

Whoa!  Now my head is spinning.  FTMDairies, you said competitor...  THAT makes sense on one level anyway.  I have always been more of a homemaker than her and do most of the cooking.  It has always been a area she feels intimidated.  So now I am going to be more feminine?  This is making sense - Maybe my competition makes her more the more masculine one?  Can't WAIT to share this with therapist.

THANK YOU ALL!!!  Mind=Blown
Love this site!  Holly

Quote from: HollyP on October 23, 2015, 10:18:24 AM
FTMDairies, you said competitor...  THAT makes sense on one level anyway.  I have always been more of a homemaker than her and do most of the cooking.  It has always been a area she feels intimidated.  So now I am going to be more feminine?  This is making sense - Maybe my competition makes her more the more masculine one?  Can't WAIT to share this with therapist.

Yay!

Glad I've given you another avenue to explore. If I'm correct, perhaps your therapist might be able to help you find ways to make your wife feel less threatened. You're going to need to redefine your relationship going forward, so you'll need to agree to new boundaries if she's to feel that she isn't being undermined or forced into a role she doesn't want.

Good luck!

Quote from: genevie on October 23, 2015, 10:01:51 AMHow would you feel if your wife told you she wanted to be male?  She wanted get rid of her breasts, to have a beard and a penis and for you to have gay male sex with her. I was waiting for my wife to ask that and she finally did.

Ya know, I have wondered if this would come up with my wife as well, and fortunately it hasn't yet.

My response though is this.  I have always been an effeminate man in her eyes, and I have acted downright girly in private before (or when tipsy, lol).  So she's been accepting of my feminine side for years.  And I was attracted to her for her feminine side.  If she had been trans all along herself, she would have undoubtedly displayed some kind of masculine tendencies over the years, and either I'd have adapted, or I'd have never married her.  So if she had displayed these qualities, I would likely have an easier time accepting her desire to transition since I'd already be in that mindset.

Truth be told, if she did come out now though, I don't know what I'd say.  I obviously would want her to be happy.  If nothing else, my transition has taught me that people need to be happy in order to live their lives, not just exist.  And I also want GRS myself, so having a penis in the house would be nice, lol.  I can't kiss people with beards though, it skeeves me out. 

Quote from: HollyP on October 23, 2015, 10:03:13 AM
Cindy - Thanks for the response.  But this isn't an issue of sexuality (really, it isn't).  She can accept other people we know from everywhere on the spectrum (including one who has transitioned).  But she wants no part of me as the real me.  Ultimately I would like to live authentically full time, but can't get past the first hurdle.  I don't care what anyone else thinks, just her.  I mean, she doesn't want to meet Holly face to face, although she already has.  Does that make sense?  Feeling like I am babbling  -Holly

I would say that you need to start preparing to separate and divorce.  Or a least let her know that Holly is you, and that if she can't accept you than you don't have a true relationship.

Interesting dilemmas for we who are, and want to stay, married to cisgender partners.  My darling spouse helped me to realize I needed to deal with it in the first place and was totally supportive to begin with.  That is not sustainable for most people as the reality vs the hypothetical possibilities is really unknown.  Transition comes with no guarantees for the outcome and the costs.  It takes a great deal of effort and honesty.  I love not having to hide who I really am but I am also somewhat obsessive about transition and have learned to not go trans talk 24/7.  She needs breaks and it is healthy for us to maintain our full life of interests IMO. 

As my transition has progressed I developed significantly greater confidence and more independence in many respects.  Initially it can be surprising even shocking for our spouses and some are just not going to tolerate, much less accept us, as a woman.  Heck, I shock myself sometimes with the woman I have become.  Me with lipstick?  As Jim I did not kiss anyone wearing the stuff!

I thought since both of us are bisexual and she has known about my crossdressing and more for years that it would be easier.  Her orientation does not, however, mean I would be just her kind of girl and in fact, i'm not.  She married a guy she was attracted to and he's gone.  She is transitioning too.  Our connections are deep and after 40+ years we are still married and mostly happy with each other.  I doubt she will ever be able to see me as "just a woman" and why should she?  Can we really expect our wives to forget the person they loved enough to marry and lived with as a man for years?

I found it very easy to let my male persona go.  What a huge relief.  What freedom. 

Our wives, in contrast, may grieve terribly for the loss of someone (or at least the image) they loved.  If we are fortunate they may be willing to learn to love the person we become.  It takes time to adjust and I am grateful we have made it this far.  I would like to think we will remain together and work out the curves that come with life. 

The past is gone, the future a dream, we have this one day to make a difference.  Love long and well.

Wow Team Susan.  This is some great dialog and THANK YOU ALL!  You are giving a lot of avenues to think on going forward.  In order:
Tessa James - Yes I forget some people will miss the man that I am decommissioning.  And they do need a break from me talking about it, whereas I can give them a filibuster.
Oliviah - (sigh) I am preparing, I see the possibility, but I also have batteries and bottled for the next hurricane - It doesn't mean I want one.  Prepare for the worst but hope for the best.  But stay strong, too!
KristinaM - And don't forget to pack your sense of humor, you will need it! 

Again - Thank you all! I'll keep you posted, Holly