Being MTF and a lesbian puts me in an awkward situation, many women view me as "A man in disguise"/infiltrator others have no problem with me.

I recently attempted to join a local lesbian social group (they will remain nameless) and revived the following reply:

Greetings Sarah.

I'm ######, coordinator of ######. Thanks for your honest application.

We respect the broader LGBTI community. Every LGBTI person deserves respect and a space in the world. Some groups such as "Sunshine Coast Rainbow Network" are shared space and embrace all that diversity. SCRN is an excellent group run by Fi Anderson, and I'm a member of that group too, as are a number of our ###### members. However we are indeed diverse, so each component group has a separate space in the LGBTI title. Each component group also deserves individual and separate space that reflects and respects their difference, and allows people to define, live and express their differing identities. Equal but different.

So, with respect, I'm declining your membership. I've been oppressed as a woman and as a lesbian, and I appreciate that the Trans community also faces difficulties, including some uniquely challenging ones, in claiming equal space in the world. Our spaces overlap within the broader LGBTI community, however I hope that you'll understand and respect the separate "L" space that is #####.

As is stated on the ###### membership page:

"###### is an autonomous lesbian group. While we support the broader LGBTQI (lesbian, gay, bi, trans and intersex community), ###### caters specifically for the "L" component of the acronym. If your interests and commitments lie with the broader community, check out "Sunshine Coast Rainbow Network" it's excellent."

I'm genuinely sorry that sometimes different componant LGBTI group's needs just don't match up. So please do join the "Sunshine Coast Rainbow Network", and we'll have the chance to meet, and to interact in the SCRN Facebook group.

Regards,
######
###### Coordinator


I feel let down and that I have been judged for being honest when I could have easily lied.
I'm already a member of the rainbow network but wanted somewhere I could talk with people of the same sexuality, not just the gender diverse.

What do you think?

"Equal but different". Interesting that almost those very same words, "separate but equal" were used benignly to describe the egregious system of racial segregation in America in the first half of the 20th century.

What do I think? I think it's a bunch of TERF bigots. I almost wished you hadn't blanked out the organization name, because they deserve to be called out for the bigots they are.

Thanks Suzi, I wasn't sure if I was being touchy or easily offended.
I actually feel a bit sad for the woman who wrote to me. It sounds like she has had some terrible experiences in the past.
I don't think that is an adequate reason to deny my membership though but I don't know what I can do about it, apart from write to her or take the matter up with her peers in the LGBTIQA community.

Maybe tell her that while you are T you are also L. If she can't figure that out then maybe she should P.O.

Thank you Grace, that's a good one

I have started writing a reply to my letter of rejection and would appreciate your views.

Hello #####,
Thank you for replying to my membership request.

I am disappointed that my membership has been rejected simply on the grounds that while I am L I also happen to be T.

As you wrote: "I've been oppressed as a woman and as a lesbian". I can now tell you that I know how that feels.

I will respect your decision and withdraw my request as I would not want to be part of a group that discriminates against women who have to fight the world just to be themselves.

I do hope your group becomes more accepting in future.

Sarah

Brava, Sarah! Excellent rebuttal.

I think you nailed it![emoji106]


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Sarah,

Not all groups are like the one that you tried to join.  I belong to several lesbian meetup groups that are accepting of trans women.  I have met some wonderful women who accept and include me.  Don't give up.

Lori

I dont like labels in the slightest. But i guess people would like to call me a trans lesbian too. I am not atracted to men in the slightest.

I guess it is a little hypocritical of some cis lesbians to discriminate when they know better than the average folks that genitals do not define a persons gender. 

Sarah your comeback was supreme. Thank you for standing up for all of us les trans girls xxx

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This issue has no easy answer.  There is also no right or wrong that applies to the whole. 

That is to say not everyone who identifies as a trans lesbian would be a good fit, and not all women feel comfortable being in such a group with someone who has a penis. 

That is understandable.

I think it would be nice if the group had the resources and desire to be inclusive and conduct a one on one interview to determine who is appropriate, but I do understand that isn't always possible.

When to fight to be included in female space is tricky.  There is no one answer.

Mod edit TOS 9 and 10

Sarah,

I think your reply is spot on. It is a shame that they are transphobic and it sounds like TERF speech in a formal form coming from them.

I'm a member of several Lesbian groups (like Lesbians Who Tech) and had never had an issues being trans. I don't go out of way and advertise that I am transgender, but I've seen a lot of trans women at their functions and their website says that they are trans inclusive. I've never seen a lesbian group on my area not open to transgender women.

I'm also a member of many Women only groups in technology and again no issues there either. There are several trans members of "Girls Who Code" and again no issues.

Quote from: Sarah82 on October 29, 2015, 07:38:26 AM
Thank you Grace, that's a good one

I have started writing a reply to my letter of rejection and would appreciate your views.

Hello #####,
Thank you for replying to my membership request.

I am disappointed that my membership has been rejected simply on the grounds that while I am L I also happen to be T.

As you wrote: "I've been oppressed as a woman and as a lesbian". I can now tell you that I know how that feels.

I will respect your decision and withdraw my request as I would not want to be part of a group that discriminates against women who have to fight the world just to be themselves.

I do hope your group becomes more accepting in future.

Sarah

I personally would add two things:
-being transgender has biological connections, to do with brain development before birth.
So its literally a womans brain. There are studies showing that.

-its understandable some people might have triggers towards male people . But you are not male, you identify as female, and behave as such. It might be possible to look at individuals and give people a chance.

I'm sorry you had to go through that, Sarah. These situations suck, because on one hand you don't want to be in a group where you're not welcome, but at the same time if you do nothing about it you let them maintain their bigotry. Now, I wonder how many members actually agree with what this person told you...

  Thread is unlocked after cleanup. Please keep in mind TOS 5,9,10 and 15 when making a post as this can be a sensitive subject. Any further issues and the thread will be locked and remain locked 

She wants you to respect that in her eyes you are not female. It's her choice to think that, but she certainly does not deserve respect.