Quote from: anjaq on November 13, 2015, 03:26:37 AM
To get invisible scars takes several things: luck, a body that scars without ugliness, a skilled surgeon and great aftercare. I have seen people having had a trach shave in the past couple of years and that scar is a bigger mark than the adams apple before, IMO. I personally would not want to risk it, as I can see with other scars on my body, that this is not pretty. the only scars that are really nice are from GRS, but that is a part of the body that always heals more nicely.

Agreed. I am not fair complexion. A scar would be extremely obvious and ugly on me.

I think for me best bet is Haben doing the minimally invasive procedure.. since I don't have that deep a voice.

Keri

Something you should do if you haven't already is visit Dr Haben's web page before you decide.
http://www.professionalvoice.org/feminization.aspx

Quote from: Keri - formerly known as Dodie on November 13, 2015, 03:50:08 PM
I think for me best bet is Haben doing the minimally invasive procedure.. since I don't have that deep a voice.

Keri

Deep voice or not it doesn't really matter.

Glottoplasty works for all kinds of voices.

Hey girls..
I have been on Haben's site and read everything trying to get a firm understanding of where I am.
I am two notes below middle C in my male voice.
Its obvious I have not trained my voice well enough.. most likely because it gets me by in person with everyone so far.. However on the phone I always get clocked.

I want to do the Glottoplasty with Haben.. seems the least invasive and I only need a few notes higher to achieve the pitch I want.. then the rest is up to me..
I am scheduling with him for April 2016 a couple months after my GRS..
Wish me luck..
Keri

If your pitch is really that high, you are where you need to be and therapy is what will prevent you from getting clocked on the phone. Dr Haben was targeting 190 Hz for my voice but it appears I may fall in around 210Hz at the end of healing. Most older women are lower than middle C and by older, I mean not teenaged. You can have a very high voice but if you use male speech patterns you will sound male. Some people have returned from Dr Haben sounding like this and we helped them with the feminine speech pattern. I am providing two links. The first will tell you where your voice should be and the second is my thread. You don't need to read my thread but there are voice samples of my voice pre and post surgical on the end. I still haven't trained with the new voice because it isn't healed enough but all samples are using my trained voice instead of my chest voice.
http://www.nyspeechandvoicelab.net/transgender/voice-feminization/
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?action=post;topic=198865.20;last_msg=1770601

Quote from: Keri - formerly known as Dodie on November 14, 2015, 12:05:47 PM
I am two notes below middle C in my male voice.

I want to do the Glottoplasty with Haben..

If that first statement is true, you are dead in the female voice range. You do NOT need glottoplasty or any VFS in that case. Maybe you can try "laser tuning" which can give you 1 or 2 notes, but really - two notes below C4 would be A4 and that is higher than where I am now post OP. If you have that pitch and still are gendered male, it is almost certain that something else is off - resonance, speech patterns, intonations, voice melody,... you should try to get a trans experienced voice therapist and get a couple of sessions. Usually with voice training for these other parameters, average pitch automatically goes up by 1-2 notes without additional training for pitch. There are some who also do Skype sessions.

Seriously - consider it. Get someone to properly analyze your voice - maybe even Dr Haben - or some speech therapist. And then if your voice really is in the female pitch range as you now say it is, just work on these other parameters first, many of those are also improving y post OP voice if you later decide to do a surgery.

Surgery is not like buying coffee - it is expensive, takes a loooong time to heal, bears some risks, does some permanent damage to the voice that needs to be trained out and makes some things more complicated in the future (like intubations - if intubations in further surgeries or in emergencies are done without knowing and caring about the glottoplasty, they can destroy your voice). Why take all of that if you already have a female pitch?

Using a piano I did it again and appear to be below middle C and between G and A on the scale.. It appears to put me out of male range and very close to female already. No wonder I used to get mam'd over the years..

I wish I knew of a speech therapist in OKC that works with trans people.. I am going to start searching.. sounds like It may be a waist of time to do VFS
Keri

G and A are not "close to female", they are absolutely female range and not even in the real gender ambiguos range anymore.


actually A is the "average" for american female voices AFAIK. So of course, there are men in that pitch range stillm but its all about the other voice parameters.

If you cannot find a voice therapist nearby, there are some who do Skype sessions...

Post a recording... anything else we say is just a guess. You can delete it soon after if you want.

Quote from: iKate on November 14, 2015, 08:34:08 PM
Post a recording... anything else we say is just a guess. You can delete it soon after if you want.

I agree with iKate, but if you're not comfortable with that you could also read the praat tutorial and find the average yourself. It's always better to take an actual measurement than to make a rough guess. 

Ok Girls..
This is the most serious I have been about my voice.. so I am so sorry to be such a pain in the butt ..
However I so value you help and want you to know that.

So I downloaded a pitch analyzer and have been talking like I would in public.. say ordering a meal or going through a drive through.

I talk in an EFG range..with my voice with no effort..

Low talk range can be C D which is pretty low.
My range is low C3 high is B3

So that is it in a nutshell.. I think my biggest issue is resonance and speech.. Its so hard to learn however I suppose instead of surgery maybe I should just get someone to help me with it..
Many people think I have a sexy voice as a woman.. LOL 
I will post me talking sometime but I get easily embarrassed ..
I am most definitely in the gender ambiguous range.. that makes me feel like there is hope.

Keri

Keri, I did the Yeson thing last January and am very happy with it, but to be completely honest, I gained just as much from seeing a voice therapist who works exclusively with trans people.  I've had 20 visits with her and spent about 2 grand, and beyond her helping me recover from surgery and build my vocal strength, I have learned how to speak in a way that is female and very appropriate for my gender.  If I had to do it again, I would have seen her first, and then decided. 

FYI, I've been living stealthily for almost 30 years, and my voice was the only thing that ever got me clocked in the past, and that usually only happened on the phone.

Just getting a higher voice but not changing how you use it won't deliver you the results you hope for.  Voice therapy will cut months off your recovery if you eventually have surgery, and you will benefit from it either way.

If that is your natural voice, Therapy should easily put you into the feminine range. The trick is to tighten the muscles above your larynx when you speak. Put your hand on your upper neck and swallow. That is more or less what it should feel like if you do it right. At first is will be a bit of a strain however over time you won't think about it. I need to do that all the time because my surgical voice still isn't high enough without a trained voice. That was my only tool until surgery.

Don't worry about being a pain, that is what we are here for. I believed in minimal surgery to the body and if I can prevent an unneeded surgery, I am happy. On the other hand, if somebody wants surgery, I want them to have it for the right reason. That's why I push voice work before surgery so much. You need to know exactly what you need and exactly what you will get before going for surgery. Should you decide latter that a trained voice isn't working, you will know why and what to do about it.

Quote from: Keri - formerly known as Dodie on November 15, 2015, 11:58:56 AM
I talk in an EFG range..with my voice with no effort..

Low talk range can be C D which is pretty low.
My range is low C3 high is B3

Well, thats basically where my voice is now, too, post OP.

I think you should do fine in that range, I hope you can find a great voice therapist who can help you to feminize your voice from that on. You are very lucky to not be in that A2-C3 range that I had before the surgery

Ok.
Thank you everyone for the help.. My ex's boyfriend was just over and he laughed when I said I was thinking about surgery.. he said omg you have a sexy voice and lots of men will like it.
So I am good.. Ill spent the money on something else... like windows for my house.. LOL