Here's just some stuff I wanted to say on this topic, hopefully some advice. Listening to it, I do realize my voice has been dipping a bit lower than I'd like it to, but then when I'm around friends or family or those that know I'm trans, I don't have a problem dipping a bit lower because well.. it's just more comfortable, lol. Passability has been my main concern and focus, and like I mention in my recording, there is going to be a ceiling where it becomes both difficult to maintain and leaves you with nowhere else to go, even if it does sound more feminine.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0fhXLOlLJtt

Also, I don't think I mentioned it but my timeline was something like this... Three months in I was passable, and four months in I went full-time and this is where I just wanted to be mute. But I occasionally mustered up a brief but 'passable-ish' voice, mostly ordering food or something. Five or six months into my transition, I used it more and about eight months in I had it down pretty well and felt comfortable enough speaking in public as I normally would. I haven't really done much to try to improve it since then except for trying to be consistent with it. If you find something that can work or that you can work with, stick with it! Otherwise your voice won't physically change and it will remain hard to do and you may also find it harder to identify your new range if you jump in and out of it.

Quote from: iKate on November 20, 2015, 03:04:38 PM
Rainbow passage, about 2 months:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1yb4AnA3CJM

Free talking about 3 months post op:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1ZqDvZL8uQR

My (horrible) attempt at singing a few days ago. But my consolation is that I couldn't sing very well pre op anyway:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0Awgskkknbo

I'm about 4.5 months post op now and I sound even better. I can make a new recording soon.

This is what I used to sound like:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1ZS7zGTO6IM

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you sound soooo good!!!

Quote from: Lagertha on November 20, 2015, 08:05:55 PM
Just for info... Realistic price for glottoplasty procedure is between 1500-2000€ in Europe, and between $2000-3000 in US. There are more than 100 ENT doctors in Europe alone, who did the training and do this procedure on a regular basis. The number in US must be about similar. So there aren't just two or three doctors who do this. But there are two doctors who promote themselves very well, and thanks to youtube and websites like this, they are known in the online trans "community". Which is why they are able to charge $7,000 or $8,000, because there are people who are willing to pay them. It's a simple, very straightforward procedure, and if you go to your nearest city and nearest ENT doctor who specializes in phonosurgery, it's likely he/she had done hundreds of this surgeries, or they can give you a contact to their colleague who had done so.

I'm a grad student on a small stipend and even $2-3k is outside of my budget until I get a real job sometime in the next few years. Besides my credit card is straining to pay for facial hair removal, clothes, and shoes I've only been transitioning for 6 months - I need to give vocal training more time before I consider something like VFS.

Quote from: Ashey on November 20, 2015, 08:25:40 PM
Here's just some stuff I wanted to say on this topic, hopefully some advice. Listening to it, I do realize my voice has been dipping a bit lower than I'd like it to, but then when I'm around friends or family or those that know I'm trans, I don't have a problem dipping a bit lower because well.. it's just more comfortable, lol. Passability has been my main concern and focus, and like I mention in my recording, there is going to be a ceiling where it becomes both difficult to maintain and leaves you with nowhere else to go, even if it does sound more feminine.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0fhXLOlLJtt

Also, I don't think I mentioned it but my timeline was something like this... Three months in I was passable, and four months in I went full-time and this is where I just wanted to be mute. But I occasionally mustered up a brief but 'passable-ish' voice, mostly ordering food or something. Five or six months into my transition, I used it more and about eight months in I had it down pretty well and felt comfortable enough speaking in public as I normally would. I haven't really done much to try to improve it since then except for trying to be consistent with it. If you find something that can work or that you can work with, stick with it! Otherwise your voice won't physically change and it will remain hard to do and you may also find it harder to identify your new range if you jump in and out of it.

Thank you for this so much! You are an inspiration to me big time. You have a beautiful voice now.

Quote from: Lagertha on November 20, 2015, 08:05:55 PM
Just for info... Realistic price for glottoplasty procedure is between 1500-2000€ in Europe, and between $2000-3000 in US. There are more than 100 ENT doctors in Europe alone, who did the training and do this procedure on a regular basis. The number in US must be about similar. So there aren't just two or three doctors who do this. But there are two doctors who promote themselves very well, and thanks to youtube and websites like this, they are known in the online trans "community". Which is why they are able to charge $7,000 or $8,000, because there are people who are willing to pay them. It's a simple, very straightforward procedure, and if you go to your nearest city and nearest ENT doctor who specializes in phonosurgery, it's likely he/she had done hundreds of this surgeries, or they can give you a contact to their colleague who had done so.

I'm not exactly sure who in the USA does this but I mean the same can be said of any surgery such as SRS but there are a few surgeons that people go to because they are known for good results.

That said Dr Haben isn't too expensive and he is in Syracuse NY so no overseas travel is necessary.

And yes the surgeon can charge $3000 but there is also hospital and anesthesia cost.

Quote from: RachelsMantra on November 20, 2015, 11:27:14 PM
Thank you for this so much! You are an inspiration to me big time. You have a beautiful voice now.

Aww thanks. I'm just hoping to help, because I've been there. It was a very discouraging thing for me just last year. I went on a trip with a friend, my first time just going full-time, and I passed fine visually.. but I didn't talk to anybody unless I was alone and absolutely had to, and I just kept it quiet and concise. So, I'm just glad I kept at it and worked on it. Especially now that the estrogen has warped my lil mind and made me a lot more talkative and social, lol. I think if I just stopped talking it would be difficult for me now.

I also made another recording, just touching on a few other points that may or may not be helpful.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0Xo98t4bjH2

I without a doubt consider my voice to be my weakest facet of my transision, I have watched and tried a dozen videos two or three voice training regiments and I even payed more than I could reasonably afford for voice lesson and have seen only the slightest improvement. I truly hate it and have to keep this post short or I will get myself into a self hateing rant over it. I am forced by my jobs to talk to people pretty much constantly, that said just about everyone from my doctor, to friends, to my therapist and random people I talk about it keep telling me my voice is not too bad.

I try and work on it, but when i am tired or upset or excited or talking to friends or family I have trouble keeping things up and always fall back into doing nothing or even pushing it deeper just to be heard. Its tough to sweetly and feminienly scream at a room full of talking people to find out who the heck ordered pizza.

Serena

Quote from: iKate on November 21, 2015, 12:22:11 AM
I'm not exactly sure who in the USA does this but I mean the same can be said of any surgery such as SRS but there are a few surgeons that people go to because they are known for good results.

That said Dr Haben isn't too expensive and he is in Syracuse NY so no overseas travel is necessary.

And yes the surgeon can charge $3000 but there is also hospital and anesthesia cost.

I'm shure there are at least 10 other ENT doctors in a NY area who are performing glottoplasty on a regular basis. Trans patients are less than 1% of patients who are treated by this procedure.

I meant $2000 - $3000 as a full price, anesthesia and all fees included, not just surgeons fee. Most ENT doctors who specialize in phonosurgery are in health care institutions, not in private business. They get paid monthly salary, not $2000 surgeons fee for every surgery done. It's basically free in Europe, because it's covered by insurance as androphonia treatment (speach therapy included). Everybody with decent insurance in US should also have it covered, because it's not trans-specific surgery. Because people don't know how common this procedure is (for the last 15 years), and don't even bother visiting the nearest phonosurgical specialist for a little info at least, I think they should watch youtube videos and fly to South Korea and pay them very well.

Right now my voice is my most hated feature. My voice is very deep (think James Earl Jones), so I try to limit my speaking when I am talking with strangers. There are times where I can raise my pitch to maybe a Katherine Hepburn level, but I am unable to get adequate volume. I am somewhat fortunate that I have a wicked surgical scar on my neck from a biopsy around 20 years ago. I can get away with blaming that for my voice, but I am still not happy with it.

Quote from: iKate on November 21, 2015, 12:22:11 AM
I'm not exactly sure who in the USA does this but I mean the same can be said of any surgery such as SRS but there are a few surgeons that people go to because they are known for good results.

That said Dr Haben isn't too expensive and he is in Syracuse NY so no overseas travel is necessary.

And yes the surgeon can charge $3000 but there is also hospital and anesthesia cost.

Hmm... I live less than two hours from Syracuse.

Quote from: Lagertha on November 21, 2015, 04:21:16 AM
I'm shure there are at least 10 other ENT doctors in a NY area who are performing glottoplasty on a regular basis. Trans patients are less than 1% of patients who are treated by this procedure.

I meant $2000 - $3000 as a full price, anesthesia and all fees included, not just surgeons fee. Most ENT doctors who specialize in phonosurgery are in health care institutions, not in private business. They get paid monthly salary, not $2000 surgeons fee for every surgery done. It's basically free in Europe, because it's covered by insurance as androphonia treatment (speach therapy included). Everybody with decent insurance in US should also have it covered, because it's not trans-specific surgery. Because people don't know how common this procedure is (for the last 15 years), and don't even bother visiting the nearest phonosurgical specialist for a little info at least, I think they should watch youtube videos and fly to South Korea and pay them very well.

What scared me about going to a local surgeon is someone I know who did go to a local surgeon in NYC and she sounds like almost all air now. They really screwed her up.

So yeah, the proven results did encourage me to fly to Korea and it all worked out in the end.

For me, I have one body, one voice and it's worth paying for a good, proven result.

Quote from: iKate on November 21, 2015, 06:38:02 AM
What scared me about going to a local surgeon is someone I know who did go to a local surgeon in NYC and she sounds like almost all air now. They really screwed her up.

So yeah, the proven results did encourage me to fly to Korea and it all worked out in the end.

For me, I have one body, one voice and it's worth paying for a good, proven result.

I met someone in person who went to Yeson, and she had completely messed up voice after surgery (one year post-op at the time). Which doesn't mean that most of Yeson patients end up with terrible result, in fact it's the opposite.

I went to consult a local ENT phonosurgical specialist (in a small city, 25-times smaller than NY)... He had done around 400 glottoplasty procedures in the past 7-8 years or so, on patients with various conditions. During consultation I had a chance to hear pre-op/post-op recordings of about 30 cis-female patients with androphonia, and 6 trans-female patients. I could hear many more examples from cis-female patients, but there really wasn't a need to hear more than I did. I heard different range of results, most of them were great, some of them were less so, but it was explained why and what was the condition and reason behind it.

You can't really pay for a good, proven result, because there are no guarantees with any surgery or with any surgeon. You pay for your expectations... which worked out fantastic for you, and good enough for most other Yeson patients. Some had been less lucky, but it happens with any glottoplasty procedure, even to the most experienced specialists. But it is usually because of pre-existing conditions, and any expert will make their patient aware of this, and related risks.

I would never consider having this procedure done by someone who doesn't have enough experience. But it is generally very safe and simple procedure, with expected results in most cases. 

Well that's pretty good to know. I hope more take advantage of such a widely available local option because most haven't heard of it. But maybe this can encourage more local surgeons to advertise that they do it.

But as I said, no regrets here.

As for insurance coverage, it does vary. It may be covered by some but some will deny coverage based on it being classified as plastic surgery. That may be changing though but as it is some don't even cover SRS.

Quote from: iKate on November 21, 2015, 07:38:36 AM
maybe this can encourage more local surgeons to advertise that they do it.

I think that's a good thing. Regardless if they raise the price along with it or not. The thing is, most ENT doctors who specialize in this really aren't in the private business, and most view this as a health care (which is not to be advertised, but available to those who need help).

Quote from: iKate on November 21, 2015, 07:43:22 AM
As for insurance coverage, it does vary. It may be covered by some but some will deny coverage based on it being classified as plastic surgery. That may be changing though but as it is some don't even cover SRS.

Yeson calls it plastic surgery. I think most specialists wouldn't call androphonia treatment elective plastic surgery. Correct classification might be the difference when it comes to insurance companies. If you classify it as an elective voice feminization surgery, I can see why most insurance companies wouldn't want to be a part of that. 

I'm a guy and isn't happy with my voice. Since I hasn't got voice change, I sound too childish or feminine. That's very annoying. I'm not happy with my look either. I'm pre-everything. But even I hate my voice, I talk a lot. It's because I think it's important to talk due social situation and school. I hate listening to my voice, but talking is so very important. All the other guys in my class has been in the voice change a while and I'm jealous at them. Some of them got hairs at their legs as well. But my legs are bald.

Quote from: Lagertha on November 21, 2015, 08:01:30 AM
I think that's a good thing. Regardless if they raise the price along with it or not. The thing is, most ENT doctors who specialize in this really aren't in the private business, and most view this as a health care (which is not to be advertised, but available to those who need help).

That would be the case in Europe but not here. Many if not most doctors operate independently but some are affiliated with hospitals and clinics. It is especially a problem with billing when determining who is in and out of network.

Health care is a booming business here and all sorts of surgery is prominently advertised here, including plastic surgery, bariatric for weight loss and even erectile dysfunction, abortion and other reproductive care. We have drug companies splattering ads for drugs all over prime time TV too.

QuoteYeson calls it plastic surgery. I think most specialists wouldn't call androphonia treatment elective plastic surgery. Correct classification might be the difference when it comes to insurance companies. If you classify it as an elective voice feminization surgery, I can see why most insurance companies wouldn't want to be a part of that.

Dr Kim actually wrote a comprehensive androphonia diagnosis on my medical certificate which I received when discharged, so that is incorrect.

Over here in the end it is the insurance companies and regulators who decide what is paid for and most insurers would classify it as elective cosmetic surgery, for now. There are really no regulations mandating coverage for transgender related surgery and the few guidelines that we do have only recommend hormones and SRS. Some insurers even have explicit exclusions for "gender or sex change procedures." Maybe in the future we can get that but based on the current legislative climate I doubt it would happen within the next year or two.

That said some companies are offering transition related health coverage as part of their efforts to support LGBT employees and to attract more diverse talent.

I get very frustrated with my voice my talking voice isn't the lowest, but still very man-like, and I can't seem to change it without sounding like mini mouse :-/
but what really makes me crazy is my singing voice, what is coming out of my mouth totally is mismatched from what I look like.
I was the singer in a band for years and sang with a deep gruff voice. I kinda retired for a while and I'm getting back into it, but I haven't found my voice yet. I replied on another thread here about someone who is hoping to get a great female singing voice, saying when I get depressed about it I just listen to Nico sing (she had a low deep voice), last night I was messing around in my studio and started playing "all tomorrows parties" and I think I may have found my voice lol

in all the work we put into a higher pitch, we have to remember, it's timber breath and inflection that make the voice sound male or female

now, if only my talking voice didn't sound  so manly

xox, Candi

My pitch ranges between 200-275 hz when speaking, and Pre transition I had a typical low male voice.  I haven't had any surgery, just some voice coaching, plus I transitioned in 2007, so the old voice has been completely replaced.

Surgery typically doesn't magically make your singing voice into a female one so that one you have to train for.

I think hormones do more for the voice than is currently accepted theory.

I have to agree with iKate, seems like it had a bit of an impact for me. However, I am still not fully satisfied with my speaking voice. However, I am just scared that if I do go under the knife that results may not be as good as what iKate got from her VFS in SKorea.

Here's a sample of my speaking voice:

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1EsTg4qru9G

Quote from: iKate on November 21, 2015, 12:28:56 PM
Surgery typically doesn't magically make your singing voice into a female one so that one you have to train for.

I think hormones do more for the voice than is currently accepted theory.