Today I had a (male) friend over. He knows where I´m at gender-wise.
We had dinner and chatted and I was just being myself, not trying very hard to be anything except just me.

When he was about to go home, he asked if I was still o.k with hugging and I said yes, but what ensued was rather weird (for me) because I realized I did not give a very masculine hug. It was probably rather girly. Uh-oh! Nothing wrong with that, but I´d really like to be more of a brotherly friend.

I was socialized as a woman for so long, some things just happen naturally before I can even double check. And now I´m thinking there´s probably a lot of male behaviors that I´m not getting right, especially in interaction with other men.

Anyone got advice for me? Like how to behave around other men? I´m pre-T and it´s going to stay like that for a while, but I would like to start learning now.

In my experience a "hug" is usually like a handshake in which both guys grasp each other's hand in pull in closer and use the other arm to pat once on the back.... If that made sense lol

As for other behaviors, ones I can think of off the top of my head anyways:

-the head nod. When you see other male and acknowledge each other, you give one head nod, usually moving head up instead of down

-fist bump... Self explanatory

-handshakes. Always grasp the other hand firmly but not trying to crush their hand

-walk with your center of gravity in your shoulders, not your hips. (Don't "glide" as in swaying your hips)

-just act natural, but try not to feel intimidated. It will show. Confidence is key, even if you have to fake it. Other guys respect confidence

Observe others. You'll pick it up quickly.

I don't like being in physical contact with people very much so I don't do a lot of hugging or handshaking. Except with my S.O. I don't even much like hugging my relatives. Not sure where that aversion comes from.

Quote from: AeroZeppelin92 on November 23, 2015, 04:52:13 PM
-walk with your center of gravity in your shoulders, not your hips. (Don't "glide" as in swaying your hips)

... huh.  So I've *always* walked in a more typically female way?  That's really strange to me, because I consider my gliding walk to be a hunter's stride since my eyes stay at a fixed distance from the ground.

Anyway, on hugging: you'll find a huge variation in how guys hug.  I think the brohug is a fairly new cultural innovation, like many homophobic elements of our culture.

A little while back, a cis guy friend and I were hugging, and he gave me some feedback: "Great man hug! The backslapping is really important, and if you can break a few ribs, that's even better."  A regular, both-arms hug is fine, apparently, as long as the backslaps are solid.

The last time I got a brohug or something was couple years back from my fiancée's brother and he was drunk. xD After that it's always been handshakes.

Luckily I live in a socially awkward country where one's personal space is a big thing so I don't really have to deal with too much physical contact like that. I don't like it.

This is some advice I give to the girls, but I think it is as equally as valid for the guys.

Spending some time sitting in a shopping mall or another place where guys interact with friends and just quietly observing how guys treat each other, friends or people they do not know, and how they interact with women, is time well spent.

We have been socialised (usually) opposite to our true gender and it takes time and work to learn how people of our affirmed gender interact with each other and members of the opposite gender.

One I love  is how guys will wait with an utterly bored look (with a tinge of embarrassment) as their female SO goes shopping for clothes, particularly lingerie, and this interaction of 'yes bro I don't know how I put up with it' attitude.

Handshake; guys accept another mans full hand and firmly but gently grip and a quick but slow shake, looking into their colleagues eyes and saying something like 'nice to meet you'. Guys just about just touch the fingers of a womans' hand and very gently, saying something like 'lovely to meet you' while smiling warmly.

Brohugs, depend how well you know the guy but it is firm and with a firm pat but don't knock him off his feet. You are greeting not being dominant. To do so is an insult, just like trying to crush his hand.

Guys only hug women they know; relatives or long term female friends and it is an embrace. Let the woman kiss you on the cheek if she wishes. Sometimes instead of a kiss she will touch her cheek against yours. Never hug her so that her breasts are touching you. She is greeting a man she trusts and feels totally at ease with. It is totally nonsexual.

Women will often hug a female friend quickly with no embrace and just touch cheeks. Usually talking nonstop  . This gives the cues of what she wants to talk about with her friends.

Non of these ideas work in non western cultures, or with friends or acquaintances from other cultures that may have distinct boundaries. If you are fortunate enough to make friends with men or women from other cultures pick the cues from them. Most are trying very hard to assimilate into your culture and overcoming the socialisation they have received and want to fit in, but it can be very confronting - even more than it for us who have 'only' changed gender socialisation.

Sorry if this came over like 'Greetings for Dummies 101' it wasn't meant that way!

Quote from: Cindy on November 24, 2015, 01:19:38 AM

One I love  is how guys will wait with an utterly bored look (with a tinge of embarrassment) as their female SO goes shopping for clothes, particularly lingerie, and this interaction of 'yes bro I don't know how I put up with it' attitude.

I've got that one down.

Thomas

Haha I guess I hangout with too many metro dudes. My two male best friends have no problem with fashion one just doesn't like when people call women underwear panties and that's completely understandable you're not 5 lol. I don't hug the one of them but the other is pretty open with hugs.
The stuff that Aero said is pretty solid I'm pre everything and I don't try too hard to pass the most I have is a binder and wear guys clothes. My friends treat me as a girl but a very different girl. I'm like one of the guys to all of them but I get invited to girls night lol (honestly that's gonna be the one thing I miss the most about being a girl). Anyway my point is I'm not considered a guy really but any male friend/ acquaintance/ interaction I have we have always done one or more of what Aero said.
As for the handshake my really close friend best friends (I say this because really who else would you have a conversation about handshakes with lol)  both agree that a limp handshake is nasty and our view on them automatically lowers and that's coming from a guy and a girl. So the handshake is a tough one I guess when it comes to girls because they typically have a limp one and some guys do too, but I also go for a firm handshake and if I crush their limp hand then I hope they learned their lesson 

The handshake is one of those things that doesn't translate across cultures. An Indian handshake is more like just touching palms. Gripping or squeezing is considered rude.

Quote from: WorkingOnThomas on November 25, 2015, 08:15:52 AM
The handshake is one of those things that doesn't translate across cultures. An Indian handshake is more like just touching palms. Gripping or squeezing is considered rude.

See that's why I just prefer the head nod/ bow no need to worry about the tricky complex handshake. I wish we could move toward bows

The BroHug!!! Being on a submarine for a long time and being really close with other men, we have had many discussions and have had intense practice on the ultimate BroHug. The true BroHug tends to be uncomfortable for a lot of men who are uncomfortable with their sexuality, so be mindful that it isn't for use with everyone.

Here is how it is done. Stand up tall, chest held high exuding full confidence. Approach fellow bro, standing just in front of him. Left arm goes low, around waist pulling bro in close. Right arm goes high, just around and outside of the shoulder. As you come close with fellow bro, your head will move to the left of their head (definitely no eye contact at this time, and do not wait for fronts of faces to get too close) while keeping rest of body in line. Fully embrace by pulling close with left arm, ensuring pelvis is tilted slightly back to prevent any unwanted contact of the nether regions. Right arm is clutch at this point: this is the backslap, the ultimate sign of affection between bros. It takes practice to find the right pressure to apply while slapping, but be firm without breaking bones. No more than 3 slaps, and definitely no rubbing: only slaps. When first signs of awkwardness begin to set it, release hold with both arms then step back a couple steps. Finish with some cool type of high five/handshake mix to be clear that this was bro love, much different from intimacy.

Hope this helps, enjoy!

Hahaha, your description is hilarious Robyn.  It reads like a military training manual!  :-)

Another male behavior  that you may run across is jokingly insulting each other.  I'm not sure if this is everywhere or just in my particular subculture.  It's not to be taken personally and requires a certain degree of sensitivity to not cross the line into something really hurtful.

Well I leaned in for the hug and my reaction was to arch kind of, to hold my chest back. I´d do that when I wasn´t wearing a binder. Apparently it´s still in my system  I feel awkward about it. Would be great to just have a flat chest.

Then we proceeded to hug in a standard way, but instead of giving him a couple of manly pats, I sort of stroked his back and then mildy panicked because I realized how feminine that was.

Quote from: AeroZeppelin92 on November 23, 2015, 04:52:13 PMwalk with your center of gravity in your shoulders, not your hips. (Don't "glide" as in swaying your hips)

Great advice about the center of gravity being around the shoulders. Do you know if men tend to walk with shoulders dropped forwards or backwards though? I guess I don´t need to walk like a soldier but been wondering about that one.

Quote from: Cindy on November 24, 2015, 01:19:38 AMOne I love  is how guys will wait with an utterly bored look (with a tinge of embarrassment) as their female SO goes shopping for clothes, particularly lingerie, and this interaction of 'yes bro I don't know how I put up with it' attitude.

Easy, I don´t have an SO but I dislike shopping  Thanks for the advice.

Quote from: haeden on November 25, 2015, 08:23:26 AM
See that's why I just prefer the head nod/ bow no need to worry about the tricky complex handshake. I wish we could move toward bows

I like the idea. I usually prefer short but sure interaction, like T.K.G.W I am not a huge fan of hugging, but I hug my friends to show affection. For me limp handshakes don´t really work. I prefer people who assert themselves whether they´re male or female, though someone crushing your hand to dust is no fun either...

Haha Robyn I´m gonna need to take some time to study that. Better if I start with the basics maybe and then build up

Quote from: Deborah on November 25, 2015, 09:16:29 AM
Another male behavior  that you may run across is jokingly insulting each other.  I'm not sure if this is everywhere or just in my particular subculture.  It's not to be taken personally and requires a certain degree of sensitivity to not cross the line into something really hurtful.

I love a little good-hearted trash talk, and I've accidentally made this a part of my (predominantly) female social circle. It's really funny to watch my beautifully made-up, girly-girl classmates shout things like "Would you look at this sh/tstain over here?"

Hmm, how do you balance wanting to pass to make life easy, with a general dislike of "bro culture" and all that? I'm not into hugging so I've got the socially awkward man hug down naturally, but I'm not a fan of manspreading or demeaning any nearby women to prop up my masculinity?

Quote from: captains on November 25, 2015, 10:02:17 AM
I love a little good-hearted trash talk, and I've accidentally made this a part of my (predominantly) female social circle. It's really funny to watch my beautifully made-up, girly-girl classmates shout things like "Would you look at this sh/tstain over here?"

In my experience girls just do that anyway haha

Or maybe I just had really nasty friends? lol

Quote from: Deborah on November 25, 2015, 09:16:29 AM
Another male behavior  that you may run across is jokingly insulting each other.  I'm not sure if this is everywhere or just in my particular subculture.  It's not to be taken personally and requires a certain degree of sensitivity to not cross the line into something really hurtful.

My female friends and I are probably worse at this than our male friends lol I think girls trash talk just as much as guys but it's mostly at other people not their friends

Quote from: November Fox on November 25, 2015, 09:56:57 AM
I like the idea. I usually prefer short but sure interaction, like T.K.G.W I am not a huge fan of hugging, but I hug my friends to show affection. For me limp handshakes don´t really work. I prefer people who assert themselves whether they´re male or female, though someone crushing your hand to dust is no fun either...

My strength isn't nearly strong enough to "crush" someone's hand but it feels that way when the other persons is limp. I love hugs so I don't mind them but Not really with strangers the head nod / bow would be good enough for me. Some people you just really don't want to touch and some people also just don't wash their hands and I'm not down with that

Quote from: November Fox on November 25, 2015, 09:56:57 AM


Great advice about the center of gravity being around the shoulders. Do you know if men tend to walk with shoulders dropped forwards or backwards though? I guess I don´t need to walk like a soldier but been wondering about that one.

It depends. If you are military trained you keep your back ramrod straight with shoulders back but most guys without that kind of training tend to shrug their shoulders forward. Its honestly almost like falling forward as opposed to being pulled forward from the hips. The other thing is to keep your elbows turned out. The natural female tendency is to turn them in towards the waist but guys tend to rotate them outwards slightly. If you keep your hands in your pockets it can help with learning to keep elbows out. Another behavior if you prefer is to study soldiers in training films. They are taught to keep good posture and exude confidence and marching is good practice for a manly walk. That and taking martial arts can never hurt. learning to walk in stance can help to get you a more masculine walk and it helps build confidence and channel aggression.

Quote from: Deborah on November 25, 2015, 09:16:29 AM
Another male behavior  that you may run across is jokingly insulting each other.  I'm not sure if this is everywhere or just in my particular subculture.  It's not to be taken personally and requires a certain degree of sensitivity to not cross the line into something really hurtful.

I don't know if I just hang out with weird people but most of my female friends do this as well. We have very unflattering nicknames for each other (like I'm quite often "an old fart" due to me being three years older than them).

I think for guys this goes more into picking on (lack of) physical strength or possibly not handling stereotypically male things of interest (like cars etc) well. My friend's father is very much into this and honestly I found it very annoying and sometimes even offending. >.> How the heck am I supposed to know which pedal is which in a car when I don't even have a fricking driver's license and even less interest in cars in general??