I've been discussing FFS with my gender therapist. My initial assumption was that I would not live full time as a female until after FFS. I'm very tall so I am very concerned about verbal and physical assault if it was obvious I still had an Adam's apple, for example. My therapist's concern is that because FFS is such a major and irreversible surgery, it may be better to live full time prior to FFS to ensure I am ready for such a visible and permanent transition.

I wanted to hear about experiences and thoughts from other women here. Did any of you transition pre-FFS? Did you notice a significant difference in how often you were clocked post-FFS? I know a common view here is that this is the other person's problem, not mine. I appreciate that but I still have real concerns. Any voices are appreciated.

I had my adams apple shaved and a nose job and that's it. The rest of the face is original equipment. I ask the surgeon to give me a nose that would work on a male or a female face because I wanted to leave my options open. I am 6'2" and the face has worked for 33 years without ever being physically or verbally assaulted. I treat everybody with respect and they treat me the same. In addition before surgery on my voice last summer, my voice was in the average male range.

We often worry far to much about how others will treat us but I was able to find and hold 4 jobs in the 33 year period and was accepted for who I was. I never talked about my past and it only came up about 2 or 3 times. I suggest you spend more time in public part time and see how others accept you because you may discover there isn't anything to fear.

My pretransition planning sounded very similiar to this. What i found as probably do most is that HRT, hair removal, etc go along way. I found i was passing after 3 months HRT and over a year of laser hair removal on my face. But i was so convinced i needed FFS before going fulltime.

Thanks. I suppose part of this will be about how quickly HRT is able to feminize my face, if at all. Going to E3K every 6-8 weeks for complete beard removal, so hopefully that will help. Had my first round at the beginning of this month, next one after Xmas, another in Feb, etc. Also need to start working on voice. Maybe I am assigning magical properties to FFS.

It's a package deal if the package mostly says female, people will gender you as female even if there are flaws. My eyes are deep set and I have a brow ridge that most of the time but not always is covered by hair. I never though much about it until I came here and discovered FFS. The only thing I will do about it is to continue wearing my hair over my forehead because it worked this long so why bother. Sometimes FFS really improves a persons looks but sometimes I think the before face was better. See what you have to work with before you consider FFS because you may not need it and the money can be applied to other needs.

By the way, I had surgery to get rid of a really nasty Adams Apple and if I didn't need that, I would have left the nose alone. My nose had a deep indentation where the glasses would cross from side to side and that was what was removed. The remainder of the nose was brought back to the correct proportion and the best part was my passages were opened up so I could breath freely.

I don't really see FFS as make or break for passing to be honest. If you can go FT before you get FFS, do it. Otherwise if you want a clean break from your job etc after you get FFS, then it may be wise to get FFS first then go FT.

Hi !

I went full time some weeks before having FFS, and I felt before that FFS would push my transition ahead strongly... this is what happened indeed, I was Madamed before but I felt it was in a more convinced way from others after... I believe however that the most important target was for my own esteem to see a girl in the mirror, and my self image has dramatically evolved since FFS.. I love my new face, I feel much more comfortable in my body and my life than ever ... feminity is going on its long way inside me ... 

Thanks Marie, that's kind of what I am hoping for too. I don't think I'll turn into a 30 year old supermodel (you look amazing, BTW), and I'm OK with that. I do want to feel like my face better matches who I feel I am. I'm going to be in a good place re beard removal by the time HRT begins, and hopefully HRT will at least help me pass somewhat before I get FFS. A lot depends on the surgeon of course. Some of after pictures for some doctors look kinda botox-y to me and that is not what I am after. Lots to think about.

I can relate to this topic.  I am very stuck on the idea of wanting to look naturally female which kind of drives my desire to feminize my bone structure before I live fulltime socially as F, but really there are a lot of things that I will have to overcome regardless of how I look and I may regret avoiding those things and focusing so much on my appearance.  Obviously actually transitioning socially is a huge change.  I have been kind of riding the androgynous male wave a while, despite hormone therapy.

Hrt definitely does feminize you, but it can only work with what you have facially.  It would be easier to deal with being "visible" or like passing "sometimes/most of the time" except that with my job track it just would be too stressful for me to live like that.  Its already stressful as hell looking like a hyperfeminine guy.  And I am very prideful.

I went full time last year simply because I was getting gendered as a woman without even trying. The years of HRT and facial hair removal worked like they were supposed to! If I had it my way I would have done FFS 20 years ago but there were too many factors why that didn't work.

Could I have still been full time without FFS? Yep! Would I have been at peace with myself? Not for me, no way in hell.

Hmmm...it's so hard to imagine I'll experience male fail on my own with just hormones, but who knows? I am starting to work on my voice and my figure so maybe that will help. I know I definitely don't feel connected to the face I have. If I looked very different but attractive after FFS  I think I'd be fine with that. I know that isn't how it works.

I started HRT in March of this year.  In April I had my adams apple shaved while I was having non-FFS nose work done.  I went full time away from work in May and full time, including work, in June.  At the end of August I had some FFS (hairline advancement, forehead contouring, brow bones, eye brows and eye lids) work done.  I was comfortable enough presenting full time starting in May that I didn't feel the need to have to do FFS before going full time.  It really is up to you and how you feel.  There is no right or wrong way to do it.   

I am a tall girl too at 6' 1" and I have never been confronted or had anyone make a comment to me in public yet. 

There was no way I could have been full time without FFS even if I did get madammed a lot of the time.My jaw height and forehead were(in my mind) enormous.FFS worked for me and was part of my transition  plan.It didnt make me beautiful but it has helped enormously.