Hello, frequent lurker, now forced to interact!

As mentioned in the title I have been off hormones for ~4 years and I am post-op. I thought I was doing my body a favor by weaning myself off my hormones, but, I think it is effecting my health. I have now been prescribed oral estradiol in hope of improving my symptoms.

I am 30 and exercise daily (despite fatigue) and eat an diet close to "Paleo". I avoid processed food, sugar, caffeine and alcohol at all times.

I am extremley worried that I have done permanent damage to my body. I have frequent heart palpitations (have had fits of tachycardia), Anhedonia, Weakness, Lack of Motivation, Brain Fog, Insomnia, Fatigue, Food allergies, Random pain, tingling and I think a sensitivity to sugar.

I am in the process of being tested by my doctor/endo for a number of problems, but this is taking forever to arrange appointments here in Canada.

Should I be worried? Have I done permanent Damage to my body by not having proper levels of sex hormones in my body? I am extremely worried after reading multiple sources commenting on adrenal burnout and shredding arteries and all sorts of other scary things.


I have been on my hormones again [doses not permitted under TOS] estradiol oral for 2 days. I do not feel much different, perhaps a little more tired. Will this possibly reverse my symptoms? or is it too late? I feel so stupid. Any free advice?

Thanks in advance!

Your doc can tell you that but I think damage is usually to your bones eg osteoperosis. You should be evaluated for that.

Your other symptoms could be caused by anything to be honest but only a doctor can tell you for sure.

Fatigue could be low testosterone, which is easily fixed.

I've had some very odd problems from low vitamin D, and I think its quite common. It sounds similar to some of yours. I don't get out in the sun much. Vitamin D3 supplements fixed that really fast.

Search the forums for osteoporosis as its been discussed here before. Try typing this in google (or use the forums search tool, but I never have much luck with that)

    site:susans.org osteoporosis

I'd be looking for an endocrinologist rather than a GP. Much better when you have difficulty.

You have made the mistake of not listening to the advice of a good doctor.

Do not make the same mistake again now.

The body renews itself every 7 years.

Real longterm stuff should be very rare.

You might simply eat healthy, do some moderate exercises like walking regularly and have a healthy lifestyle.

Stressing now is counterproductive.
Try to relax, and keep to a mental picture of things being all right in the future.
This helps much with healing and a feeling of well being.
Just trust it will be all right.

As an aside, eunuchs in the past were often reported to be healthy even in a higher age.

Just do what makes sense now... for example a low dose of estro...

and as someone said... there are tests for bone density...
remedies would be certain vitamins and supplements...


hugs

All the symptoms you described (including fatigue) plus others like accelerated ageing, increasing risk of coronary heart problems, increasing risk of Alzheimer's, bone loss, insulin resistance are usually a result of lack of estrogen. Some do not absorb estrogen well orally and it might reduce testosterone too much due to potent stimulation of SHBG. So, sometimes, non-oral is preferred, like gel, patches, pellets or injectables. Some need significant doses to see a difference in symptoms, some need less, it depends and this should be determined by a competent doctor, whether GP, endo or gynecologist. BTW, I live in Canada too.

Having no sex hormones in the body is usually harmful for the body, they do many useful things. In my opinion (I'm not a doctor) they are more beneficial than harmful as long as bio-identical hormones are used.

Best of luck.

Welcome to Susan's Place. What you are feeling may have many causes and are most likely was not caused by the lack of hormones. I have been off all hormones for about 10 years because of the amount of time I was on them and I haven't felt any ill effects. To avoid bone damage I take half my requirement for calcium in tablet form and drink about 2 cups of milk a day. This also requires vitamin D which you get in the milk, supplement or sun exposure. By all means, see a doctor and get a proper diagnosis but I suspect the lack of hormones are not the cause.

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Quote from: AnonyMs on December 02, 2015, 11:43:48 AM
Fatigue could be low testosterone, which is easily fixed.

I've had some very odd problems from low vitamin D, and I think its quite common. It sounds similar to some of yours. I don't get out in the sun much. Vitamin D3 supplements fixed that really fast.

Search the forums for osteoporosis as its been discussed here before. Try typing this in google (or use the forums search tool, but I never have much luck with that)

    site:susans.org osteoporosis

I'd be looking for an endocrinologist rather than a GP. Much better when you have difficulty.

I will see about taking a low dose of testosterone when I can finally visit my endo. Thanks!

Quote from: Laura_7 on December 02, 2015, 01:17:03 PM
The body renews itself every 7 years.

Real longterm stuff should be very rare.

You might simply eat healthy, do some moderate exercises like walking regularly and have a healthy lifestyle.

Stressing now is counterproductive.
Try to relax, and keep to a mental picture of things being all right in the future.
This helps much with healing and a feeling of well being.
Just trust it will be all right.

As an aside, eunuchs in the past were often reported to be healthy even in a higher age.

Just do what makes sense now... for example a low dose of estro...

and as someone said... there are tests for bone density...
remedies would be certain vitamins and supplements...


hugs

Thanks, you have eased my mind a bit (especially with the eunuch comment). I probably do just need to chill out and just take my hormones!

I do already eat a super healthful diet and take vitamin D in winter.

Quote from: KayXo on December 02, 2015, 01:25:40 PM
All the symptoms you described (including fatigue) plus others like accelerated ageing, increasing risk of coronary heart problems, increasing risk of Alzheimer's, bone loss, insulin resistance are usually a result of lack of estrogen. Some do not absorb estrogen well orally and it might reduce testosterone too much due to potent stimulation of SHBG. So, sometimes, non-oral is preferred, like gel, patches, pellets or injectables. Some need significant doses to see a difference in symptoms, some need less, it depends and this should be determined by a competent doctor, whether GP, endo or gynecologist. BTW, I live in Canada too.

Having no sex hormones in the body is usually harmful for the body, they do many useful things. In my opinion (I'm not a doctor) they are more beneficial than harmful as long as bio-identical hormones are used.


Best of luck.

Now the question is, was my estrogen so low during this many year time period that I am actually suffering from these problems?

Yes it is hard to find a competent doctor in a Timely fashion in rural Canada. my family doc is the best I have and I have lost touch with my endo. I really hope she can fit me in soon!

Quote from: Dena on December 02, 2015, 02:55:45 PM
Welcome to Susan's Place. What you are feeling may have many causes and are most likely was not caused by the lack of hormones. I have been off all hormones for about 10 years because of the amount of time I was on them and I haven't felt any ill effects. To avoid bone damage I take half my requirement for calcium in tablet form and drink about 2 cups of milk a day. This also requires vitamin D which you get in the milk, supplement or sun exposure. By all means, see a doctor and get a proper diagnosis but I suspect the lack of hormones are not the cause.

We issue to all new members the following links so you will best be able to use the web site.

Things that you should read

I thought I wasn't having ill effects until my heart started flipfloping in my chest and my fatigue became debilitating But maybe they have to do with another issue, that is true.

So, you have no hormones and post op? So you don't even feel anhedonic? I have had such trouble feeling much satisfaction or positive emotion for the last few years.

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QuoteSo, you have no hormones and post op? So you don't even feel anhedonic? I have had such trouble feeling much satisfaction or positive emotion for the last few years.

You might look for an endo or gyn and have your levels adjusted...

here was a similar thread:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,200048.msg1778991.html#msg1778991


hugs

Emotionally I enjoy life just as much as before. If you are having motivation issues, it could be two things. The first it is could be some other health issue. The second is post surgical let down. I had a new life to live after surgery and I am still working on adding interest to my life. Sometimes people think the new life will be handed to them after surgery but it's not the case. You have to work on the new life post surgical just like you worked on the transition. One of the reason I am on this site is to add meaning to my life. I enjoy helping others and I think this is the best way to use my talents.

For you it could be charity, finding a new life partners or maybe sharing more with family and friends. What each person wants out of life is different so the question is what type of life do you want to live?

Quote from: Dena on December 02, 2015, 05:30:26 PM
Emotionally I enjoy life just as much as before. If you are having motivation issues, it could be two things. The first it is could be some other health issue. The second is post surgical let down. I had a new life to live after surgery and I am still working on adding interest to my life. Sometimes people think the new life will be handed to them after surgery but it's not the case. You have to work on the new life post surgical just like you worked on the transition. One of the reason I am on this site is to add meaning to my life. I enjoy helping others and I think this is the best way to use my talents.

For you it could be charity, finding a new life partners or maybe sharing more with family and friends. What each person wants out of life is different so the question is what type of life do you want to live?

Good points...

another one might simply be testo levels... if testo levels are quite low there might be few overall drive...
and higher estro might make for a more emotional setup...


hugs

Quote from: Turnip on December 02, 2015, 05:06:53 PM
Now the question is, was my estrogen so low during this many year time period that I am actually suffering from these problems?

Post-op, you don't have any gonads and your only source of sex hormones is adrenal glands so levels of testosterone and estradiol will be undoubtedly low.

The heart palpitations and fatigue went away in my case when I upped my hormones and actually added progesterone. But, to each their own.

Quote from: Dena on December 02, 2015, 05:30:26 PM
The first it is could be some other health issue.

It could be or it could be the lack of hormones. A competent doctor will determine this. Do you dismiss entirely the importance of sex hormones and their effects on motivation, energy, emotions because it appears studies have shown their crucial role and I can attest to this, based on my own experience.

QuoteThe second is post surgical let down.

She is 4 yrs post-op. That is quite a long time.

Quotethe question is what type of life do you want to live?

I agree that there may be a psychological component to this but hormones also affect psyche so maybe a team composed of a competent doctor, psychologist may help decipher the mystery. It is important to consider (and work on) all dimensions and not dismiss any of them. Agreed.

Quote from: Laura_7 on December 02, 2015, 05:35:43 PM
another one might simply be testo levels... if testo levels are quite low there might be few overall drive...
and higher estro might make for a more emotional setup...

I personally would consider testosterone to be last resort as its side-effects can be devastating including lowering voice, even at 30, increasing facial/body hair, making one look more masculine, worsening scalp hair, producing acne. Some changes, such as voice lowering, are irreversible, others like facial hair might require additional investment into laser treatment and electrolysis. Acne could cause permanent scars. Each person responds differently to testosterone, some might be more sensitive...it's a BIG gamble, in my opinion.

Estrogen and possibly progesterone should first be looked into, I think...BUT, I'm not a doctor, it's up to your doctors to determine this. Just my 2 cents.

Sorry as a newbie I can't figure out how to add multiple quotes aside from copying and pasting the shortcode so i will reply to the specific points without I am glad you all care so much and appreciate your input You seem like lovley ladies, too bad we can't go out for coffee some time (although I can't do that anymore with my darn PVCs)

I think you are both making good points. To me it come down to 3 possibilities: Hormone, Psychological, or other issues.

Hormones seem the most likely (Kay seems to agree also). I see myself as very healthy psychologically. I have a great outlook on life and am happy with my situation. I just have been feeling emotionally blunted.

Health wise I treat my body very well (as I said plenty of exercise and paleo diet) and by all appearances I am in tip-top condition. I just feel weak and unmotivated inside. I may actually be a little bit to lean. I have lost a lot of weight in the last year (I used to have a solid muscular build) and I eat a tonne of food per day.

Anyhow, I hope you all can excuse my for talking about myself so much, but I am quite concerned. I really hope it is the hormones and not some other issues. Last night I had some PVCs, anxiety and tiredness, but i think overall I feel more calm and less brain fog since starting my estrace again.

I have been in touch with the endo too, I think I may be able to get an apointment soon.

Quote from: KayXo on December 02, 2015, 08:38:17 PM

I personally would consider testosterone to be last resort as its side-effects can be devastating including lowering voice, even at 30, increasing facial/body hair, making one look more masculine, worsening scalp hair, producing acne. Some changes, such as voice lowering, are irreversible, others like facial hair might require additional investment into laser treatment and electrolysis. Acne could cause permanent scars. Each person responds differently to testosterone, some might be more sensitive...it's a BIG gamble, in my opinion.

Estrogen and possibly progesterone should first be looked into, I think...BUT, I'm not a doctor, it's up to your doctors to determine this. Just my 2 cents.

I am worried about the same. I already have acne scars though... so that wouldn't make a difference to me lol. I am actually considerably less vain than I was a while ago, and while these side effects would bother me, my physical well being and motivation is more important to me now i guess. (also here is a TMI but I have 0 sexual satisfaction and I also feel T would help in that regard).

I'll talk to my endo and see what she thinks. I'm sure she will find that I have abnormally low testosterone. I will think about this long and hard though don't worry

Quote from: Dena on December 02, 2015, 05:30:26 PM
One of the reason I am on this site is to add meaning to my life. I enjoy helping others and I think this is the best way to use my talents.

You are a good person.

Ok so just talked to my old endo... I can't get in with he for another year! GAH. I have no idea what to do now. hopefully my GP can give me the necessary tests (he really does not place much importance on my hormone levels)

Americans, I have a question (and excuse my ignorance about your medical system there). Is there a way I could just pay to get immediate care from an endocrinologist in  your country? or does it still take forever to go through a referral process and all that. I know it would be expensive, but I am willing to give up a few vacations to find out what the heck is wrong with me asap.

Calcium doesn't actually increase bone density... muscle mass does. Bones have to be able to withstand your muscles without snapping. Bone density is always proportional to muscle torque. Older people don't get less dense bones because they all start neglecting calcium, they get frail bones because of muscle deterioration.

Testosterone doesn't actually increase muscle mass, per se, what it does is stimulate the release of growth hormones, which is what increases muscle mass, but estrogen also promotes the release of growth hormones, which is vital to muscle development. Without either hormone, less growth hormone is released, and muscle is lost, and by extension bone density.