Do we really need our existence validated by scientific data. Can't we just take the fact that we want to live as happy and fulfilled as possible given the finite time of our human existence. I mean if without any predetermined rationale can't we as human beings just freely choose the way that will bring us to a more complete life. We see a way to live in terms of dress and behaviors , why can't we just freely choose without some scientific rationale or causation. we come to understand medically how hormones guide our physical characteristics, why can't we freely choose for whatever reason that we prefer one path of living over another. There's  obviously no harm done by expressing a way to live. Does there really need to be anything more than your free will to choose a life that you feel fits better Sorry just curious because I like who I am and I really don't particularly care if my genes went haywire some where when  genetic structure was forming.

Science makes a strong argument for protecting trans identities. But it can be used against us as well. The strongest argument is a moral one, based on the autonomy of rational beings to live their life according to their own deepest vision of how they want their life to go. The problem with appealing to neurobiological explanations of trans identities is that "born this way" can mean "oh great it's biological - we can find a cure". Anti-trans bigots will twist any science to suit their political agenda. We need to fight a moral and political battle - not a scientific battle. Though I do think we should wage war on all fronts and it's always nice to have facts to back up your statements.

I totally agree on filling the armory . but can't I just live in a world where I'm growing up and harming no one, fulfilling my civic duties etc, but choose as the most appropriate path for my sense of being to live as the opposite gender of how the medically community labeled me when breaching the birth canal. I mean why do I need an explanation for how I choose to express myself.

I'm happy to see all nos on the poll. I think that most importantly it's about freedom and self-determination. It's our sexy bodies, we can do what we want.

The problem is, that even in a perfect world, where freedom to be oneself was absolute, no abuse or discrimination was permitted, and people respected the laws and conventions, and never violated them -- it is still completely possible for everyone to not believe that you're the genuine article, and just simply have the right to act like it, look like it, and not have it brought to your attention.

I think that the scientific evidence angle is simply rhetorical, for the most part (though it actually does often move legislation, and have political effect as well), and an attempt to persuade others that our identities are not merely permissible, and protected from abuse, but legitimate, and true.

The prudent, practical matter, is freedom and rights regardless of what others may personally believe, and the most important thing, of course. We humans also need validation, acceptance, and to be taken seriously, though.

The problem with saying there is no harm done by simply being yourself is that it doesn't recognize the core of the other side's opposition.  For them, our simple existence disrupts their natural order and destroys society.  That was the gist of the Pope's argument earlier this year and while you might not care what he thinks, there are a billion other people who do care.  Most religious arguments are along the same lines.

The importance of a scientific explanation is that it simply undermines their arguments and will sway the opinions of many people.  The reason to care what they think is because they vote and pass laws.

And why would it be bad if they found a way to prevent this before a person was born?  As for finding a cure for those that already are TS, there already is a cure as so many on this forum can attest.


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Quote from: stephaniec on December 03, 2015, 10:15:26 PM
Do we really need our existence validated by scientific data.

No, as long as we are not asking health insurers to cover our transitions.

If we want transition-related care to be covered by health insurance, we need to be able to claim that this is a treatable condition.

Well people might have some fears.
Is it a phase... did I cause it by an upbringing... is it contagious... etc...

A biological explanation can show this is a way people are.

Imo its much more acceptable.



Concerning a cure this will be food for discussion in the future.
I envision a more free society where people are better integrated in processes and more wise people have a voice, not only material views.


hugs

As a scientist, I am happy to see the science that explains the causes of ->-bleeped-<-.  Science is knowledge, and knowledge can help ease a person's self-doubt.

But being transgender is a self-diagnosed condition.  So the only validation needed is self-diagnosis.  If science helps one to do that, great.  But it is not a requirement, and certainly not the only one.

All I know is that I wish I didnt Have To Live with it.

Quote from: Deborah on December 04, 2015, 05:29:35 AM
And why would it be bad if they found a way to prevent this before a person was born?  As for finding a cure for those that already are TS, there already is a cure as so many on this forum can attest.

I think it'd be wrong to prevent trans people from being born because I think trans people are beautiful and it would be a worse world without them. It reminds me of eugenics, trying to erase natural biological variation from the gene pool. But I dont think being trans is a disease. It's society that's the problem, not being trans.

I like the science big time. But, i also agree that it goes way beyond that to moral questions and individual self-determination.

I'm amazed there are even opponents to this at times. If society will crumble because people choose a different gender presentation, or because people can marry whom they choose, it wasn't a strong society to begin with. Hold convictions about what you believe is right and wrong, but don't make those convictions mine and treat everyone with love. Not sure why that is so hard. Bigotry is like an adult version of a child tantrum.

Finally, society is richer with diversity. People that are seeking their true gender add to society when they are healthy and contributing.

The ONLY validation no - but as a scientist it is an important one certainly. The point is that modern science DOES unequivocally validate transgender and those who try to say it doesnt reveal themselves to be terminally scientifically ignorant idiots, peddling the half baked theories and understanding of fifty years ago.

So I'm voting other as I think this is a false dichotomy - science does NOT oppose transgender, it DOES validate it so the question is somewhat void.

I totally believe in science. To me there is absolutely no other reason for me being who I am other then the growth and knowledge that continues each day. The thing is I have come to freely choose who I am. I totally believe my genes or combination there of are screaming female , but I also freely accept and choose it to be so. In the past I was so hurt not knowing what the hell was going on , but that could of been alleviated by a more caring and knowledgeable society and more experienced educational and medical community . We shouldn't need to get a license to be trans.

If there was some hypothetical 100% accurate test that could tell you if you were transgender or not, and I took it, and it said no, would I regret my transition? No, because no matter how I got to this point, the decisions I made helped me become a better, happier person, and why would I regret that? I'm glad that science is on our side (and it most definitely is), but I think we also have to get over this idea that wanting to change your gender should be this forbidden thing only allowable as a last result. Right now it has to be that way, because the costs of transition (both financial and otherwise) are so high that you need a very strong justification for it to be worth going through. But I think if medical science continues to progress, some day changing your physical gender could become almost as easy as changing your clothes. And if that were to happen, what would be wrong with that? Maybe some people might like to switch to the other side for a bit, just to see what it was like. We just have way too many hangups around gender in our society right now, but it's time we start to get over them and stop putting people into artificial boxes in order to maintain the status quo. Gender is a spectrum, and people should be able to exist wherever on the spectrum makes them the most comfortable. That shouldn't require any sort of scientific justification.

everybody does things that they cannot easily explain the reason why.  Like I said to my wife one morning: I am tired of having to ask for permission to live my life. It is not a crime to be trans


Transgender people exist. Get over it

Nope, I don't need validation. Science still has no proof of souls but I know I have one...a trans soul! Scientific data to bolster what we know about ourselves would be nice but we are so early in neuroscience as a field that it would be foolish to expect answers. There are still too many unknowables.

As Popeye said "I am what I am and that's all what I am!"