Quote from: Marlene on December 14, 2007, 08:56:57 PMdid you apply for a Limited Validity(?) passport?  If you have documentation they are required to issue you a temporary FEMALE passport that's good for one year.  If you have time return the male passport with some documentation.

As I said above, I provided the documentation when I applied, but they did not give it to me. And when I tried to inquire the reason why, all I got was attitude but no answers.

Quote from: Hypatia on December 15, 2007, 01:24:35 PM

Quote from: Marlene on December 14, 2007, 08:56:57 PMdid you apply for a Limited Validity(?) passport?  If you have documentation they are required to issue you a temporary FEMALE passport that's good for one year.  If you have time return the male passport with some documentation.

As I said above, I provided the documentation when I applied, but they did not give it to me. And when I tried to inquire the reason why, all I got was attitude but no answers.

What is their policy for gender markers on a passport? Maybe it's not "attitude," but rather just following procedure? Most agencies seem to want a surgeons's letter that SRS has been completed. At least that's what I need to change the gender on my Birth Certificate, Driver's License, and Social Security.

~Kate~

Quote from: Kate on December 15, 2007, 02:23:09 PM

Quote from: Hypatia on December 15, 2007, 01:24:35 PM

Quote from: Marlene on December 14, 2007, 08:56:57 PMdid you apply for a Limited Validity(?) passport?  If you have documentation they are required to issue you a temporary FEMALE passport that's good for one year.  If you have time return the male passport with some documentation.

As I said above, I provided the documentation when I applied, but they did not give it to me. And when I tried to inquire the reason why, all I got was attitude but no answers.

What is their policy for gender markers on a passport? Maybe it's not "attitude," but rather just following procedure? Most agencies seem to want a surgeons's letter that SRS has been completed. At least that's what I need to change the gender on my Birth Certificate, Driver's License, and Social Security.

No.  There is a limited validity passport that is good for one year.  From what I remember a letter from the surgeon you're going to is sufficient to obtain a LVP that says "female".  It sounds like Hypatia has run into somebody that doesn't know the rules or they are just being a jerk.

Posted on: December 15, 2007, 04:00:57 PM

---

Quote from: Kate on December 15, 2007, 02:23:09 PM
What is their policy for gender markers on a passport? Maybe it's not "attitude," but rather just following procedure? Most agencies seem to want a surgeons's letter that SRS has been completed. At least that's what I need to change the gender on my Birth Certificate, Driver's License, and Social Security.

http://www.tsroadmap.com/reality/passport.html


Here's a link that outlines what I said.

From your link:

QuoteI got a call from the passport office telling me that they could issue a temporary (1 year) passport with my new name and "Female" as long as my doctor sent a letter to them stating that I was his patient and had SRS scheduled.

A few days later, I received my new passport with everything as it should be; no aliases, no indication of my transgender status, just a note that this is a temporary passport.

I did everything as described above. But they still did not give me the temporary passport. I got a regular 10-year passport with M on it. I immediately called the help line. They told me I needed to make an appointment at the passport office downtown. I scheduled the appointment, drove downtown and spent $12 on parking. I took a number and waited. The woman I spoke to there would not tell me the reason why my doctor's letter was not accepted. She would not look at the copy of the doctor's letter I had brought. She said only the office in Philadelphia that issued my passport knew the reason why my request was not honored. No, I could not contact them. She told me to call the help line. The same help line that had sent me to the downtown office. I was getting the runaround. I called the help line while I was right there. When I asked why, they said I had to have surgery and pretended not to know about the 1-year temporary passport for pre-ops. When I insisted about that, she looked up the rules. My doctor had asked to be put on the line to find out from them directly what to write. They said no, he could not talk to them. No, they would not e-mail me the rules either. I asked them to read me the rules and I tried to jot down what was being read to me over the phone. But then my cell phone's battery ran out. When I got home, I went to their web site and found their contact form. I described my problem and asked what to do. I never got a response. That's what I mean by they gave me attitude instead of information. I did follow the f|_|cking procedure... for all the good it did me.

They sound like jerks.  I would just suck it up and use the "M" passport.  The key thing they are looking for is that the name on your ID and ticket match.  If it would make you more comfortable, take along a "carry letter" from your therapist stating that you are a patient of his and are in transition.  The TSA has seen plenty of us before.

I have an on-line friend from California who's going to Montreal next month and the office she dealt with was uber helpful.

I am not a US citizen Hypatia but do you remember that I was just in the States for Halloween?.  Well now I have moved to Brussels and I had to travel with my passport that has a big, fat M on it.  Argentina doesnt allow transsexuals to change their sex on legal documents even after GRS.  This is the main reason why I came to Europe.  Peeps are more open minded here and I have got the chances to become a citizen of Belgium without much of the red tape I find in my home country.  Anyway, nobody seemed to notice the M on my passport.  They didnt question me or detain me, but to be safe I carried all my therapists documentation with me.  Good luck

Quote from: Pia on December 16, 2007, 03:31:40 AM
Anyway, nobody seemed to notice the M on my passport.  They didnt question me or detain me, but to be safe I carried all my therapists documentation with me.  Good luck

That's what I'm wondering... which is more likely to create problems? A mismatch between my appearance and an "M" sex marker on the passport? Or a mismatch between an "F" on my passport and an "M" on all my other identification (Social Security, Birth Certificate, Driver's License)?

I didn't push my luck with changing the marker on those IDs yet, as officially, they all require SRS to change, and I've been "doing things by the book" so far. I'm wondering if it's thus BETTER to keep an "M" on the passport just to remain consistent?

~Kate~

I have F on my driver's license--but it's a temporary one. My doctor certified to the Virginia DMV that I'm surgery-tracked, and they grant it to pre-op for 18 months. If I don't get SRS before the time is up, it reverts to M.

I got F on my Social Security simply for the asking. I got lucky when I went to the SSA office (right after my hassles at the passport office), I was seen by a nice lady who didn't demand proof of surgery. However, my Social Security card doesn't indicate gender anyway, just my name and number.

So here's my scorecard:

Driver's license--I went by the book and my request was fulfilled in due course.
Passport--I went by the book but instead I got stonewalled.
Social Security--they bypassed procedure and simply gave me what I wanted.

<shrug> Go figure...

I do not have a passport as I never had a need for one. However, i have had to fly and present my old male ID due to issues I am having with the name change. Even though I was dressed about as masculine as I could and the fact that both the license and ticket had the male name, I was called Miss and Ma'am the entire time and they actually feminised my first name. It was surreal. When the metal detector flipped out on me, I had to wait for a female agent to come over and wand me.

Fortunately I have never had a problem but I have heard horror stories from others.

Hypatia, you have a right to  have a temp passport, get an advocate to help you, perhaps your Congress person, or if you have any TG legal help in your area. Don't give up!


http://www.nclrights.org/site/PageServer?pagename=legal_getHelp

QuoteNeed Help?

Do you have legal questions related to your sexual orientation or gender identity? The information on our website is here to help you and, if you don't find the answer to your questions there, our helpline can help you.

review publications & downloads

contact us

for lawyers: counseling & co-counseling
review publications & downloads

NCLR has many useful publications. We encourage you to look over these materials prior to contacting us to see if you can find the information you need on our website.

    * elder law
    * employment
    * families & parenting
    * immigration
    * marriage
    * relationship recognition
    * sports
    * transgender
    * youth

Quote from: Keira on December 11, 2007, 12:20:23 PM

Pre-op, you'd be considered a very very weird male
and depending on the country, would or would not
make a diff.

Post op, still a very weird male for them
until you get the passport changed (hopefully
you've got a transit passport in your new gender
but its not always possible),
until they stripsearch you... Then, Oh my, wouldn't
want to be in some countries in the world!!

I got arrested once a few years ago because I tried to use an old male bank card. They thought I had stolen it even though I insisted it was mine.......

Just the other day the TSA was voted as the most disliked government organization, tying with the IRS and doing worse than FEMA.  So, its not just us that has a problem with them.

WASHINGTON, Dec 20 (Reuters) - Airport security lines can annoy passengers, but there is no evidence that they make flying any safer, U.S. researchers reported on Thursday.

A team at the Harvard School of Public Health could not find any studies showing whether the time-consuming process of X-raying carry-on luggage prevents hijackings or attacks.

They also found no evidence to suggest that making passengers take off their shoes and confiscating small items prevented any incidents.

The TSA said that they had ""defended its measures by reporting that more than 13 million prohibited items were intercepted in one year," the researchers added. "Most of these illegal items were lighters."

Flick your bic?  All of this stuff was unnecessary to begin with, the pre9-11 stuff, brought about by a plane crash later proved NOT to be terrorist, did little either.

And a passport is really not for the country issuing it, its for the country that the person is trying to get into.  I seem to recall some sort of international agreement about them.  Which is why they look so similar.

I have flown a lot and never had a problem...my passport still has that dang old 'M' on it while the rest of my documentation has the 'F'...and I've never had a problem...well...except once...but I think it was more the security check-point worker had a problem with me then anything. Once I demanded to see his supervisor things went better.

I was flying into Guatemala a few years back and when I got to customs they looked at my passport and tourist card and said I could go ahead and change the gender marker to 'F' it I wanted, so I did. You don't need to present your passport to often, but the tourist card can be demanded by just about any cop that feels like it...and since I was presenting as female and had letters from my doctor's I could mark the 'F'. Then while the guy was going through my bags, he told me to avoid a couple of areas in Guat City because they had recently had a number of us 'girls' killed in those areas...

Personally I think a lot of it has to do with your attitude more then anything...but that's just my opinion on the matter...

Peace and love,
Izzy

PS. The only place I ever had a problem flying into and going through customs was Germany, but that was back in the late-80s and it wasn't as common to run into us girls back then....

Me, unless its major money business ($1k per day or more), I will not fly.  Even then, if they are flying me out, they put me on a train on the way back (I've had to do it twice in the last five years).  Its just much more civilized to take the train.

Quote from: tekla on December 27, 2007, 08:36:48 PMif they are flying me out, they put me on a train on the way back

Umm... One-way airplane ticket? Sounds like a good way to get pulled aside and strip searched.

It really doesn't seem to be a problem. Chicago to Baltimore as a girl with male ID on Southwest. DC to Charlotte on US Air. And Amtrak is a breeze.

I guess international trips might be difficult but we will see.

Alison

There are going to search me anyway, they hate the tools I travel with.  And my answers to their questions (largely consisting of asking them what Constitutional authority gives them the right to ask me that in the first place) does not exactly float their boat either.  But, I'm not checking a few thousand dollars worth of electronic diagnostic equipment through the den of thieves that run baggage areas.  Nor am I going to inform anyone of my business other to answer "work". 

But the tickets tend to be bought round trip (some accounting deal I think) then when I get there I turn in the return ticket, buy the train ticket and bill them for the difference, if any.  And, once I get on the train all is mellow.  I can go to the club car, get a few drinks, find a table and put out a deck of cards and a cribbage board and have someone to talk with in less than 10 minutes.  And, unlike airline food - which, if you even get it anymore, still has that 'no one's ever asked for seconds' quality to it - dinner on the train is AbFab.