I can tell pretty quickly when people are staring at me. It doesn't happen often, I might get a few looks and glances but not much in the way of staring. Usually when someone is that rude I respond by staring back at their ear... it really freaks them out because I'm not quite looking at them and they look away...

Anyway, yesterday I got on the train for home and I could tell immediately that I had caught some guy's eye. And he was really looking quite obviously and intently at me. I did the stare at the ear thing but he caught my eye instead and motioned to ask if I wanted the seat next to him. I smiled curtly and shook my head and looked away.

He stood up and came over to me saying "I'm getting off at the next stop anyway". Again, I just smiled curtly.

"How was your day?" he asked, obviously determined to be in my face.

"Fine. How was yours?" I replied.

"Oh yeah, good" - he was looking at me in a way that I could have sworn he was dying to ask me if I was trans and ask me all kinds of other questions about being trans. I know that look, I've seen it before and no doubt had it myself more than a few times.

Fortunately he didn't - instead he asked "Going home?"

"Eventually", i replied and then I pretended to be absorbed in my phone until the train got to the stop and he got off. We gave each other brief parting smiles. And I noticed at that point his arms had either been waxed or shaved. And I'm thinking to myself "was that person pre/non transition trans?" Who knows, maybe it was just a fanciful assumption brought on by the interaction with someone who, even though they were being "friendly", was kind of freaking me out. I do find that my gut feeling on things are often spot on or close to the mark though.

It reminded me of conversations on this forum about people who see other trans people in public and who really want to be able to interact with them. I've been in that situation myself in the past too but I never went up and spoke to them. Anyway, just a crazy theory!! Carry on...

about a year ago, when I was just beginning to transition, I was shopping for women's clothing, but was doing it in guy mode at the time. While shopping in a Macy's I saw another woman who sort of looked like she was trans. I wanted to say hi, but I pretended  not to notice in case she wasn't trans, didn't want to be outed, or just didn't want to be asked about trans stuff while busy with other stuff.

Ive been there on the "him" side, wanting to talk with someone I was sure was doing what I was, yet I never did

Grace, way back when I had some moments like you experienced I did what you did...........making the world think I was busy.  Doing that always helped in that if I looked busy in settings like you were in it appears to the world that you are just another woman trying to keep their hectic life in check.  Early on we are all more aware of those around us and think they all have some innate ability to pick us out of a crowd. 

I transitioned 14 years ago and had all the facial work done so I do not even think about that now.......with ONE exception.  My work requires that I travel a great deal and I find myself on a plane often.  I often worry about who will be sitting next to me for up to three hours.  Some of those people try to get into personal stuff as they have no one else to speak to during that period.  That to me that is very uncomfortable.....and sometimes I wonder......"do they know?"  It always turns out to be a nosy older lady who just wants to talk or some man who ends up telling me what he does for a living or something about his kids.  I have to be careful with the older ladies as they tend to bring things up about their younger life that I never experienced........so I have to keep a couple of steps ahead of the conversation to be prepared.  That can be stressful!

In any event, when they are looking at you they probably do not have anything gender related on their mind.  They think you are cute or they just want to talk to someone........  And you are cute!

Both times I be had to catch a plane it was only for a bit over an hour and both times the people sitting next to me kept to themselves. It's a lot easier to tune out these days with music and video in most seats! I find that people in Australia who are on city to city flights aren't that chatty. It's people on country town to city flights that want to become your best friend!

Anyway, yeah, it was an unusual experience. I've had a few guys try to chat me up but this person seemed to be doing something very different.

As for being chatted up, I think being taller than most men puts the majority of men off from hassling me. Having spoken to some tall genetic hetro women I know they often have difficulty finding a guy willing to go out with a woman who is taller than them, especially if she is a fair bit taller.

So what is the etiquette around approaching other trans people. Is it Ok, me personally I think I could be Ok about being approached depending on how discreet they were and under what circumstances. Although thinking about it now, it does seem fraught with danger to approach a complete stranger based on a hunch or some perceived signs...could be a very horrible situation if you were wrong or the person considered that you outed them in public...don't know...Thoughts anyone? 

My feeling is that it is never OK to approach someone in public specifically because you think they're trans regardless of how friendly or supportive your intent. Being in public can make many trans people feel very vulnerable at the best of times, especially if they're nervous or self-critical about their appearance. Even having a trans person approach you to ask you about or confide in you about trans stuff could be humiliating depending on one's frame of mind.

By all means, if it is a social function (as opposed to public transport or the corner store) then go up and introduce yourself. In those circumstances it's up to the other person to be out if they choose.

Also, I don't feel it's OK to tell someone you're with that you think another person is trans. A fair while ago I was out with a girlfriend and I saw a person who was trans. No one else was noticing and she was going about doing her own thing apparently oblivious to me. I had a real internal battle to stop myself from telling my friend. It wasn't my business and it wasn't my friend's either so I forced myself to keep my mouth shut.

I went to Kroger back in October. I had just gotten the cover up tattoo that I'd been wanting for a while. It was still quite warm out and I had a tank top on. My tattoo was very visible. When I was ready to check out, I was scanning the lines, looking for that cashier that I thought looked trans* friendly. I quickly spotted this one girl, obvious girl hair style, make up, and the first hints of a dark 5 o'clock shadow in spots. "Aha, another trans woman. Perfect." And I got in her line. As she was ringing my items up, she noticed my tattoo. She asked me about it and I leaned in a bit, as I explained what it was. I was showing her the details, "Here's my birth name, as part of the cage that was holding me back. But the door is open, and I am about to take flight." As I pointed to the bird, on top of the bird cage, I said, "And see, the bird is the colors of the Trans Pride flag." And I could see it, when it hit her, that I had just said "...Trans Pride flag colors." She smiled real big, looked at me, and asked, "Are you trans?" I was smiling right back and said that yes, I am. "Squeee! Me too!" We talked some more while we finished getting me checked out. And when ever I go back, I make sure to get in her line, even if it's not the shortest.

that's fun

I was on the other end of something similar although no speaking involved.  I had just boarded the train from the terminal at Atlanta Hartsfield-Jackson heading out to the concourse to catch a flight.  Having worked at airports I always scan the crowd and as the doors closed on the train, I was looking over all the people in that car.  My eyes passed over an attractive woman and continued on until, almost involuntarily, my eyes snapped back to her.  The problem was, as I looked back at her our eyes met.  Immediately as she snapped her head another direction looking away, I saw her jaw muscles clench and her cheeks reddened some because she knew I had read her.  I still don't know what it was that I picked up on and I really felt so bad because I couldn't get across the car to just offer an "I'm sorry" or anything.  She got off at the stop before mine so no chance to apologize even off the car.  To this day that still bothers me some.

Quote from: Karen5519 on December 04, 2015, 11:46:25 AM
My work requires that I travel a great deal and I find myself on a plane often.  I often worry about who will be sitting next to me for up to three hours.  Some of those people try to get into personal stuff as they have no one else to speak to during that period.  That to me that is very uncomfortable.....and sometimes I wonder......"do they know?"  It always turns out to be a nosy older lady who just wants to talk or some man who ends up telling me what he does for a living or something about his kids.

Karen, as airline employees we were never supposed to tell a passenger we were sitting next to that we worked for the company.  So for years when the curious seat mate got to asking what I did, I would tell them I was an auditor for the IRS and ask their name.  Doesn't work every time to get them to leave you alone and probably wouldn't work on little old ladies but it worked quite often with business men.  

As long as I do not hardly try to pass, no problem at all. I have never met any other m2f transgender here in my country.

Yes. I look extremely tall when I wear 5 inch heels. I can hear some men in the street complain at this.

barbie~~

P.S. I like your new hair style, Grace.

barbie~~

Quote from: barbie on December 05, 2015, 12:42:45 PM
P.S. I like your new hair style, Grace.

Thanks, it's just my normal hair tied back in a loose tail...!

QuoteKaren, as airline employees we were never supposed to tell a passenger we were sitting next to that we worked for the company.  So for years when the curious seat mate got to asking what I did, I would tell them I was an auditor for the IRS and ask their name.  Doesn't work every time to get them to leave you alone and probably wouldn't work on little old ladies but it worked quite often with business men.

Beverly Ann,

I have to tell you that is just fantastic!  I have to remember that one.  You have just made my day.  Thanks!

I'm not so sure about this one really - I know what Grace means (and loving the new picture too  ) but it's always socially awkward.

I've experienced the same thing in a racial context, because I live in a by and large pretty standard white area. By pretty standard white, I mean the people generally are locally settled going back generations. This, I suppose, leads to common factors in looks and features. My own background is something really weird and, because of this, something that doesn't get repeated very often (?)  . I'm a mixture of Mediterranean, Western European, Eastern European, British and Anglo Indian!! My ancestors liked to mix it up a bit lol!! The result is that I've ended up looking, in some people's words, a bit foreign 

Bear with - I know I'm going on a bit here! - but so many times people have tried to claim me as part of their ethnic group. This is generally done in a friendly way but it gets to be a bit of a drag. It's just a shame when I get approached by an eager person looking for companionship or common ground and have to respond for the hundredth time: "Sorry I'm not Romanian/Israeli/Moroccan/Italian or whatever". They end up getting embarrassed and walking off. I'm left feeling like a little bit of an outsider, yet again, as I get reminded that I don't quite fit the mould for what I actually am and feel like I should be - a white British woman. Not that race matters that much to me, of course, but that's what I'd call myself and given who my parents are it's the one that makes sense.

So it may be the case that you miss out on a lovely conversation about trans stuff. Or you could make the person upset, or even get it wrong which is even worse. 

I have no idea what the answer is, I'm just saying that to me it's a bit weird seeming - as it was for Grace. Approaching someone purely based on the way they look and expecting a certain reaction may well end up in failure, as it has for me and my olive-y skin. But then you could meet someone nice... Was there a question? I haven't answered it but it's something to think about  xx

Quote from: Missy D on December 08, 2015, 01:23:02 PM
I've experienced the same thing in a racial context, because I live in a by and large pretty standard white area.

In nearly every country I visit, people recognize and treat me as an exotic person, including my own country, South Korea. People here usually speak to me in English, if they are fluent in English. When I go to Japan, flight attendants speak to me in Japanese. In Japan, they speak to me in English. In Europe and America, they seem to think I am a Chinese.

Exceptional was when I visited China for the first time a few months ago. I can say that all of them speak to me in Chinese. Even when I just arrived at the airport of my country, a Chinese woman spoke to me in Chinese, although most of people there were Korean. She just assumed I am a Chinese.

Here Korean friends joke at me by saying that I look like a woman from South America or Southeast Asia (tropical and subtropical areas), as my skin is usually tanned from outdoor running.

It is interesting, anyway, that Chinese people treat me as their neighborhood. But I hesitate to visit China again, because of severe air pollution (yellow and micro-dust).

barbie~~

Regarding spotting another transperson, I figure it takes one to know one.

Maybe we should have a secret handshake, or something, that communicates, "I'm non-threatening, would you like to chat somewhere quiet?"   

I've thought that too, unfortunately it's not implausible that people who are less than friendly towards trans people would learn it and exploit it.

Yeah, it's awkward.  Like-gendered people tend to gravitate towards one another.  We want to be a part of a community.  But it's not safe.  People who ascribe to the gender binary want to be read correctly, and that means that they want transgender people to read them correctly.  The right thing is to think about how they want to be treated by the world at large: as their identified gender.  And then there's ciswomen whose hair is thin or have dark facial hair; cismen with gynecomastia, and all the other little variations... and these people are frequently extremely sensitive about their conditions, and certainly don't want to be approached.

I'm pretty shameless.  Even in guy mode, I'll ask a woman where she got her coat or whatever (only when I genuinely want that coat!).  It's typically well-received.  They don't expect it out of me, but it's rare to see even a moment's hesitation.  If I'm dressed more feminine, I don't even get the hesitation.  Sometimes it kicks off a little conversation.  Sometimes it doesn't.  Never force; go with the flow; take a hint and leave people alone if they bury themselves in their phones or whatever.

My wife has picked up a bad habit of pointing transwomen out to me.  I'm gonna have to chat with her about that.  Her voice carries.   

Quote from: sparrow on December 09, 2015, 01:51:00 PM
And then there's ciswomen whose hair is thin or have dark facial hair; cismen with gynecomastia, and all the other little variations... and these people are frequently extremely sensitive about their conditions, and certainly don't want to be approached.

Last year I saw a woman at her 40s who was on the line at a women's public restroom. Her body figure was like men's, and I suspected whether she is m2f or f2m. I definitely can say that she was more masculine than me.

And a woman at her 40s in my neighborhood had very low voice. People frequently recognized her as a man on the phone.

barbie~~

Quote from: sparrow on December 09, 2015, 01:51:00 PM

My wife has picked up a bad habit of pointing transwomen out to me.  I'm gonna have to chat with her about that.  Her voice carries.   

Ha! my wife does this too. I'm like... would you hush. I can see her

Like you, i like to talk to people out there. I ask about clothes that i like etc. I've usually been treated pretty well.