I've been thinking about this anyhow and Veronica in another thread mentioned the idea of self-loathing.

I'm sure most of us have heard of "internalized trans-phobia," "internalized racism" or "internalized homophobia." Basically that's where we "hate" or seem to "hate" those most like ourselves.

It's been postulated that a person will grow up with such severe dysfunctions in image that they have a great deal of trouble building self-esteem due to their belonging to a group that is severely rejected or demeaned in the social environment: People of Color in the eyes of Caucasians, Gay people by Straights, and TSes by the born-binaries.

This discomfort and negative self-image make for internal dissonance to such a degree that one actively opposes the existence, relevance, humanness of those 'like' oneself. They externalize their own dislike of "who I am" in that regard and superimpose that hatred on others 'like' them.

Is there such a condition? Does it affect androgynes, TSes, TGs etc?

Whaddya think and why?

Nichole 

Spot on. I've often said that our community is not unlike the African American community in which we feel the need to separate ourselves from others of our group.
'Ghetto Blacks' vs 'Uncle Toms', 'Dark' vs 'Light', 'Primary' vs 'Secondary', 'Early' vs 'Late', 'Passable' vs 'Unpassable', etc.

Being a marginalized and demonized minority makes one sensitive to how we are perceived. Suddenly we care very much how others of our group present themselves. We fear it will reflect on us. And the sad truth is that it does. Stereotypes have their origin in truth of how SOME members of a given group are. And are then applied to all members of said group.

Absolutely! I believe that most of us have internalized a certain amount of self loathing or transphobia. This manifests within the trans community in various ways, some people are divisive and hierarchical, fighting amongst ourselves as to who is ->-bleeped-<-r than though. It can also have the negative effect of keeping each of us individually from being the complete person we are.

y2g

Definitely the idea has merit.

But what percentage of us can fall into that trap?

I was traumatized as a youth because -- it seemed to me -- people would pick on me and call me '->-bleeped-<-got' and 'homo' for no reason.  I had no personal feeling one way or another about homosexuals (having decided I really didn't want to play with someone with the same genitals as I came equipped with -- for want of a better way to put it,) but was taught to be terrified of homosexuals because of being (wrongly) asociated with them.  I could not be comfortable in their presence unless all present understood the boundaries that I was NOT like THAT.

When I finally figured out I was trans amd accepted that (I think having resisted so long because of the stigma,) I lost all fear of homosexuals.

That may be one small point on the continuum this question suggests.  I look forward to hearing others;

Karen

Unfortunately, it's rather extreme in my case. I've considered not transitioning because I know for a fact that my career will be crippled, if not permanently destroyed, if I'm exposed as a "->-bleeped-<-" where I am. In fact, I might be in physical danger.

So, yes, I'm transphobic because of that. Frankly, fearing for one's safety and well-being will do that to a person. I have made up an elaborate cover for not passing and only a handful of people (who knew me pre-transition) know anything other than the story I tell them.

Trans communities are full of hate. I don't like hanging out to many trans people too often, I don't even like to go to group. Heck, I hardly go on here anymore and in all reality, 'cause no matter what I say, someone's going to stay something snobby to me (of course). There's a lot of days now where I really am starting to feel that I don't belong in Susan's anymore.

On top of that, even though I'm confident and I have a good self-esteem, I find myself hating myself at times. There are times when I still consider taking my life, no matter how successful I seem to be now. (But then again, the depression and stuff comes other mental issues). I still have occasional times where I cut myself... something I've been doing since 13.

There are days I don't feel pretty, no matter how much people tell me and how well I'm treated by society. Sometimes I feel like the ugliest girl existing in the universe.

I have a lot of self-destructive patterns built up over the years.

Anyway, this is depressing me, so I think I'm going to distract myself and try to think of something positive for a moment.


--natalie

Quote from: Nero on December 22, 2007, 11:49:54 AM
Spot on. I've often said that our community is not unlike the African American community in which we feel the need to separate ourselves from others of our group.
'Ghetto Blacks' vs 'Uncle Toms', 'Dark' vs 'Light', 'Primary' vs 'Secondary', 'Early' vs 'Late', 'Passable' vs 'Unpassable', etc.

Being a marginalized and demonized minority makes one sensitive to how we are perceived. Suddenly we care very much how others of our group present themselves. We fear it will reflect on us. And the sad truth is that it does. Stereotypes have their origin in truth of how SOME members of a given group are. And are then applied to all members of said group.

I used to live in the Washington, DC area and I was a member of a TS support Group called the Metro Area Gender Identity Connection ("MAGIC").  I met many of our sisters there, some who were post-op, many pre-op, and a lot who had ventured out of the safety of their homes for the first time dressed according to their gender perception.

The leadership was not a "cut-in-stone" thing but it was there for we newbies to learn and question them.  I had no problem being comfortable with them.

Over time I met some girls with whom I became very close, like my Heart Sister, Amanda.  I was with her from the first time she came to a meeting until I moved away. 

I went out with her for a meal or to buy whatever she needed and never went to a "T-friendly" place.  IMHO, everyplace is T-friendly when I am spending money there.

I was blessed with many friends and acquaintances from MAGIC and it is my privilege to have had anything to do with them at all, not to mention help them to transition and leave their fears behind.

I don't loathe anyone, including my TS brothers and sisters.  They get my respect and love until they refuse.  The most I have had to do is to ask them to discuss transsexual things in private only as it is not the business of anyone else.

Wing Walker
Missing My Friends, Hoping to Make New Ones

Quote from the late W.C. Fields:  Attitude is more important than the past, than education, than money, than circumstances, than what people do or say. It is more important than appearance, giftedness, or skill.

Quote from: Wing Walker on December 22, 2007, 09:16:13 PM
I used to live in the Washington, DC area and I was a member of a TS support Group called the Metro Area Gender Identity Connection ("MAGIC").  I met many of our sisters there, some who were post-op, many pre-op, and a lot who had ventured out of the safety of their homes for the first time dressed according to their gender perception.

During transition in 1993-4, I lived in northern VA, a couple of hours outside DC, and attended a few MAGIC meetings. I wonder if we ever crossed paths??

y2g

Quote from: y2gender on December 22, 2007, 10:06:20 PM

Quote from: Wing Walker on December 22, 2007, 09:16:13 PM
I used to live in the Washington, DC area and I was a member of a TS support Group called the Metro Area Gender Identity Connection ("MAGIC").  I met many of our sisters there, some who were post-op, many pre-op, and a lot who had ventured out of the safety of their homes for the first time dressed according to their gender perception.

During transition in 1993-4, I lived in northern VA, a couple of hours outside DC, and attended a few MAGIC meetings. I wonder if we ever crossed paths??

y2g

Hello, y2g, I was not yet out back then.  I came to terms with myself in March 2002 and my first MAGIC meeting was probably in July or August 2002.  I was working with a government agency at the time.

Wing Walker

Hi Natalie. I really feel bad with what is happening with you. I know what depression is all about, I just came out a two week long one ,fortunately it was only a mild one but I don't believe it had anything to do with being transexuality or what ever. I am also bipolar and have been on meds for the past twenty year for it. It use to be bad enough that, instead of cutting, I used an ice pick, don't leave scars.

I still get mild mood swings but I have a lot of it under control then I use to, thankfully with a much greatly reduced amount of meds.

What I really need is to be active out there working with people once again. It worked very well when I was working as a social worker in Ontario.

Well it appears I may have another kick at the can doing social work with TS's at a drop in center in Vancouver. I just need to be out from this apartment that has become like dungeon for me. Just to much hiding in the dungeon. I know that you have a need to be with people as well, just a different type of people.

As far as being beautiful hon  I never met someone so alive and beautiful as you are. Just don't give up. This is a new life we are undertaking, like being reborn, so hang on. I bet there are more wonderful experiences coming up and that is one who is 62 speaking to you. I love life although at times it can be a bit of a challenge closely followed by fear, and uncertainty or just simply a pain in the butt, but then even regular people out there feel like that to.

Cindy