Hi,

It's been a while since I've posted.

I was at my psychiatrist yesterday, who I have been seeing since 7 year, and I was talking about a relationship with a female and I was having some issues with the relationship.

So he tells me after somehow taking my permission to do so: "Woman, when they say something like I feel guilty about it, they are actually ambivalent about it".

I was very pissed off by this comment.  He said something like this a month ago and it disturbed me but again he repeated it yesterday.

For me if someone says "I feel guilty about it" it means exactly that that they feel guilty about it!  It doesn't matter if a male or a female says it, it is a sign to indicate some discomfort in that person.

However, I don't really understand why I am so affected by what he said?  Is it because he is putting down women with his comment? As a person who is discovering my gender identity as non-binary gender with more dominant feminine characteristics, this confused me.  On the other hand did I sense some dishonesty in the way he deals with these situations that he thinks that "feeling guilty" means "feeling ambivalent" when it comes to women?

Maybe he was trying to get a laugh out of this by saying that women can be ambivalent about sex (in a chauvinist manner), but I am not laughing.  I told him that for him he can spew this kind of language because he is privileged that he didn't have to delve so deep to identify his gender, however for me gender is not a given and it is not easy for me to listen to him say these things.

It also made me insecure that such a statement raffles my feathers.  It doesn't seem that I am in a place to identify false statements and respond to their falsehood.  He was able to laugh about women while trying to seem serious about his statement.

So I was wondering how you interpret his comment as I am lost (and a little depressed) about it.

Thank you.

Well if looked at there are two forces...
one that would like to do something,
and another one which would like to stop... inducing kind of a guilty feeling...

so they might be right somehow...
of course not in all cases...

maybe thats what bothers you...

sometimes its also how things are said...


hugs

Quote from: Metroland on December 07, 2015, 10:45:54 AM
Hi,

It's been a while since I've posted.

I was at my psychiatrist yesterday, who I have been seeing since 7 year, and I was talking about a relationship with a female and I was having some issues with the relationship.

So he tells me after somehow taking my permission to do so: "Woman, when they say something like I feel guilty about it, they are actually ambivalent about it".

I was very pissed off by this comment.  He said something like this a month ago and it disturbed me but again he repeated it yesterday.

For me if someone says "I feel guilty about it" it means exactly that that they feel guilty about it!  It doesn't matter if a male or a female says it, it is a sign to indicate some discomfort in that person.

However, I don't really understand why I am so affected by what he said?  Is it because he is putting down women with his comment? As a person who is discovering my gender identity as non-binary gender with more dominant feminine characteristics, this confused me.  On the other hand did I sense some dishonesty in the way he deals with these situations that he thinks that "feeling guilty" means "feeling ambivalent" when it comes to women?

Maybe he was trying to get a laugh out of this by saying that women can be ambivalent about sex (in a chauvinist manner), but I am not laughing.  I told him that for him he can spew this kind of language because he is privileged that he didn't have to delve so deep to identify his gender, however for me gender is not a given and it is not easy for me to listen to him say these things.

It also made me insecure that such a statement raffles my feathers.  It doesn't seem that I am in a place to identify false statements and respond to their falsehood.  He was able to laugh about women while trying to seem serious about his statement.

So I was wondering how you interpret his comment as I am lost (and a little depressed) about it.

Thank you.

First, wonderful to see you back. Seems like it's been a while.

Many people (myself included) find that women and men DO communicate differently in general (though any given man or woman is obviously an individual). This understanding of the world has helped me immensely in deciphering communication when feelings are expressed differently from the way I would express them.

So he may legitimately believe it and was trying the best he could to help you.

Or, as you point out, he may be sexist. There are a lot of non-verbal cues that might have signaled sexist overtones and you picked them up subconsciously.

In your place, I would ascribe the most charitable motive and interpretation.

However, it wouldn't hurt to bring up your feelings about what he said next time you see him.

Thanks for your welcoming words.  Indeed it feels like it's been ages since I've posted here.  Many things have been happening in my life since then, not many of which are about my gender unfortunately.

I understand your point of view however I can't ascribe to the idea of dichotomy here.  It feels like taking out the gender factor eases the tension a little bit.

There is one thing for sure when I objected to his comment is that he didn't mean it the way I describe it.  However I don't think I understand the way he puts it and it seems at odds with my sentiments.  I was happy that I objected to it because at one point we agreed that we are somehow in two different geometric planes where there is no intersection between these two planes.  Then he insinuated again that I think again about what he said, which pissed me off as it seemed like he was a bit cement headed.  There is something he is saying that I can't process and there is something in the the situation with the female I am having a relationship with which is causing me to feel depressed.

However still I do not understand his comment and why it has affected me so negatively?  It doesn't seem clear to me?  I don't seem to see the point he seems to want to convey and whether his comment is worthy of giving it any thought?

Quote from: Metroland on December 07, 2015, 12:01:51 PM
However still I do not understand his comment and why it has affected me so negatively?  It doesn't seem clear to me?  I don't seem to see the point he seems to want to convey and whether his comment is worthy of giving it any thought?

Is it possible that his tenacity left you feeling unheard?

It affects you personally.

You kind of feel hit.

That gives it meaning.

Could you see it in a non emotional way ?
That they are right in some way... like if there was not something done or felt there would be no need to feel guilty...
so something happened or was felt in the first place...
a motivating force...

and there is a second force trying to stop or say it was not right.

Could you see it in a non emotional way, that they are kind of right ?
Sometimes, not in all cases. Its kind of a generalization.

Could you see it as only one possible viewpoint... there are others...
and how it might affect you  ?


hugs 

Thanks suzifrommd and Laura_7,

Suzi,

His stubbornness felt aggressive and it did make me feel unheard. However it also felt that he was bullying me.

Laura_7,

Why would I give him the benefit of the doubt and not give myself that benefit?  Why not try to understand what is going on with my emotions rather than legitimize his thoughts.  Out of the two things, my feelings and his thoughts, I am more sure that my feelings are hurt than what his thoughts mean.

I want to understand what he said because I know for sure that it left me feeling bad.

Well would it help you if you would talk about it with him ?

And making remarks next time if something upsets you...
like how did you mean that... so they could elaborate on their thoughts....
all in a non aggressive setting, just hearing the other out...

its possible they just felt there was another side to it by the ambivalence, one you possibly have not thought about...


hugs

Quote from: Metroland on December 07, 2015, 12:29:05 PM
However it also felt that he was bullying me.

If that's the way it felt, then there almost certainly was something there. Do you think it would be helpful to tell him that you felt bullied?

I don't really think that will help the situation.  If someone is bullying you I doubt that it crosses his mind how you are feeling.  He gets gratification out of bushing your buttons.  I just need to understand what exactly he was eluding to to be able to defend myself.  Or is it really worth it?

I was not feeling great walking into the session because I was trying to tell myself not to bring up any subject with him as I feel that he is not understanding me in many situations.  And then I got nervous and couldn't compose myself and felt pressure to talk, as this is why I am there in the first place right?, and then somehow we got to talking about the relationship with the girl, which went pretty much downhill from there.

I don't know what to do.  I feel so stressed from feeling without support and I am having anxiety about cancelling my next session, which is somehow what I feel I should do.  But I am feeling anxious about it.

Quote from: Metroland on December 07, 2015, 01:13:05 PM
I don't really think that will help the situation.  If someone is bullying you I doubt that it crosses his mind how you are feeling.  He gets gratification out of bushing your buttons.  I just need to understand what exactly he was eluding to to be able to defend myself.  Or is it really worth it?

I was not feeling great walking into the session because I was trying to tell myself not to bring up any subject with him as I feel that he is not understanding me in many situations.  And then I got nervous and couldn't compose myself and felt pressure to talk, as this is why I am there in the first place right?, and then somehow we got to talking about the relationship with the girl, which went pretty much downhill from there.

I don't know what to do.  I feel so stressed from feeling without support and I am having anxiety about cancelling my next session, which is somehow what I feel I should do.  But I am feeling anxious about it.

It does not sound to me this is someone you are comfortable discussiong your deep emotions with.

It should be possible to ask how a remark was meant... and discuss different viewpoints.

I personally would look for another counselor, one you have a feeling of mutual understanding and of trust.

Well its often if something new is tried it makes anxious...


*hugs*

Yes we go way back in therapy and I thought that we are on the same page, however it seems that we were on the same page because we agreed on ideas, however as things are getting more real, I am not liking his reality so much.

I don't really want to change as I don't have many options.  I think that I will somehow find an excuse not to go to my next session that way I will have some breathing space and he will too.

If it were me and I felt bullied by my therapist, I'd try talking it out for one, maybe two sessions.  But if I still felt unheard, I'd walk.

Even if the psychiatrist was helpful to you in the past, you might have gotten to a point where he isn't helping any more.

I had a therapist I was seeing for over 20 years, and she was quite helpful for most of that time.  However, I reached a point where it was less about dealing with specific neuroses and the like and was -- or would have been -- more about me finding out who I was.  She wasn't all that good at validating my perceptions when they differed from hers, which meant I was spending my time handling her reactions to what I was feeling instead of trying to figure out what I was feeling and what it said about who I was.  So when I left, it was as much with relief as with sadness.  (We never got to my gender issues, I seriously doubt she could have dealt with my being trans.)

IMHO, it's really important to feel your therapist is on your "team you."  You should be able to discuss your relationship with your therapist with the therapist.  If you fear he won't accept it or will gaslight you, there's no theraputic relationship left.

Also, I can't help thinking: if you have to come here to figure out how to deal with him, maybe you should be paying us instead of him.    (<-- that's a joke, BTW.)

Thanks everyone.  Sorry for the late reply.

Thanks Asche.  Indeed I am finding it a bit difficult to communicate with the psychiatrist at the moment since I think I am getting really deep into what I feel is important for me and it seems that we are having difficulty seeing eye to eye.

I have decided to cancel my next appointment with him due to scheduling conflict with work.  I will give myself some breathing time.

I agree with you about the payment will be sending it to you guys pronto .  But really he is supposed to be paying me rather than me paying him.  I sometimes feel that I am the one benefiting him not the other way around.  Which is quite sad but it seems that I do a lot of reading outside the session and he needs to keep up with me.