So, it's something that has fascinated me as much as being entirely complete as a woman and that is having everything done but getting the final operation, or atleast putting it off.  I haven't been able to pin-point much on the subject, how it's treated.  Just about anything I look for on it turns up a lot of... uck sites, guys with horrible boob jobs messing with themselves or whatever.
I know for a fact that this is something that I've been interested in being ever since I started learning about sex.  Perhaps it's a strange mixup of wanting to be very feminine but still haven't an attatchment to that part, or it's from a warped sense of sexual identity, or whatever, it's just that I think that I need to find out what it's like being like this before I can go onto the next step.

I don't know if therapists reccomend hormone therapy for transsexual patients who don't feel the immediate need for SRS.  I don't know how legal gender change recognition could happen or any of that stuff.  I know that Susans is a very conservative site and this might be way out of normal but it's simply something that has to be address, seeing as there is a very large trans community that is well beyond being simple crossdressers, but falling short of SRS, and seem to live just fine with a mixed up identity and some even seem proud of it. 

So, I guess that's what this whole thread's discussion is for, anything about it.  Please don't go flaming people for being who they are.  And I do consider these people transsexuals still, they have no desire to be seen as male in any way, shape, or form, except when everything's off.

I know exactely where you are coming from kalt and SRS alone certainly doesn't make anyone a woman......

I've seen gorgeous girls in Brazil who still have their thingy......and definite looking men in London who don't have their thingy....

There is a lot to being a women and being percieved as a woman..........and it's not all just about genitalia or SRS.

A mixed up identity might be a perfect match for a mixed up world.  The older the person is, the shorter the period in their life where real SRS was possible.  That adds into it.  And there are just a lot of different paths in life that people can take.  Its not like engineering where there is one best solution.  Different wants and needs move people one way or the other.  There are different places and background too.  Even in the SRS there are several distinct paths that people seem to travel on.  Access to resources is a critical factor for many.  I think how you came about incorporating being TG into your life - or how you never do - has a lot to do with it too.

Don't let yourself feel judged by anyone, dear Kalt. You know who you are. And if SRS is not right for you, so be it. Anatomy is not identity or destiny.

Quote from: kalt on December 20, 2007, 03:29:18 PM
I don't know if therapists reccomend hormone therapy for transsexual patients who don't feel the immediate need for SRS.  I don't know how legal gender change recognition could happen or any of that stuff.  I know that Susans is a very conservative site and this might be way out of normal but it's simply something that has to be address, seeing as there is a very large trans community that is well beyond being simple crossdressers, but falling short of SRS, and seem to live just fine with a mixed up identity and some even seem proud of it.

There are two types of transwomen, those who want srs from the start and those it's not an issue in their life. Sounds simple, and for many it is that simple. Some of the latter change their mind as they transistion. The reality is that without srs you'll always be in between genders legally, maybe having some documentation changed, such as drivers license (name and sex) and employment, credit, etc. (name). In every state it is the requirement for legally changing your birth certificate, except  Ohio right now, to be legally female to have all your state and federal documents changed.

And yes, a therapist can recommend hrt and a physician prescribe it, if only so you can see what happens. Any physicians will require you to recognize and understand the effects of hrt and accept all liablity and responsbility for your health - most have forms to sign. They will prescribe dosages based on their experience with others and yourself, how you react and develop. You will be the judge, so remember don't sacrifice your health.

Good luck.

--Susan--

Thank you all, these were quite the opposite of the replies I was expecting, actually.

The truth of the matter is that I grew up with the desire to be female.  My father was a very pornographic man and somehow I ended up viewing all that anatomy and stuff from a very young age.  As I grew older, I get obsessed with looking at it myself.  Some of it was as sexual as could be expected for a 9 or 10 year old kid, other bits of it were from a strong envy to have those bodies, the female bodies.  I came across the entire heshe ->-bleeped-<- scene one day and that seemed to be a kind of large turning point in my life, when I one: realized that transition was possible and two: found a new sexual attraction, er... identity.  As much as a women I want to be in society, sexually I guess I want to be be that inbetween deal, strange and such.  I'd actually love to end up shooting some scenes and having some fun in that kind of community.  Of course, I have other goals in life, like being a doctor and finding a stable, life partner and even children.  So the operation is going to happen, I just want to see how long I can delay it.  I guess if after two years I still want more satisfaction from living in between, and I have lost all my muscle and pass convincingly and beautifully(as i know I will), then I could lower the hormones to lower my risk for health complications and rely on previous feminization, boobs jobs and the assets I already have for passing, seeing as I'm a very feminine looking individual already.

But yeah... this is a part of the trans program that seems to only be addressed in pornography.  I don't see any support of it besides a small bit of myspace community, and even that is highly sexual in nature.  It's something that's genuine, that's very real, and that needs to find more attention in this area of the human psyche that is crying out for it all the time.

Many of these adult models hit it big doing their thing, and then some get surgery and already have connections to continue high class modelling for big labels, without even having to take r-rated shoots after surgery.  It's an amazing thing that a model has, to have it known to herself and everyone else that she's on top of something, that she's beautiful and attractive.  It might seem shallow but, models are some of the happiest people I know.  Of course, some get on drugs and mess up and all but, overall, I think it's a great thing to consider, along with regular college and all^_^

Quote from: kalt on December 21, 2007, 08:53:56 PM
Thank you all, these were quite the opposite of the replies I was expecting, actually.

The truth of the matter is that I grew up with the desire to be female.  My father was a very pornographic man and somehow I ended up viewing all that anatomy and stuff from a very young age.  As I grew older, I get obsessed with looking at it myself.  Some of it was as sexual as could be expected for a 9 or 10 year old kid, other bits of it were from a strong envy to have those bodies, the female bodies.  I came across the entire heshe ->-bleeped-<- scene one day and that seemed to be a kind of large turning point in my life, when I one: realized that transition was possible and two: found a new sexual attraction, er... identity.  As much as a women I want to be in society, sexually I guess I want to be be that inbetween deal, strange and such.  I'd actually love to end up shooting some scenes and having some fun in that kind of community.  Of course, I have other goals in life, like being a doctor and finding a stable, life partner and even children.  So the operation is going to happen, I just want to see how long I can delay it.  I guess if after two years I still want more satisfaction from living in between, and I have lost all my muscle and pass convincingly and beautifully(as i know I will), then I could lower the hormones to lower my risk for health complications and rely on previous feminization, boobs jobs and the assets I already have for passing, seeing as I'm a very feminine looking individual already.

But yeah... this is a part of the trans program that seems to only be addressed in pornography.  I don't see any support of it besides a small bit of myspace community, and even that is highly sexual in nature.  It's something that's genuine, that's very real, and that needs to find more attention in this area of the human psyche that is crying out for it all the time.

Many of these adult models hit it big doing their thing, and then some get surgery and already have connections to continue high class modelling for big labels, without even having to take r-rated shoots after surgery.  It's an amazing thing that a model has, to have it known to herself and everyone else that she's on top of something, that she's beautiful and attractive.  It might seem shallow but, models are some of the happiest people I know.  Of course, some get on drugs and mess up and all but, overall, I think it's a great thing to consider, along with regular college and all^_^

Go for it. There's plenty who chose those options. Just do what makes you happy.

Pornography is as natural as prostitution.  As old as the hills!

I too envied those gorgeous female bodies.  I wanted one too.  I also thought that the ->-bleeped-<- pornographic world held somewhat of an attraction for me.  It was all transitory. 
Maybe my libido died early.  Maybe my T level dropped off the face of the map  overnight.  I don't know what it was but my recent feelings prove that my desire to be female has absolutely nothing to do with any sexual desire.  I will actually be happy to be a 52 year old (unattractive) woman.

I am honestly overjoyed that some of these '->-bleeped-<- models' are happy, because that is not the impression that society portrays.  I stand to be corrected.

There are understandably many reasons for staying non-op; sex, finances, fear, relationships ....
I personally do not undertand the idea of being a non-op.  Just a personal thing.  I accept that we are all different.  There are a lot of other things I don't undertsand either.  I hope it doesn't make me ignorant.

I have alays had the desire to be completely female.  I still have a long way to go.  It is my personal dream.  I am old fashioned, and find it hard to learn new tricks, but if a form of boutique sexual/gender orientation is made available, I am sure that society will always find a way to profit from it.

Do you really want to have children of your own?  You could adopt.  Or get a dog.

My therapist recommended HRT without any confirmed commitment on my part.  She quite rightly believes that there is a spectrum of possible outcomes. One to suit every individual.  The journey is really an obstacle course with consequences.


Hugs

jenny

Hrrm.  There's a thing called sperm banks, I guess I should look into them, eh?

The odds of finding love, fame, and fortune in porn are not good.

I have a friend who is a pre op transsexual and doesn't want SRS. She is NOT a ->-bleeped-<- and works everyday as a female. She looks female and has all the right mannerisms and ticks all the right boxes. I have also seen many post op transsexuals who sadly do not look female.......Femininity is completely instinctive, and naturally built into a persons persona so there is something far more to being female than a genital operation which isn't a cure or a magical trick that makes someone suddenly become female...

I was non-op m2f ts for a few years before coming to realization of myself as androgyne. As far as I'm concerned, it's a valid trans identity, although it seems to be derided by some who don't believe that it exists. Be who you are, there are many unique expressions of transgender!

y2g

Before I transitioned I felt that SRS was not a priority, that social transition was the most important thing.  I also realized early that my financial resources were not strong enough to devote a large portion to something that only I would benefit from.  I have others who rely on my support.

That said, now that I live full time my body dysphoria has increased.  I never used to hate looking in mirrors, now I do, especially when the male bits are exposed.  On top of that my political and social rights, as was mentioned, are severely impacted because of my in-between status.

For me, the best thing would be that we can get protection from discrimination because of our medical status, that the exclusion for trans people would be removed from the Americans with Disabilities Act.  Then, the insurance companies would not be able to exclude us from coverage and many many more currently non-op trans people would be able to finish their transitions.

hugs & smiles
Emelye

I know non-op people and Androgynous people as well.

I think for a non-op and Androgynous person it can be hard to be in the trans community because they don't conform to what everything "thinks" they should conform, to.

Hmmmm...well, the term non-op has a history.  This is what I said on a different thread:

Quote from: Tink on November 24, 2007, 02:40:46 PM
Initially the term non-op transsexual was introduced by Harry Benjamin to identify those transsexual people who couldn't have SRS due to medical reasons.  Eventually, the term became a wee bit less stern and more people started to identify with it, especially those who couldn't afford surgery.  However, IMO, I think that there are people out there who aren't transsexual but identify with this term as a way to justify their behavior.  I have met people in the past who wanted to have their penis enlarged surgically but said they were non-op TS

This is the kind of behavior that needs to stop.  If you can't have surgery for medical or financial reasons, then yes, you are a non-op transsexual (some will prefer the term pre-op though but whatever..).  Nevertheless, a transsexual will never choose to have *that thing* enlarged instead of having it removed.  Such behavior doesn't fit the definition of TS by any standards.

tink

Also, a term that is not well-known in the community to identify a non-op transsexual is transgenderist.

http://www.firelily.com/gender/gianna/transgenderists.html

tink

Quote from: Tink on December 22, 2007, 01:46:52 PM
Hmmmm...well, the term non-op has a history.  This is what I said on a different thread:

Quote from: Tink on November 24, 2007, 02:40:46 PM
Initially the term non-op transsexual was introduced by Harry Benjamin to identify those transsexual people who couldn't have SRS due to medical reasons.  Eventually, the term became a wee bit less stern and more people started to identify with it, especially those who couldn't afford surgery.  However, IMO, I think that there are people out there who aren't transsexual but identify with this term as a way to justify their behavior.  I have met people in the past who wanted to have their penis enlarged surgically but said they were non-op TS

This is the kind of behavior that needs to stop.  If you can't have surgery for medical or financial reasons, then yes, you are a non-op transsexual (some will prefer the term pre-op though but whatever..).  Nevertheless, a transsexual will never choose to have *that thing* enlarged instead of having it removed.  Such behavior doesn't fit the definition of TS by any standards.

tink

Also, a term that is not well-known in the community to identify a non-op transsexual is transgenderist.

http://www.firelily.com/gender/gianna/transgenderists.html

tink

I'm sorry Tink, but you're being pretty close-minded on this subject.  A transsexual is someone who wants to be the another gender.  Surely you're not going to imply that non-op transsexuals identify as male, are you?

Reading what you wish was said instead of what was said is a common ailment
on all forums since the dawn of the internet. It sure makes for a more
world more polemic than it actually is...

Quote from: Kiera on December 22, 2007, 07:28:11 PM

Quote from: kalt on December 22, 2007, 07:10:25 PMA transsexual is someone who wants to be the another gender.  Surely you're not going to imply that non-op transsexuals identify as male, are you?

Ouch! If the shoe fits Kalt!

She said it appears some alledgedly "non-op transsexuals" really don't fit the profile. 

Your not reading properly.

Oh.  Silly me.  Luckily I have an automatic apologiization machine to make up for my frequent mishaps.  Mmhmm.

Quote from: kalt on December 22, 2007, 07:10:25 PM

I'm sorry Tink, but you're being pretty close-minded on this subject.  A transsexual is someone who wants to be the another gender.  Surely you're not going to imply that non-op transsexuals identify as male, are you?

Hmmmm....I know I can be close-minded about certain issues, Kalt, but I don't think I'm being shallow here.  Sorry to be blunt but no, I am not being shallow.  Anyhow Kalt, I DISAGREE with you anyway, a transsexual; is someone who is ALREADY one gender , but has the body of the other.  We DESIRE TO LIVE AND BE ACCEPTED AS MEMBERS OF THE MENTAL GENDER.  This is generally accompanied by the strong desire to make our BODIES (NOT OUR GENDER) congruent as possible with our true gender (MENTAL gender) through hormones and surgery.  As a reference, I NEVER WANTED TO BE FEMALE, I WAS ALREADY FEMALE, do you know what am I saying?  Perhaps, this is the distinction between people who ARE and those who "WANT TO BE".

tink

I am a non-op male to female transsexual.  I have a medical condition that precludes any surgery other than a liver transplant.  It would be very dangerous.  I have been medically stable for several years now and when I began transition I knew that GRS may not be in my stars.  Three months into transition my hepatologist confirmed my fears.  I have been able to undergo hormone therapy and it has been very effective for me.  I'm passable and I live my life full time as a woman.  I have a good career.  I'm respected by my colleagues and clients.  I've changed my name and gender legally and despite not having surgery I'm legally a woman and my birth certificate says so.  I've learned to live with many limitations and this is just another one of them.

I've never hated my body, well, maybe when I'm overweight.  The important parts of transition for me are in my heart and in my head.  Very few people see me without clothes and only one doesn't have an MD following their name.  My journey has been spiritual and I've chosen my path despite the obstacles in my way.  You gotta work with what ya got 

BTW Irony of ironies, my insurance covers GRS and other surgeries to a lifetime benefit of $75,000

Do you really think that you can change the nature of what you are merely by wishing it? - LK Hamilton