Why do we want to transition?

A theory I have is that after we meet our bodily needs, everything we do is related to our desire to feel love. Thus, to answer my question, I tried to imagine myself in a world where I was the only human. In this situation I don't think I would have a concept of what it means to appear my gender, as there would be no one to contrast myself against. Thus, transitioning would not have any meaning to me.

Using this thought experiment and my theory, the answer to my question seems to be we want to transition in order express how our inner self contrasts with other individuals' inner selves, so that we can we loved for who we are. I've expressed this conclusion to one other transgender individual, and it resonated, but maybe I'm entirely off, so I would love to hear how you would answer this question.

The reason I want to is so I can look in the mirror and say, "What up, my main man!"  I say that to myself already even though I have not medically transitioned yet. But after I do, it will actually mean something to me.

Not to sound like a narcissist, but I am caring less about others' opinions of me and more focused on my internal self and aligning that with my external self for me and no one else.

Yes, life is good when you are the one who truly loves yourself even if no one else does.

I have to say this really resonates with me as well. I read a quote from somewhere a while back which basically stated that who we are is some combination of our inner selves and the way we interact with the people around us.

For me, those two halves are so far apart that it gives me serious concern about who I really am. For a long time, before I was aware of this dichotomy, I felt empty. As if all I was capable of doing was interacting with others, or working on some project, or just keeping myself busy. I felt outside of that, that there was nobody inside, no emotion, no soul. Ever since I've been able to glimpse who's actually down there, and to even accept her, I've wanted nothing more than to let her free. I want to transition because for the first time in a very long time, instead of feeling empty, I find my inner self bursting at the seems, ready to live life.

I'm not sure that's all of it, it's not all about an external manifestation for me. There are parts, completely invisible parts, that I think I would long for even in the thought experiment world. Specifically, the hormones. Simply put, I like the way my brain runs on estrogen, even without accompanying physical changes. I'm still a baby when it comes to hormones, my body has yet to really feminize, and yet I feel better than I ever had on them. I can't double blind this and remove the placebo effect from the equation, 'natch, but that's just how it's working for me. Thus, I conclude, that even without a "contrast" I would want to transition, to put the diesel in my diesel engine over the unleaded that was there before.

To. Be. Healthy.  Period.  Since I was 19, I've had my fights with the bottle.  I always thought I was a binge alcoholic.  In college, every Thursday night in the dorms (party night) I tried to drink myself into oblivion.  As I got older I binged less and less often, sometimes going years between binges.

In the past ten years, I also suffered panic attacks, anxiety, and high blood pressure.  Alcohol also started to creep back into the picture, with me sometimes drinking three or four beers on a Friday night when I was feeling the stress.

But when I came out to myself and started crossdressing, a funny thing happened.  The high blood pressure went away.  The panic attacks stopped.  And I have not touched a drop of alcohol since, other than one glass of wine on Thanksgiving.  And I stopped with that glass of wine when I started to feel a little drunk.  There are six or seven beers in the fridge that have been there since April or May.  I just do not have the desire to consume alcohol any more.

It turns out I'm not an alcoholic.  I'm a girl.  And it matters a lot to me to see a girl when I look in the mirror, even if she is not attractive.

Hi Tamika,


I also feel like it may not be all of it. When I was imagining the thought experiment, I wondered what would happen if I came across something that increased my estrogen. Would I want more of it? I'm tempted to say yes, but I question why a more feminine mind set would be pleasing to me in isolation.

Quote from: autumn08 on December 14, 2015, 05:55:15 PM
Hi Tamika,


I also feel like it may not be all of it. When I was imagining the thought experiment, I wondered what would happen if I  came across something that increased my estrogen. Would I want more of it? I'm tempted to say yes, but I question why a more feminine mind set would be pleasing to me in isolation?

Our brains are pleasure seeking, pain avoiding devices, crafted by eons of evolution. We don't subjectively seek food because we know our bodies die without it, sleep because our brains decay without it, or sex because our genes don't get passed on because we can't have it... we seek to do these things, subjectively, because they feel good. For whatever reason, be it genetic or hormonal, our brains crave estrogen. We'd keep seeking it, even without an understanding of why, because it feels good to us. 

I agree that all of our experiences are subjective, and that we are inseparable from our bodies, but it would seem evolution created our hormones to help us survive socially.

Also, I agree we act, and then reason, but would the body create pleasure when ingesting the hormones of our gender, without a society?

Eh, evolution doesn't really care about our survival. It's all about passing on the genes. And not necessarily the genes in our bodies. Kin selection is one of the more prominent evolutionary explanations for homosexuality. The thinking goes that our siblings carry most of our genes, and in some cases selection pressures favor behaviors that allow the gene copy in the sibling to survive, even at the expense of the genes in the host body. Homosexuality could have evolved as a resource diversion mechanism in kin selection processes, the gay person is not worried about passing on their genes, so their resources can be partially diverted into helping the sibling survive. A similar explanation could exist for the craving of opposite sex hormones. Us being trans could help other versions of the trans gene (or genes) survive in our siblings.

Or, alternatively, transness could be a evolutionary misfire. Dawkins attributes altruism in a modern society to a misfiring of the instinct towards reciprocal altruism. We survive in the wild based on our status with in groups, and we can lower that by failing to pay kindnesses or return on past kindnesses. In the modern world, that group memory for our status is rarely present, but our minds are still firing on those old triggers, we are kind due to that misfiring. Maybe, in the modern world, being trans doesn't do much for our genes, but in our evolutionary past, the behaviors associated with being trans lead to some increased survival chance. We just live in a world where we can take those behaviors to their full and complete fruition, even if it nixes our ability to pass on our genes. Which, by the by, isn't necessarily a bad thing, overpopulation being what it is.

Or it could be a mutation in our genetic code, or an event in the womb environment, or an epigenetic trigger. In any case, the mind is the play thing of the body (which includes the brain) and we would be this way even without the social context provided by existing gender structures.

Also, I agree we act, and then reason, but would the body create pleasure when ingesting the hormones of our gender, without a society?

I don't see any reason why they wouldn't. I reason we would also eat, sleep, and masturbate. Without the social net of other beings of our species, we wouldn't pass on our genes by doing so, but all the same programming would be there.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge about evolution, Tamika. I don't doubt at all that homosexual and transgender individuals are the product of evolution.

Of course the desire to be female would still exist at least in a latent state, in the thought experiment world, as it is innate to us, but would the body ever activate this desire? Would it be like still possessing the ability to be hungry, but never feeling hunger?

Maybe the issue is that I'm trying to separate bodily and social needs, even though I know they both derive from the body. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking that our social needs, require a society to activate, but I just can't imagine the form that would take, without there being a society present.

Quote from: autumn08 on December 14, 2015, 07:41:03 PM
Thank you for sharing your knowledge about evolution, Tamika. I don't doubt at all that homosexual and transgender individuals are the product of evolution.

Of course the desire to be female would still exist at least in a latent state, in the thought experiment world, as it is innate to us, but would the body ever activate this desire? Would it be like still possessing the ability to be hungry, but never feeling hunger?

Maybe the issue is that I'm trying to separate bodily and social needs, even though I know they both derive from the body. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking that our social needs, require a society to activate, but I just can't imagine the form that would take, without there being a society present.

I can only answer with my own experiences. Intellectually, before coming out to myself, I didn't know that I was trans. It took a magic bullet, a missing puzzle piece, to bring that realization to the front. I felt depression, anxiety, and disconnect from my body. I can't imagine I would feel any different in a world with no cis-women around to compare to. My brain would still want the estrogen, and hate the T, I just wouldn't ever get the magic bullet in that world. Unless I ate an estro plant or something of that sort.

It's the engine analogy again. Take the diesel engine, put it in a world where no engines exist, load it with unleaded and it's going to destroy itself. Take a brain that, by it's genetic design, needs Estrogen and run it on T... and you get an unhappy brain. Even if the brain can never figure out why it's unhappy without social cues to direct it.

I think the reason I don't entirely agree the engine analogy is parallel, is because I believe society is essential for there to be an engine. I can't see how changing the ratios of estrogen and testosterone would mean anything without it. Society, to me, seems as much a part of us as our bodies.

Quote from: CarlyMcx on December 14, 2015, 05:53:39 PM
To. Be. Healthy.  Period.  Since I was 19, I've had my fights with the bottle.  I always thought I was a binge alcoholic.  In college, every Thursday night in the dorms (party night) I tried to drink myself into oblivion.  As I got older I binged less and less often, sometimes going years between binges.

In the past ten years, I also suffered panic attacks, anxiety, and high blood pressure.  Alcohol also started to creep back into the picture, with me sometimes drinking three or four beers on a Friday night when I was feeling the stress.

But when I came out to myself and started crossdressing, a funny thing happened.  The high blood pressure went away.  The panic attacks stopped.  And I have not touched a drop of alcohol since, other than one glass of wine on Thanksgiving.  And I stopped with that glass of wine when I started to feel a little drunk.  There are six or seven beers in the fridge that have been there since April or May.  I just do not have the desire to consume alcohol any more.

It turns out I'm not an alcoholic.  I'm a girl.  And it matters a lot to me to see a girl when I look in the mirror, even if she is not attractive.

This is so inspiring and touching for me to hear.

I struggle with urges such as the one you spoke of about alcohol binge drinking. My mom has drank much of her life since age 19 (like you, except it sounds like you've overcame this monster in the nick of time) up until about age 59. As an irreversible result of her ways with alcohol, she is finally paying the price with the loss of her memory (dementia.) She can't even remember important conversations, such as the one I had with her when I came out to her.

I'm glad transitioning saved your life...literally.

I guess for me, alcohol is a way for me to self-medicate against horrors such as social anxiety and depression. Sometimes they get so bad in public that I look like I am mad at the world, but in reality, I am very afraid. Alcohol lifts me off the ground and feel like I can do anything.

But I wish I knew another way. Luckily my budget sucks major eggs, so I don't have the luxury of hoping in a car of my own whenever I please and drive to the gas station or corner store for a couple of 40 ounces like my mama used to do every single day. Oh yeah, she also screwed up her liver, made it hard from heavy drinking and also has acquired cirrhosis of the liver.

So yeah, its a great thing you stopped. I'm proud of you for that, Carly.

Quote from: autumn08 on December 14, 2015, 08:29:32 PM
I think the reason I don't entirely agree the engine analogy is parallel, is because I believe society is essential for there to be an engine. I can't see how changing the ratios of estrogen and testosterone would mean anything without it. Society, to me, seems as much a part of us as our bodies.

The brain is a thing, just like the engine. If the thing requires "X" to operate and maximum efficiency, then it requires "X" no matter what universe you plop it down in. The only away from that conclusion that I can see is epigenetics. Societal pressures are the epigenetic switch that causes the brain to switch on a need for a particular hormone. Absent a flick of that switch, the craving could never surface. Like if the engine had a dual fuel chamber and a switch that makes it run off of a single type only (my ignorance of combustion is showing, methinks).  Absent a finger to flick the switch, the default would be towards both.

It's possible, I suppose. We just don't know enough about the biological roots of gender identity.  At the end of the day though, those are very particular circumstances, and there's no reason to prefer that as an answer for gender identity over any other biological explanation. So, to answer your original question, we transition because something in our brain, be it a genetic hardwire or a flipped epigenetic switch, commands us to do so.

Some people may do it to be more easily loved and accepted but I can't agree in my case. I am not loved nor especially accepted and I don't really care. I only need the level of acceptance that means an angry mob isn't baying at my door or people aren't firing me or punching me on sight. I mean, sure, I'd like to be loved for who I am but that doesn't seem to be happening. And I just gotta live my life in the meantime, there isn't time to hang around waiting for other people to start loving and accepting.

The reason I want to do it is because I want to see if I can be happier with myself, and for myself. Not really for anyone else.

I agree, no man is an island, but there will always be that small % of us who never really fit in and don't lose much sleep over the fact. We know we exist within society and are subject to it, but it doesn't really determine our path.

Quote from: T.K.G.W. on December 14, 2015, 08:47:07 PM
And I just gotta live my life in the meantime, there isn't time to hang around waiting for other people to start loving and accepting.

The reason I want to do it is because I want to see if I can be happier with myself, and for myself. Not really for anyone else.

I agree, no man is an island, but there will always be that small % of us who never really fit in and don't lose much sleep over the fact. We know we exist within society and are subject to it, but it doesn't really determine our path.

Awesome.

Thank you for the conversation Tamika, and for answering my question in such an extraordinary manner. I hope it doesn't seem like I am trying to diminish our experience, because I don't think the cause makes a difference. I just felt it was an interesting subject to talk about.

I need to go now, but thank you everyone for responding, and I will check on this thread tomorrow.

Quote from: autumn08 on December 14, 2015, 08:55:35 PM
Thank you for the conversation Tamika, and for answering my question in such an extraordinary manner. I hope it doesn't seem like I am trying to diminish our experience, because I don't think the cause makes a difference. I just felt it was an interesting subject to talk about.

I need to go now, but thank you everyone for responding, and I will check on this thread tomorrow.

Happy to have the conversation, and I never got the impression you were trying to diminish. I'm a big fan of gaming this stuff out on philosophical and scientific spectrums, so I had a lot of fun!

Dear Autumn:

Here's an interesting link: http://www.trans-spirits.org/spirit_of_transgender.html

I have no basic disagreement with what you have said, though I would personally add that the matter of 'self' looms large in this discussion, or as some native Americans might say, "The spirit."  There are things going on within the transgender person at the moment of gender variance that don't occur in others, especially a profound lack of connection to who we versus how the world perceives us.  Society sets many trip wires throughout life for the trans-person revealing to us a lack of connection or misalignment if you will, but I think misalignment gives the trans condition short shrift.  We have much more than that going on before us consciously and subconsciously as we sense we are not connected to who we truly are.

Turning to early American culture: Our spirit and corporal being are not sufficiently connected to allow us to live without significant dissonance in our lives, as the corporal world jarringly confronts us with societal interactions bombarding our spiritual sense of being. This occurs through various queues, mores, rules, proxies, etc. that when presented to us are more like miscues and at the best make us uncomfortable and often finding life full of unacceptable/unwanted protocols, rules, proscriptions, etc.

There's quite a bit written about this . . . a little Googling will provide a wealth of information.

Liked your comments a lot.  Thanks,

Rachel