Although I think I should post this elsewhere, For whatever reason I have decided to post it here.

Before I begin I would like to say I honestly don't believe I am intersex I just feel a little unsure.

Anyway I had my testosterone levels looked at and it came back quite a bit below average. I am 20 and should have a very high level at that age.

My suspicion started when I found out that my arms are out of proportion to my high (eunchoid body type), I am not developing facial hair and look way younger than even 20.

I seem to show many of the symptoms of klinefelter syndrome. I have dyslexia dyspraxia and Number blindness.
I also had a language delay and was taken to a speech therapist as a kid. At this point you would think I would be totally conviced, but not quite.

Me and my brother both had tests for down syndrone when we were in the womb and the doctor looked at our chromosomes and even could tell we were both male...."Male". 

Surly KS would of shown up on this test I have as a baby? right? 

While I suspect you aren't intersex, it is possible for you to be intersex and not have it show up in the tests that they ran. If you have questions about this, you should ask your doctor as there are other test that you might wish to have run if you are interested. In the end, it doesn't make much differences how you became the way you are because the treatment will be the same. I had the simpler test run on me years ago as the more advanced test didn't exist. I am happy with my life now and see no need to run the newer test because they won't make any difference in my life.

Thanks for the reply. I have to say I do check out for many of the signs and after all I do seem to have hypogonadism. KS is the most common cause of it.

It may instead be androgen insensitivity syndrome. There is no way of knowing. It may even be my ->-bleeped-<- having a physical sign.

I should see the doctor.

the ks results i've seen were not low for a 20 year old male, they were no where near male range at all. Mosaic klinefelters could avoid showing in tests but again I think the testosterone would not be in male range. the free T and LH levels give more clues as they a different for AIS and KS.

Being that your chromosomes are normal and T is in normal range probably isn't much to worry about.

Quote from: highlight on December 17, 2015, 05:12:15 PM
There is no way of knowing. It may even be my ->-bleeped-<- having a physical sign.

All known intersex conditions can be tested... you can ask GP to refer you to genetic clinic and start from there.

Klinefelter's would show if they made karyotype test...

Being transsexual shouldnt have a directly related physical sign.. at least there havent been any proof of anything like that as of yet. Undirectly related could be having underdevelop body structure and lack of muscle development because of depression and physical neglect of body. From one extreme to the other, some transsexuals try to overcompensate with sports and lifting weights and bodybuilding, some other avoid any kind of physical activity.

For many of us here in the USA, there has to be a health reason to do the necessary tests.  Cuoreosity won't get the tests run.

Sorry

Hugs

Jen

Lot of replies here I will try to respond to as many as I can.

Quotethe ks results i've seen were not low for a 20 year old male, they were no where near male range at all. Mosaic klinefelters could avoid showing in tests but again I think the testosterone would not be in male range. the free T and LH levels give more clues as they a different for AIS and KS.

Being that your chromosomes are normal and T is in normal range probably isn't much to worry about.

I heard that some of the cases of Mosaicism were not found until an autopsy and the testostrone level is not always affected (usually though).  MAIS can also be hard to detect with testosterone levels and may also cause milder symptoms. 

Remember though the above information was got from wikipedia so it might not be true. As for my chromosomes again I don't know how many cells were tested so mosicism or MAIS may still be on the table. It  simply  does not seem normal for a 19 year old to have the testosterone level of a 60 years old.

QuoteBeing transsexual shouldnt have a directly related physical sign.. at least there havent been any proof of anything like that as of yet. Undirectly related could be having underdevelop body structure and lack of muscle development because of depression and physical neglect of body. From one extreme to the other, some transsexuals try to overcompensate with sports and lifting weights and bodybuilding, some other avoid any kind of physical activity.

There is not proof, but there is evidence. Being transgender in FTMs has been associated with higher T levels and digit ratio has also been shown to be affected.  Although in my case I think the likely answer is the one you gave, My life style is not healthy at all and depression is a constant companion. My vitamin D levels also came back low, backing this up.

QuoteFor many of us here in the USA, there has to be a health reason to do the necessary tests.  Cuoreosity won't get the tests run.

I live in the UK and I originally had the blood test to get T levels done just on a wim. I did not expect the test to  come back low.

Quote from: Lagertha on December 17, 2015, 06:11:40 PM

Klinefelter's would show if they made karyotype test...

This isn't really true, karyotype only tests a small amount of blood cells, you can absolutely have XY blood and still have mosaic klinefelters.

QuoteThis isn't really true, karyotype only tests a small amount of blood cells, you can absolutely have XY blood and still have mosaic klinefelters.

Actually in my case the test was done prenatally and the cells were taken from the "embryonic fluid" so I don't know if they were blood cells or what. All as I know is the test said I was male and I was negative for downs syndrome. I see no reason why if the test showed I was KF, the doctor would not of mentioned it to my parents.

Any who I have made an appointment to the doctors on Monday. So I will discuss it with them. Perhaps in the meantime I should ask myself whether being intersex as a result would be good or bad. 

An awful lot of us MTF and transfeminine types have the eunuchoid body structure and other symptoms of hypogonadism (and conversely, a very high percentage of FTMs seem to have symptoms of hyperandrogenism). I think the evidence is strong that ->-bleeped-<- is actually a kind of intersex condition, except one in which the brain has been much more affected than the genitals. As with other intersex conditions, it's the result of having abnormal hormone levels (or a reduced androgen receptor response) during your prenatal development, except during the second and/or third trimester (which is when the important differences between male and female brains appear to arise), rather than the first trimester (which is when genital development takes place).

For more about this, read my answer here:
https://www.quora.com/What-causes-a-person-to-be-transgender/answer/Hugh-Easton-1

QuoteI think the evidence is strong that ->-bleeped-<- is actually a kind of intersex condition, except one in which the brain has been much more affected than the genitals. As with other intersex conditions,

Yes! Finally someone says it! The sooner both transgender and intersex people understand this the better.

Quote from: highlight on December 20, 2015, 11:41:49 AM
The sooner both transgender and intersex people medical bureaucracy understand this the better.

fixed

Hay HughE you said that doctors don't like treating or diagnosing Hypogonadism..why is that?

Quote from: highlight on December 21, 2015, 08:47:27 PM
Hay HughE you said that doctors don't like treating or diagnosing Hypogonadism..why is that?

A variety of reasons I think.

Ignorance probably plays a big part. Hormones can't get much coverage in medical schools, since most doctors don't seem to have the first clue about them (for instance my GP doesn't know the difference between primary and secondary hypogonadism). Rather than admit that they don't know anything about hormones, it's easier for a doctor to pretend that there isn't a problem in the first place. This isn't helped by the fact that most of the symptoms of hypogonadism (depression, fatigue, muscle wasting, osteoporosis etc) aren't immediately visible, so as far as the doctor is concerned, most men with hypogonadism probably don't look like there's anything wrong with them.

Another important consideration is that the standard treatment for hypogonadism is testosterone, which (due to abuse by bodybuilders) is a controlled substance. Doctors have to jump through extra hoops in order to prescribe testosterone, which they don't have to for most other prescription medicines. It also places them at heightened risk of being sued or struck off if anything goes wrong.

Also, here in the UK, the official guidelines for when to treat hypogonadism are based entirely on blood total testosterone measurements, not symptoms, and if your total T is above a very low level (12 nmol/l I think), it's considered "normal", and you're not eligible for treatment. This is despite the fact that 12 nmol/l is less than half the average total T level in normal, healthy adult men. In other words, it's just some arbitrary criteria that the NHS have come up with that means they avoid having to treat people.

It's possible that past HRT disasters have something to do with it too. Until quite recently, nearly all hormone treatment has tended to involve synthetic rather than bioidentical hormones (mainly because that's what the pharmaceutical industry have been pushing). Synthetic hormones all appear to become toxic when used continuously over a long period of time, which is what happens with HRT! There have been a number of quite serious HRT disasters in the past, during which large numbers of people suffered serious adverse health consequences (including death). The ones I know about are DES, ethinylestradiol, premarin and provera for women's HRT, and methyltestosterone for men's HRT. Despite the fact that those hormones are all synthetics, it's probably led to HRT with bioidentical hormones being tarred with the same brush in the minds of a lot of doctors.

I have actually asked elsewhere and they give pretty much the same answer that you did. Which is always a good sign.

I went to the doctor and he did ask a few odd questions and he even measured my height. I am tall for my short family. I am the tallest in my household by quite a bit.

He has decided to find someone who will do the tests and he will give me a call when he has.  I am probably going to have a few of my cells looked at to make sure that I don't have klinefelter syndrome.