Quote from: Catherine Sarah on December 14, 2015, 09:38:01 AM
The devastating debilitating effect violence has on women is soooo profound and gut wrenching that it defies description.

The thing is, AFAIK, most Women's Festivals are not abuse support groups.

A year or so ago, someone I know went to the Michigan Women's Music Festival, which is sort of the poster child for trans-exclusive women's events.  The way she described it, it was not exactly focussed on being a "safe space" for abused women.  Sleeping in a tent in the middle of a cow pasture, mud, port-a-potties, mob scenes.  It didn't sound like it was all that different from a concert in Central Park (except that Central Park is more civilized.)  It was, if anything, more like "N days not surrounded by dude-bros."  If there was any display of genitalia, she didn't mention it.

I can see having "safe spaces" for abused women, but it seems to me that you'd need to do more than just exclude men (however defined) to make them safe.  Not to mention that plenty of women are abused by other women.  (E.g., abuse in lesbian relationships, abuse by female relatives, etc.)

As a person who serves on the board of directors of a sexual violence non-profit serving some 3,000,000 people, I'm not buying the violence argument as a basis for descrimination against a pre-op transgendered woman. 

Last year in our area, about 20% of the incidents were against men.  About another 15% was against transgendered individuals.  Sexual violence knows no bounds.

It was a conference for women.  It was descrimination.

Unfortunately, descrimination knows no bounds either.

Jen

I find myself asking the question why would any transgender person wish to attend such a festival?

Is the billing of women's festival, the main draw?
Does attending such an event serve as a form of social validation?
Or would my presence increase social awareness?
Or does the prospect of being denied entry offer an opportunity to draw media attention to the "transgender cause"?

I fear all these arguments tread on thin ice. In a practical sense, how does one allow transgender inclusivity without also destroying gender exclusivity?

If you view the world as a series of gates all you end up doing is gatecrashing. This is a festival not a battleground. To declare victory through gaining access brings to mind the old adage:- choose your battles wisely (because you might win!)

Or perhaps we all secretly crave social membership which offers "just enough exclusivity" to validate our identities but not others?

In any case, this is the sort of event I would choose to leave well alone.

Quote from: cathyrains on December 15, 2015, 01:35:50 PM
I find myself asking the question why would any transgender person wish to attend such a festival?

Wouldn't it be for the same reasons a cisgender person would?

Quote from: suzifrommd on December 15, 2015, 01:48:46 PM
Wouldn't it be for the same reasons a cisgender person would?

Ergo the second line of my post. Please do try to read all the words.

"A women's festival in Australia will not allow trans women to take part – and has banned discussion of the issue."
[/quote]

Well, that is certainly democracy in action. More like a dictatorship.

Love,
Clare

7 Sisters seems to have back tracked, this is on their web page


"Seven Sisters Festival


4 hrs ·
.

Seven Sisters Festival has never had an official policy regarding the participation of transgender and intersex women. However, it has been the philosophy and intent of the festival, since its first year, to welcome all women. Transgender and intersex women have attended past festivals.

Official policy is not represented in the published reply to Kylee which is cited by the media. Recent events have highlighted the significance of this omission and the necessity to address it.

Therefore, the Seven Sisters team wish to issue its official policy regarding the participation of transgender and intersex women in the festival as follows:

Seven Sisters Festival welcomes all women, including: women of culturally and linguistically diverse backgrounds (CALD), women of transgender, intersex and diverse sexualities, women of diverse abilities, and women of diverse religious backgrounds and belief. Our position is one of full participation in what is a large, public event. We recognise the diversity of our community and will be working within a framework of affirmative action and self-determination.

We have employed a cultural, sexuality and gender advisor and we are consulting with various advocacy groups to ensure the festival is inclusive, welcoming, and safe for all. Your assistance is also welcome in this important journey. Suggestions can be forwarded to our 'Cultural, sexuality and gender advisor': katie@sevensistersfestival.com

Our team, have contacted Kylee and her partner, seeking to apologise and we also wish to extend an apology to the transgender, intersex and seven sisters community for any duress and confusion we may have caused.

You can now find this statement officially on our website "

Well, at least they had the decency to eat some crow and publically apologize. Still, what of the trans women who pass really well? They probably wouldn't of had any problems so in a way it was also a beauty contest. Look good and you're in? Not all of us can look like a Miss Universe!

Love,
Clare

Quote from: TG CLare on December 18, 2015, 12:17:47 PM
They probably wouldn't of had any problems so in a way it was also a beauty contest. Look good and you're in? Not all of us can look like a Miss Universe!

This remind me of Caitlyn's words "trans women shouldn't look like men in dresses", I guess a lot of people think the same way ....

Quote from: mzaomz on December 18, 2015, 12:25:49 PM


This remind me of Caitlyn's words "trans women shouldn't look like men in dresses", I guess a lot of people think the same way ....

To be fair, that was the editors choice for a headline. What Caitlyn said was:

"If you're out there and, to be honest with you, if you look like a man in a dress, it makes people uncomfortable"

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on December 18, 2015, 02:41:34 PM
To be fair, that was the editors choice for a headline. What Caitlyn said was:

"If you're out there and, to be honest with you, if you look like a man in a dress, it makes people uncomfortable"

...and she did later apologize for saying that too.

Yes, thanks for adding that. 

Hugs, Devlyn