Typing speed can be fixed. I make 13 post a day as well as PMs and I am finding my typing speed is improving. Another issue is my keyboard is about a year old and I am wearing the letters off it. Most noticeable is the "E" key is getting really faded. A month without voice may improve your typing speed. I know Susan sure improved mine 

It looks like when the surgery came undone it it didn't fail all the way. It looks like maybe you still had about a 10% tie in place. You seem to heal pretty well because there isn't any signs of the surgery on the cords where they opened up.

Take care of yourself and keep us posted.

Thanks for the comprehensive update, Elaine.  It's interesting that in the second set of photos (surgery #2) there is almost no web present before surgery. I'm no expert, so this is total speculation, but I'm thinking that the web never formed or it was so small that your cords were still able to come together even at 9 days.  With the stitches still in place, the bottom third of your vocal cords were artificially pinched together, resulting in a higher pitched voice.  However, when the stitches were undone there was nothing to hold things in place and the bottom third was active again. 

My stitches also came out (at 7 weeks) but in my recent scope there is a visible web, albeit covered in granulation tissue.  Hopefully the tissue will disappear in the coming weeks and the web will remain strong and permanent.  All I can do is hope for the best.

Sending all the good healing vibes I can your way! Thanks as always for the detailed updates.

Hey Elaine!

Just a comment regarding the gauge of the suture: in my Pre-Op consult I did ask Dr. Haben if he could use a thicker gauge with me since I read so many nightmare stories about it coming out early. He did say that a thicker suture would cause the voice to be altered in a negative way and said that the suture he uses is the best for the procedure--this leads me to believe that he only uses one suture, though I could be wrong. Might just be easier to ask him.

Hope the healing continues

<3
Audree

Dena:

I have increased my speed but sometimes going fast is really slow. Certain spell checkers predictive programming make a hash of things, sometimes a single replaced letter can change the whole complexion of a sentence of make something seem as a slight to someone. I HAVE to proofread everything carefully and still the occasional slip-ups occur. I stroke out over stuff like that...

kwala:

Finger tapping my nose vigorously in agreement. So it isn't just me that saw that anomaly... There was only a bit of pain and no blood or the like.  Still don't get though how there was still 20 - 25 hertz improvement in virtually all recordings made after the event. How would swollen vocal folds help as they are thicker therefore one could logically deduce they would vibrate at a lower frequency.

I don't know how Dr Haben could say there was a big improvement, I forget the number, have to see if I can find that message. His measurement methodology is somewhat enigmatic in that comparing to what I have to use for pitch measurement (PRAAT, tone generators, guitar tone tuners, etc...) don't necessarily directly translate. Not trying to paint him into a corner, BUT it was instantly obvious that my voice lost pitch (my wife noticed it right away) and he still was sending what I thought was overly encouraging words. 

To put a different way as I am not a physician, if a person using one of my machines called and said "listen, it is making very markedly different sounds" I would not say, "yeah, it is getting better, sounds great, check back in 6 weeks."

It could certainly have saved me around 5 months of my life waiting and eventually having surgery #2 which was so obviously needed. I would be skiing this year rather than having to push things to next season. It probably sounds to some like slagging somebody but I am offering my subjective opinion based on objective evidence.

Nothing to do about it now but take care of round 2.

Audree:

That is an interesting comment as I was specifically told the opposite when I re-booked with him for round 2 and asked about how to help ensure a permanent, successful outcome.

Have to see if that was in a message or it was verbal as I don't recall that detail. (Note/update: I do have a email specifically referencing using "a slightly heavier gauge suture" sent by Dr. Haben)

Thank you all very much of you for your thoughts and observations, I really do appreciate them. Please do feel free to ask me anything and ideas and comments are welcome.
 
I hope the holiday season is a happy time for all.

Be safe

Elaine

I have the impression that he relies more on the CTA part of the surgery now than on the glottoplasty, since that is maybe a 20% suture at best... thats a bit odd, but I guess he has to balance it out, otherwise you end up with a voice that is too high when combining both methods.
You are right, there is NO visible leftover of the first surgery, fascinating...

I believe all these issues with the thread - it coming out too early, not being tight enough, the need for it to be very thin to not affect the voice negatively - all of this is probably why Dr Kim uses permant threads...

First day with the new voice... Again...

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0WdHpWmRCMn

Here's a clip from today in the first half hour of speaking again. A bit surprised is anywhere close to usable, though not powerful. Enough to be heard in the same or an adjacent room without difficulty. Now the don't talk notices can come down. Yea!!!

Quite obviously, I need to explore things. This time around I had been silent for the past 31 days. Dr. Haben was specific about NOT going beyond a month. For most days to that time I have been taking Ibuprophen. They were quite difficult to swallow at first as they are the industrial size. Got pill swallowing 101 down now for the most part. 

Note: I would emphatically recommend against using gel type ibuprofen caps. If they dissolve quickly and if they get stuck, they start do release their contents in your throat, which can burn.

So far, it has been more difficult not exercising than not talking.

One gets to notice things when going longer periods of time as opposed to a 8-9 day period. It teaches how utterly unprepared you are to deal with life. It demonstrates how unprepared others are to dealing with muteness. There is a definite marginalization that happens when trying to conduct day to day chores. Another thing is when people realize you are functionally mute, is a lot of sorry and apologies and... PITY. I really don't care for that part at all. Others seem to want to try and be done with you as fast as they can. Between gesticulating and writing, there is a genuine sense that people want to get past you and on to someone else. Didn't get the sense of that last time around as it was a quick 9 days spent mostly at home. I seriously considered the possibility of what would happen if I got pulled over for a traffic stop. Having to reach for a pad and pen could be misinterpreted.

Anyway, thats all for now. Time to go play with the shiny new voice a bit more. While it will be interesting to see over time how things progress it is something I'd rather be done with now. Things could definitely be worse, I do realize...

Be safe
Elaine

Sounds very good for only 1 month!!

I think it sounds good because the timbre changed. The pitch is better, too. There is roughness and vocal fry of course, but behind that one can hear a well hiegher pitched voice that has that female ring to it. especially in the second half of the recording. Congrats and good healing.

Today is 1 week since I started speaking again after VFS. I made a clip if anyone is interested...

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1RaqOPUFkjy

Last Sunday I had resumed an online Italian language program. It is a really basic from the start sort of course. Anyway, Sunday through Tuesday I was doing about 30 - 45 minutes a day, speaking gently and using earbuds to hear the fine details in the speakers voice.

Wednesday, 13.Jan.2016, my voice was getting tired so I stopped around 25-30 minutes in. Shortly afterward I felt a soreness that wasn't there when I was speaking. I very gently cleared my throat and had a small, about 1/3 the size of my pinkie nail small, bit of phlegm come up that was tinged pink.

Of course I was freaking out but that was the only phlegm that came up. I was producing copious quantities of saliva (gross, I know, just want to try and be accurate) that was clear save for a micro fine, vellus hair thin, line of red in a few of the saliva samples I looked at. The red line things were definitely not stitch material. The salivary out put diminished about as quick as it came on.

I weighed sending Dr. Haben a message and eventually dithered enough that the day was gone and would decide Thursday. When I got up Thursday, my throat was much more sore, about a 4 of 10, than the day before and I composed a message to Dr. Haben, still haven't heard back (:-<). Here is a copy of the message FWIW:

snip>
"Addressed to:Dr. Michael Haben Dear Dr Haben: Hello again. I started speaking on Saturday as that was the 31 day mark and was surprised to have any sort of usable voice, albeit, weak and a bit unstable. I am still off of ANY exercise of any sort. Of course I am still on the omeprezole and am being careful with my acreage very careful diet. I have not spoke at all prior to Saturday, day 31. Surprisingly to me, I have totally avoided any coughing by drinking a lot of water especially if there is a tickle in my throat and with meals. During the day I have restarted my online Italian language course since Sunday through Wednesday 13.Jan.2016, speaking gently into the computer direct in front of me. Yesterday, I felt my voice getting tired and stopped. A bit of soreness developed in a short time, about a 2 or so on a scale of 1-10. I had a small bit (about 1/2 the size of my little fingernail) of mucus come up when I very, very gently cleared my throat and it was tinged pinkish. It was not lumpy at all. I did produce more mucus for a while though it was completely clear but for a single micro fine (vellus hair type thin) hairlike line of red in a few of them. It was not suture as it was truly micro thin. The mucus itself was clear though. I immediately went into voice conservation mode. This morning I have not spoke save for making a short rainbow passage recording I can send if you like. During the recording, my voice sounded pretty much the same as yesterday, though a little weaker. I wasn't pushing my voice at all however. Shortly after waking this morning, I noted my throat was sore to about a 4 out of 10. It feels like the soreness is more to the left side rather than it being more to right side yesterday. Prior to yesterday I have had NO pain at all for the last 2 weeks. Do you think I should do a round of antibiotics? Voice rest for a few days? Do you think the 1 pink tinged mucus from yesterday was from the suture dissolving (5 weeks exactly tot eh hour, 3pm)? Or what else could I be doing to help during my recovery process? The recording I made today sounded pretty much like my voice the last few days but there is the sudden soreness that has me scared. This time HAS to work out and I want to take no chances. I am not a baby about the soreness and can deal with that. I give the pain level as a point of reference not me being a whiney baby. It is the THOUGHT of what could be going on and how to ensure things don't break down like last time. I know you get many panic messages from other girls that have had VFS and do perfectly understand that it is very early on in the recovery and plan on taking it easy for the coming month. I understand patience, I live patience, I AM patience incarnate(:->) having got through this for the second time 7 months after the first. Please advise at your earliest convenience. Thank you in advance for your thoughts and help. Be safe" <snip


But I did stop talking until this morning and will minimize usage for a few days to come. Not fully stop, just cut back on usage till I hear back. The soreness is mostly gone and I compared this recording with others I made on a daily basis during the Italian course. To me it sounds pretty much the same and on PRATT the numbers confirm what I hear.

My guess is that the stitch has dissolved (EXACTLY 5 weeks to the hour!) and that was the cause of the soreness and red tinged sputum. Of note on Wednesday, was the fact the soreness was to the right side of midline and on Thursday morning it was definitely to the left of midline. Now it is not very sore, 1-10 maybe, especially compared to Thursday morning.

I know things could be MUCH worse and still am a bit surprised my voice was usable though not very strong. Even if I get an all clear from Dr Haben, I am still going to reign in things a bit for a little while.

Random thought while composing message to Dr Haben... I have seen a few of the replies that others have C&P'ed to a post and they are, to me anyway, almost form letter the same. Does he write them, I wondered???

Going to make a few more posts here over the coming weeks and will give a review opinion around 3 months possibly longer. I feel semi obligated to do so as much of my research to VFS was from here or linked to post from here. Same for FFS, but that is a completely different story...

Be safe and heres hoping you all have a pleasant weekend.

Elaine

Your voice clip sounds very good and clear compared to my voice that that stage. I'm 1 week away from 4 months, and my voice still gets tired/strained pretty easily. I do notice some rare moments without hoarseness which gets me very excited, but the majority of the time the voice still sounds hoarse and a bit strained. I am hopeful that I will fully heal, it's just a matter of time I think, and I've already mentally prepared myself that it could take longer than 6 months for me. Because you said your voice is sore, I think you should try to rest your voice as much as possible these days until the soreness is gone.

A language course at 5 weeks? I think you are still early for heavy voice usage and it will take time for the strength to return to you vocal cords. If you overuse your voice at this stage, I would expect this to happen. I would use the voice but take it easy on it for now.

The voice sample sounds very good with both pitch and inflection. You even have the little noises of expression taking advantage of the higher pitch which yells female.

Hello again to all who may be looking and listening.

I made another recording today as it is now 2 months plus a couple days post VFS with Dr Haben. I will let the recording be pretty much all of my post. It is longish at around 9 minutes. If you are interested, try a set of earbuds and closing your eyes to focus on the voice. I try to do that with all the clips I see here and it does help.

Also, if you or some you know is considering VFS in general and a CTA in particular, especially with Dr Haben, take the time and listen and add it as a data point in your research. It is nothing special and I guess that is my point.

Just a thought...

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0EpZYrsniRN

Be safe and enjoy the upcoming weekend.

Elaine

Quote from: Elaine S on February 11, 2016, 04:52:15 PM
Hello again to all who may be looking and listening.

I made another recording today as it is now 2 months plus a couple days post VFS with Dr Haben. I will let the recording be pretty much all of my post. It is longish at around 9 minutes. If you are interested, try a set of earbuds and closing your eyes to focus on the voice. I try to do that with all the clips I see here and it does help.

Also, if you or some you know is considering VFS in general and a CTA in particular, especially with Dr Haben, take the time and listen and add it as a data point in your research. It is nothing special and I guess that is my point.

Just a thought...

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0EpZYrsniRN

Be safe and enjoy the upcoming weekend.

Elaine

Elaine, I just listened to your message and here are a few thoughts.   Throughout your two surgeries you have provided some really wonderful, useful information for those in the community who are considering surgery and that is to be commended a thousand times over!

I especially appreciated your demonstration of the "cut off point" where your range bottoms out.  I don't know that anyone has demonstrated that so clearly before.

I think your voice sounds great.  It's hard to be completely unbiased after hearing it so many times, but I believe that if I didn't know you and I heard you on the phone, I would assume I was speaking with a woman.  An intelligent, thoughtful, and sweet woman at that!  I do disagree with your wife on one point in that I would not use the adjective "harsh" to describe the tonal color of your voice at all.  I think I would choose "mellow."

That being said, I do agree with you that your voice does not sound very different at all from the results of the first surgery.  While that must be a little disappointing, the good news is that you have a wonderful voice and, after getting to know you a little bit, I think it suits your warm and caring personality.   

Elaine, yours is unmistakably female. I don't think you have any problem with your voice, other than your own criticisms. I imagine that at six months when it's expected to fully recover will you see even higher magnitudes of improvement!! Just something to look forward to (:

Audree

Yes, Elaine, your sound very feminine. People also told me my voice sounded strained at the two months  mark. My voice has since improved, but the hoarseness is not completely gone yet. Hopefully you can have a quicker recovery than me!

So after listening to the voices of a number of folks here, I can somewhat conclude that age might have a factor in how our voices turn out in the end. I know that might be obvious, but the older we are, the longer we will heal so it'll take quite a while longer for some of us to achieve the end result. Also, the older we are, perhaps the less likely our voices will change all that much. Going into this surgery the first time I was prepared for this. Dr. Haben said that he could raise my voice 7 semitones and, using my pitch-formant software, I was able to hear an approximation of what my voice might sound like. I thought to myself, "Wow, that'd be great if I sounded like that." But then I thought realistically and said to myself, "Well, I'm 45 (at the time I was back in 2013), so if I end up with 4 or 5 semitones higher, let's see what that sounds like" and the result was still pretty good. Going into any surgery, I think in this way: what is the best scenario? What is the worst? What is the middle? Am I prepared for the worst if it happens? Unfortunately, I wasn't prepared for the worst when I did my VFS the first time. The worst was no real change at all. With every other surgery, there were good, even great results, so VFS was frustrating for me. Anyways, I'd be glad if I got decent results of 4 or 5 semitones. I just have to be patient with my downtime. I'm thankful for reading all of your stories and experiences. I didn't have a forum like this to learn from at the time of my VFS.

Geekgirl, it's funny how everyone has different expectations going in.  I will say that like you, I tried to simulate what my results would be in terms of best, average, and worst (no change).  What I didn't account for, and wasnt warned about, was an extremely exaggerated healing time.  It's been so long since I've been able to go out in public without fear that I won't be heard or understood that pitch has been the least of my worries these days.  Recent progress suggests that my pitch has gone up quite a bit, but after 4+ months of anxiety, having no social life, awkward conversations, etc it feels like much of the joy I should be experiencing has been taken away.  I'm just ready to have a working voice in any shape or form and leave this period behind.

I'm glad that there is so much information here and I hope that continues as more and more surgeons start helping the trans community with these types of procedures.  Keep us posted if you decide to have a second surgery.

I was 63 years old when I had my surgery and Dr Haben has put me on his web page as a 64 year old example. Different vocal cord lengths limited my tie but I am seeing a 70-80 Hz improvement over my pre surgical voice. Note that my before and after voice is a trained voce because the surgery alone isn't enough to push my original voice into the feminine range. It would take about 130 Hz if I were to use surgery alone. This isn't a big deal for me because I have used a trained voice for so long that it's hard for me not to use it. Dr Haben is pretty good at hitting target voices now except he undershot mine and it's  a bit higher than his initial estimate.