...and it was really weird.

Earlier last week I had arrived at a bus station and was waiting for my friend to get me. So as I stood outside the station, this guy was sitting next to me and just looks me up and down and asks something like 'Do you find it hard being trans?' ... I was just stunned, because that's the first time anyone's even noticed I was trans without my pointing it out. In fact, there have been times I've come out to people and they thought I wanted to become a guy... So for this guy to just instantly clock me like that, and then have the audacity to just say that right off like he was absolutely certain, just had me floored. He was nice enough, says he supports trans people, and didn't want to offend. Said it was my chest that gave me away? Like it wasn't quite proportional to the rest of me? Ugh... seemed way too flimsy an excuse to call me out like he did. And then he asked if I was going to have 'the surgery'.. I'm like 'Welll my genitals aren't any of your business. It's not like I'd come up to you and ask you how big your dick was..' and he said I was right and apologized, saying 'Well now I know that's offensive to trans people'. Then he asked a bunch more questions over the next 10 minutes.. I tried being educational, even though he was a bit annoying, and kept apologizing for it. It also made me uncomfortable that he was going on about this stuff with people walking by, and not even trying to keep it down. And then there were times where I was veering away from his line of questioning because it felt like he was still trying to figure out what was going on in my pants.. Some people can be so inconsiderate, and just goes to show how freakin' alien we can be to cis folks. But yeah, the whole situation really bothered me. :/

I find that it's inevitable that I'm clocked now and then. I usually how they knew, and the answer tends to be something like "I just knew. I'm good at spotting it." I think there may be things about my body shape that are atypical enough for a female that people pick up on it.

Alas, sensitivity has not been doled out evenly. Some people have a generous share but it seems that this gentleman is a bit deficient. It's not much of a consolation, but hopefully you set him straight, so the next trans person he clocks doesn't have it quite as bad.

Hugs.

This person said he support trans people.. he could be one in the closet too. I've read  about trans stuff online for about 10 year before deciding to do my transition . I am just pointing that he must have read a lot about the thing to be able to "clock" you like that.  Remember that even cis are getting read wrong sometimes you are pretty i am envious of you and you have nothing to be concerned of . 

The best people at picking trans people from a crowd are those who are trans themselves or those who work with trans people (therapists, etc)/have a lot of connection (friends, family, colleagues). But it has limits. I consider myself pretty good at trans spotting (see what I did there?) but even I can be really, really wrong...either not picking someone who is trans or thinking someone who is cis is trans. Regardless I never ask them. That guy just sounds like a rude jerk, it was none of his business and if he was really supportive of trans people he'd know that making that kind of assumption or comment in public to a person is simply wrong.

Yeah, I notice that too, most people are kind of oblivious to someone being trans either because they have no experience with trans people or what the word even means, or because some people don't really "people-watch" or look closely at others in public, but there's always some people who do look close and then there's the ones who can't help but open their mouth about it. I think maybe because the ones who do stare or examine other people are generally not bothered if they are doing it, not bothered about being vocal in public and asking personal questions too... maybe oblivious to their own forwardness or forcefulness.   

There's probably gonna be that 1 in 100 people who do this and give you a surprise even if you pass well. I'm expecting it to happen a lot more often to me.

I got clocked by 6 guys the other night at a bar n they all asked if I had the surgery n I said no n they all said dam n I said why u ask n they said cause we wanted to hav sex with u. Some people just know Wat to look for.... Dosnt mean u look less of a woman cause these guys told me I looked complete woman and a hot one at that, but my shoulders Made them wonder n my Adam's apple confirmed it.. Needless to say they Gave me acid later that night n tried to take me home.

Sorry you had to endure all of that, sounds super crappy

I always wonder how I would react if I found myself in a similar situation. I think I'd just ignore the person honestly.

First of all Ashey, hugs.

In my opinion, even the most passable girl can be clocked because there's always that one person that can just see right through us.

I think you handled yourself pretty well and I think it's none of his business asking those questions. I admire your class and grace handling that situation.

Be well and chin up lady, you are beautiful.

April xo

Quote from: archlord on December 27, 2015, 03:35:13 PM
This person said he support trans people.. he could be one in the closet too. I've read  about trans stuff online for about 10 year before deciding to do my transition . I am just pointing that he must have read a lot about the thing to be able to "clock" you like that.  Remember that even cis are getting read wrong sometimes you are pretty i am envious of you and you have nothing to be concerned of . 

There was something off about him.. but I don't think it was that. I'd be more inclined to say he was gay. But then, he could also be umm 'inclined' towards our kind, and maybe that's how he noticed.

Quote from: Angélique LaCava on December 27, 2015, 04:32:04 PM
I got clocked by 6 guys the other night at a bar n they all asked if I had the surgery n I said no n they all said dam n I said why u ask n they said cause we wanted to hav sex with u. Some people just know Wat to look for.... Dosnt mean u look less of a woman cause these guys told me I looked complete woman and a hot one at that, but my shoulders Made them wonder n my Adam's apple confirmed it.. Needless to say they Gave me acid later that night n tried to take me home.

Yeah, I mean, if you're pretty you're pretty, and that seems to win out. I've had guys disappointed that I'm pre-op but they keep talking to me and their desire overrides that initial disappointment or discomfort. And of course sometimes just being 'exotic' or 'unique' makes them super interested, even without specifically fetishizing. Oh and he did comment on my adam's apple a few times though, noting it was hardly there. He was pretty amazed by that... I felt like I was being examined when he kept looking at my neck. >_>

Quote from: Lady_Oracle on December 27, 2015, 05:35:27 PM
Sorry you had to endure all of that, sounds super crappy

I always wonder how I would react if I found myself in a similar situation. I think I'd just ignore the person honestly.

I was trying to keep my composure, and I do try to educate in situations like this, but this is usually online or to someone I purposefully told, not someone who approached me, so it was rather unsettling which is what made me uncomfortable the most.

Anyway, it's just a bit disheartening that it happened. I know I'm pretty and passable, heck he even said all that.. I guess after two years I've let my guard down and become complacent, so this really blindsided me. I didn't expect it to happen. Just makes me a bit more paranoid now, and makes me wonder how many others 'know' but haven't approached me. But then I think about the people who I've told and couldn't believe it. Idk, maybe that still puts me in the cis range since even some cis women occasionally get 'clocked' too, only difference being his assumption happened to be right. Ehh, just one incident though. I will try to calm down and forget about it, lol.

Quote from: Ashey on December 27, 2015, 06:45:11 PM
There was something off about him.. but I don't think it was that. I'd be more inclined to say he was gay. But then, he could also be umm 'inclined' towards our kind, and maybe that's how he noticed.

Yeah, I mean, if you're pretty you're pretty, and that seems to win out. I've had guys disappointed that I'm pre-op but they keep talking to me and their desire overrides that initial disappointment or discomfort. And of course sometimes just being 'exotic' or 'unique' makes them super interested, even without specifically fetishizing. Oh and he did comment on my adam's apple a few times though, noting it was hardly there. He was pretty amazed by that... I felt like I was being examined when he kept looking at my neck. >_>

I was trying to keep my composure, and I do try to educate in situations like this, but this is usually online or to someone I purposefully told, not someone who approached me, so it was rather unsettling which is what made me uncomfortable the most.

Anyway, it's just a bit disheartening that it happened. I know I'm pretty and passable, heck he even said all that.. I guess after two years I've let my guard down and become complacent, so this really blindsided me. I didn't expect it to happen. Just makes me a bit more paranoid now, and makes me wonder how many others 'know' but haven't approached me. But then I think about the people who I've told and couldn't believe it. Idk, maybe that still puts me in the cis range since even some cis women occasionally get 'clocked' too, only difference being his assumption happened to be right. Ehh, just one incident though. I will try to calm down and forget about it, lol.

I'm still talkin to 1 of the 6 guys n I told him I didn't think I was so obvious and he said your not obvious but u would be surprised at what people notice when they look you over 100 times. It was the first time someone actually said they knew without someone telling them and honestly don't care anymore cause even if I get clocked atleast guys find me pretty/hot. I've seen many hot transgenders who r obvious transgenders.

Quote from: Ashey on December 27, 2015, 06:45:11 PM
There was something off about him.. but I don't think it was that. I'd be more inclined to say he was gay. But then, he could also be umm 'inclined' towards our kind, and maybe that's how he noticed.

Yeah, I mean, if you're pretty you're pretty, and that seems to win out. I've had guys disappointed that I'm pre-op but they keep talking to me and their desire overrides that initial disappointment or discomfort. And of course sometimes just being 'exotic' or 'unique' makes them super interested, even without specifically fetishizing. Oh and he did comment on my adam's apple a few times though, noting it was hardly there. He was pretty amazed by that... I felt like I was being examined when he kept looking at my neck. >_>

I was trying to keep my composure, and I do try to educate in situations like this, but this is usually online or to someone I purposefully told, not someone who approached me, so it was rather unsettling which is what made me uncomfortable the most.

Anyway, it's just a bit disheartening that it happened. I know I'm pretty and passable, heck he even said all that.. I guess after two years I've let my guard down and become complacent, so this really blindsided me. I didn't expect it to happen. Just makes me a bit more paranoid now, and makes me wonder how many others 'know' but haven't approached me. But then I think about the people who I've told and couldn't believe it. Idk, maybe that still puts me in the cis range since even some cis women occasionally get 'clocked' too, only difference being his assumption happened to be right. Ehh, just one incident though. I will try to calm down and forget about it, lol.

I would of been uncomfy too. I don't handle confrontration well at all, triggers anxiety ;_;

I think the same thing "pretty and passable" but I always wonder who can tell? I get a lot of the same omg no way thing too, my new psych did it to me, that was weird. In public walking around, I sometimes hear convos about trans people. I'm just like did they clock me   lololol

Quote from: Ashey on December 27, 2015, 06:45:11 PM
Ehh, just one incident though. I will try to calm down and forget about it, lol.

That's all you can do really, otherwise it will eat you up. Just the other day at a local taco bar I had a young woman (presumably from India*) call me sir when she served me. I glared at her and said "Excuse me? What did you say?" she stammered and corrected herself calling me "madam", but I was pretty annoyed - in part because I felt there was nothing I was wearing that didn't identify me as female (plus, y'know, boobs!!) and because I had been feeling pretty good with myself right up until that very moment. I then asked "what is wrong with you?" - like I said, I was really annoyed, angry even. She was very flustered. I knew I was being a bit unfair on her but my brain had snapped.

I don't know if it was a language thing (I hear migrant people from India referring to doors as "gates" sometimes so I can only guess they get their "similar" words mixed up if they're not great at English. I also notice that if I am going to be misgendered it is almost always by migrant Asian or Indian people... is it a language thing? Is it a cultural thing (a tall person "must be masculine" so call them "sir" or "he" regardless of how they look). Anyway, sorry, rant over. It took me a day or so to calm down after that - it really bruises the ego and confidence when it happens. Like you, it really blindsided me. But yeah, just need to move on and chalk it up to "experience".

Quote...since even some cis women occasionally get 'clocked' too...

And it's often even more unsettling for them too.

*Yes, in Australia we often have people from India, Asia, Africa, wherever, working in all sorts of international cuisine outlets that you would never expect... even taco bars! It's rather awesome really.

Quote from: Ashey on December 27, 2015, 03:24:09 PM
And then he asked if I was going to have 'the surgery'.. I'm like 'Welll my genitals aren't any of your business. It's not like I'd come up to you and ask you how big your dick was..' and he said I was right and apologized, saying 'Well now I know that's offensive to trans people'.

Yes. A few of my close friends also say like that. I educate them that it is a very rude question, and they immediately apologize and understand it. Yes. Education is important, but here in my country, no such thing exists.

barbie~~

Hi Girls

I'm lucky so far as I haven't had that, That I know of being clocked. But seriously I really think a lot of it is state of mind. I would have not told that guy I was a Trans it is none of his business. and he could take a hike. I would have ask him to mind his own business and walked away. I wouldn't talk to anyone like that, what a Pervert.

Just my opinion
Hugs
Lyndsey

Honestly I don't know what I'd do if I was clocked hard like that at this stage of my transition. I'd probably cry.

Or I'd just brush it off and move on.

Hope it never happens to me and I hope it doesn't happen to you again.

At least you're OK and he wasn't violent.

Quote from: Ms Grace on December 27, 2015, 07:08:42 PM
That's all you can do really, otherwise it will eat you up. Just the other day at a local taco bar I had a young woman (presumably from India*) call me sir when she served me. I glared at her and said "Excuse me? What did you say?" she stammered and corrected herself calling me "madam", but I was pretty annoyed - in part because I felt there was nothing I was wearing that didn't identify me as female (plus, y'know, boobs!!) and because I had been feeling pretty good with myself right up until that very moment. I then asked "what is wrong with you?" - like I said, I was really annoyed, angry even. She was very flustered. I knew I was being a bit unfair on her but my brain had snapped.

I don't know if it was a language thing (I hear migrant people from India referring to doors as "gates" sometimes so I can only guess they get their "similar" words mixed up if they're not great at English. I also notice that if I am going to be misgendered it is almost always by migrant Asian or Indian people... is it a language thing? Is it a cultural thing (a tall person "must be masculine" so call them "sir" or "he" regardless of how they look). Anyway, sorry, rant over. It took me a day or so to calm down after that - it really bruises the ego and confidence when it happens. Like you, it really blindsided me. But yeah, just need to move on and chalk it up to "experience".

And it's often even more unsettling for them too.

*Yes, in Australia we often have people from India, Asia, Africa, wherever, working in all sorts of international cuisine outlets that you would never expect... even taco bars! It's rather awesome really.

They definitely should know the difference between sir and miss/ma'am. She probably slipped or was slightly unsure and testing the waters.

How you dealt with it is 100% perfect.

Oh, and we have people from all over the world too here, even some from Australia.

A note about boobs: I dunno about them being a strong gender marker. I mean they kind of are, but for some people they really don't take them into account.

It's an inquisition! Trans people are in a lot of people's views right now, and I think that some people are just looking really hard, and often questioning whether or not a lot of women they see are trans, for the slightest reason.

Recently I was visiting my mother when her and her husband said that they thought that Michelle Obama was trans, and that the president was actually gay. I at first tried to tell them how crazy that was, but after them naming masculine features, and saying obnoxious things, and continually calling her a "man" (which 1, even if she was trans, would be inappriopriate, and untrue, and 2, was indicative of a witch hunt in which to delegitimize and slander Obama, with trans people as the vehicle), so I told them that they were beginning to piss me off, and I'd prefer to change the subject. I later found out that this is nonsense they probably heard from that little fearmongering lunatic Alex Jones.

Point being, that people may be hyper aware, or looking, and getting "clocked" may have simply been completely chance, and nothing at all to actually do with any of your features or presentation, but just a hyper awareness, or paranoia.

One of the reasons I've read for why a lot of stealth trans people are not in favor of a lot of trans publicity and education is because they feared just this, a hyper awareness, or witch hunt. Whereas, without much visibility, people tend to take presentation for granted without much scrutiny, unless of course one is highly obvious.

Quote from: Elsa Delyth on December 27, 2015, 10:21:44 PM
It's an inquisition! Trans people are in a lot of people's views right now, and I think that some people are just looking really hard, and often questioning whether or not a lot of women they see are trans, for the slightest reason.

Recently I was visiting my mother when her and her husband said that they thought that Michelle Obama was trans, and that the president was actually gay. I at first tried to tell them how crazy that was, but after them naming masculine features, and saying obnoxious things, and continually calling her a "man" (which 1, even if she was trans, would be inappriopriate, and untrue, and 2, was indicative of a witch hunt in which to delegitimize and slander Obama, with trans people as the vehicle), so I told them that they were beginning to piss me off, and I'd prefer to change the subject. I later found out that this is nonsense they probably heard from that little fearmongering lunatic Alex Jones.

Point being, that people may be hyper aware, or looking, and getting "clocked" may have simply been completely chance, and nothing at all to actually do with any of your features or presentation, but just a hyper awareness, or paranoia.

One of the reasons I've read for why a lot of stealth trans people are not in favor of a lot of trans publicity and education is because they feared just this, a hyper awareness, or witch hunt. Whereas, without much visibility, people tend to take presentation for granted without much scrutiny, unless of course one is highly obvious.

Hi Elsa
I have to say that your post had me on the floor laughing OMG too funny! but in fact so true. I wish that all the trans people would just remember state of mind if you are a women than you are and if you are a man then you are no questions about it have no fear and don't be paranoid you will sail threw like the wind and know one will clock you.

Hugs Lyndsey

Quote from: Elsa Delyth on December 27, 2015, 10:21:44 PM

Recently I was visiting my mother when her and her husband said that they thought that Michelle Obama was trans, and that the president was actually gay. I at first tried to tell them how crazy that was, but after them naming masculine features, and saying obnoxious things, and continually calling her a "man" (which 1, even if she was trans, would be inappriopriate, and untrue, and 2, was indicative of a witch hunt in which to delegitimize and slander Obama, with trans people as the vehicle), so I told them that they were beginning to piss me off, and I'd prefer to change the subject. I later found out that this is nonsense they probably heard from that little fearmongering lunatic Alex Jones.

That has been around since forever and it has nothing to do with recent trans visibility or even Alex Jones. If anything it's thinly veiled racism and body shaming since African Americans in general are slightly more athletic naturally and Michelle Obama has a lean athletic build because she keeps fit. Serena Williams gets body shamed all the time too as she is a muscular athlete. I have my reasons for not liking the FLOTUS but I have no reason to believe she isn't who she says she is. Not that it would matter if she was trans anyway.

Quote
One of the reasons I've read for why a lot of stealth trans people are not in favor of a lot of trans publicity and education is because they feared just this, a hyper awareness, or witch hunt. Whereas, without much visibility, people tend to take presentation for granted without much scrutiny, unless of course one is highly obvious.

I must admit I'm not really happy about how it all blew up with Caitlyn Jenner in particular being very open. Now everyone compares every trans person to her. I've been compared a few times. Thankfully in my situation things settled down and nobody brings up me being trans anymore.

Well, I said that this is where I thought that my mom heard it, I know that he didn't come up with it himself, and I didn't realize that Michelle Obama had been famous forever.

It is untrue, and racist itself to suggest that African Americans are more athletic generally than other races, and ironically enough, those that identify as African American are the demographic least likely to believe this myth, according to polls. I say "self-identified", because "race" isn't actually a scientific classification, based on genetics, or relatedness, but it a superficial, archaic prejudice infused cultural artifact. There are some populations in African more closely genetically related to Europeans than they are to other groups in African, yet they'd all be considered "African", and if living in American "black", or "African American". There are a number of reasons why "races" are vague, unscientific classification, more reducible to culture and geography than genes, but I think that's sufficient.

I don't deny that it has something to do with racism as well, it almost certainly was. I was more just focusing on my own experiences, and people around me, and why I thought that they would find this attention grabbing, and relevant at this time, rather than forever ago.

I don't like how my family tends to be all respectful, and seemingly supportive to my face and about me, but then when talking about someone like Jenner, they are quite the opposite, refusing to acknowledge her identity, criticizing her looks, and bringing up this Michelle Obama thing... the passive aggression I deal with... lol.

I just saw something of a silver lining to the topic of Michelle, in that they were basically point blank telling me that they can't clock trans people, and are perhaps just as likely to accuse a cis-person as a trans person, though, at the same time, feel like it's my fault that they're even looking, regardless of a lack of actual discernment.