Quote from: pyhxbp on December 30, 2015, 03:34:38 AM
One of the first rules of problem solving is "If what you are doing does not work then try something else". It does not matter what you try because what you are doing right now does not work so stop doing it. Trying to "man up" or deny yourself seems to be failing you so it is time to try a different strategy. The obvious next thing to try is starting a transition.

Let us get one thing clear - transition is SLOW. Very slow. Like 3 to 5 years slow. There is plenty of time to think things through or change your mind or stop. I took three years from my name change to surgery and I spent a year living as female before I started HRT because I wanted to be sure that I could do it. I thought that HRT would be irreversible quite quickly when in reality I was on them about 8 months before things were noticeably different. For me, just starting to live as female helped relieve the dysphoria very quickly although it did introduce me to another kind of stress

If transition does not work then you can stop it and look for other strategies, but I guarantee that if you do not try it then you will never know if it is the answer to your problem. Remember Mark Twain's dictum "You are more likely to regret the things left untried than to regret the things you did"

Sorry, I made a typing mistake. The book is called "Loving What Is".  Also, Katie Byron has videos on youtube about decision making a'd how to deal with stress, anxiety and depression. She's been on Opera and some other major tv programmes.

Rita

Quote from: ElizabethK on December 29, 2015, 04:12:25 AM
That is a huge question to ask...the only answer that worked for me was brutal honesty, forget everyone else just for 5 minutes,  think only of yourself and your future...can you just forget about it and get on with your life...No? Can you make it as you are  and in a way that it impacts your life less, without causing you further internal hurt, now or in the future? Do you want to live the rest of your life socially as a woman?

Maybe some brutally honest answers for yourself...no one else...I don't expect you to answer them in this public arena because they are for you and the answers are only for you. Maybe the kind of questions you may want to ask yourself without worrying about anyone or anything...once you have answered for yourself those kinds of questions you may in fact have a better idea how you need to proceed... your therapist should be able to help you with the self acceptance thing.

Mine suggested I use personal affirmations to help me gain self acceptance which I hung all over the place in my line of site so I could not approach my computer without reading one

I hope things start to gain some clarity for you

Elizabeth K

Ahhhh  Brutal Honesty. But how honest is 'Honest'?  If you aren't asking or thinking of the hardest questions to ask yourself, answers come easy. Perhaps this why seeing the therapist helps. You are asked things you'd rather not ask yourself. When you try to voice an answer suddenly you begin thinking/processing it  differently.

I spent a good couple of years after the initial epiphany on tackling the trans-beast before I fully accepted that I am, to actually OWN it, when a bolt of lightning hit me for the umpteenth time I said "I know I am transgender". Prior to that it was a lot of self-help books, angels in support group, plenty of sleepless nights, and my Reality Therapist, aka wife to get me to that point

It seems to me that if I was to truly accept myself it would be accepting something that I absolutely DO NOT want! I do not want to be trans. Not even a little tiny bit. I want to be a normal guy. So in order to be happy, I have to give up trying for what I want and just accept what I don't want. How could that make me happy? I'm not one to just give up trying and to me, if I accept that I am trans then I am just giving up on trying to be a normal guy. Have I missed something here? Am I getting this all wrong?

J

I never thought of it like that.  In my mind it has always been "I am what I am."  So I skipped over all the hating myself and acceptance part and just devised ways to cope until I was ready and able to do more.  But that doesn't help you at all.

I may be wrong but it seems to me that you are viewing it as a disease, something malignant that must be excised.  But since it isn't that at all this viewpoint is only going to lead to increased frustration that will just continue to build steam.

So maybe you just need to accept that the condition is an inherent part of who you are, neither good nor bad and possessing no moral quality of its own.  It just is.

That doesn't mean that you have to transition or think of yourself as a woman or anything else.  It just means you can start by not hating yourself.

Then, since you know how you want to live figure out the minimum you need to do to relieve the dysphoria when it pops up.  What coping strategy will work?  That doesn't even necessarily mean cross dressing or things of that nature.  Just things that keep your mind and body focused elsewhere.  I expect this is probably an individual thing but extreme physical fitness has worked for me in the past for pretty long periods of time.

But the first thing you need to do is just stop hating yourself for something you did not do nor cause and which in and of itself is a moral neutral.


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I am viewing this as a disease or illness or something like that. I keep comparing it to cancer or an inoperable brain tumour. It seems to be the only way I can accept it. But it doesn't help in accepting that it is happening to ME! I was brought up in a sheltered home. I was even afraid to make friends at school because they might be "bad" people. I'm sure that has totally screwed with the way I am. I've never had any friends. I have never even met anyone that is gay or trans. Those people have something "wrong" with them. That's not what I believe, but that's the message I got growing up. So that is probably why I'm viewing this as an illness or disease. Sometimes I just wish I never existed. I don't see the point of life. People are so full of hate!

J

Quote from: Jayne01 on December 30, 2015, 05:29:20 PM
I am viewing this as a disease or illness or something like that. I keep comparing it to cancer or an inoperable brain tumour. It seems to be the only way I can accept it. But it doesn't help in accepting that it is happening to ME! I was brought up in a sheltered home. I was even afraid to make friends at school because they might be "bad" people. I'm sure that has totally screwed with the way I am. I've never had any friends. I have never even met anyone that is gay or trans. Those people have something "wrong" with them. That's not what I believe, but that's the message I got growing up. So that is probably why I'm viewing this as an illness or disease. Sometimes I just wish I never existed. I don't see the point of life. People are so full of hate!

J

It seems to me that you asked question ( how to accept muself?) here to kind of perpetuate the fruitless internal debate you're having, not to take feedback on board and try to.move on.

In fact. Saying you view trans as being comparable to having  cancer or a tumour, after all the helpful replies you've had from trans people here can be offensive to.many us here.

Only a gender speciiste can help you see clearer. Asking a question to just assert your internal insecurities seems to be counter-productive to me. Going in circles and reaffirming unfounded statements despite all the helpful perspectives you've had makes me think your aim is to perpetuate and rationalise your own worries, not to try and move on!

Rita

I realise that comparing trans to cancer and tumours is offensive. And I never intended to offend anyone, I was only referring to how my stupid head operates. The way I was brought up, telling me I am trans is the same as telling me the sky is not blue. I cannot process that. Hence my huge struggle at acceptance of myself. There must be some other explanation to me being the way I am.

I wasn't really offended and knew what you meant.  But really, the gateway to feeling better is simply accepting what is.  After that you can rationally plan what you want and need to do about it remembering that there is no single solution or path set in stone.


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Thanks Deborah. The last thing I want to do is offend anyone.

When you say simply accepting what is, do you mean just flick a switch in my head and suddenly I accept? Accepting would have to come before planning any kind of action, right?

Is it really as simple as flicking a switch to accept yourself, I mean REALLY accept?

J

I think Jayne was replying to my comment. Not yours. It was me who said comparing being trans to having cancer can be offensive to.many of us on here.

Rita

Quote from: Jayne01 on December 30, 2015, 10:17:46 PM

When you say simply accepting what is, do you mean just flick a switch in my head and suddenly I accept? Accepting would have to come before planning any kind of action, right?

Is it really as simple as flicking a switch to accept yourself, I mean REALLY accept?

No one has asked you to switch a button to accept yourself. From the helpful replies I can see on here, you've bern offered lots of helpful tips/ advice from people Shrarng their own experiences on how they managed to accept themselves to consulting with a gender therapist/seeking support from a trans group to suggesting some helpful literature.

If after all this you still compare trans to having cancer(even though you don't mean to offend), and state that it's not about flicking a switch button to accept yourself then I really see the point of asking the question and having this debate. sweetie!

Best of luck!

Rita

J

Yes I was replying to your post Rita. If I have offended you or anyone else I apologise. That was not my intention.

J

If only it were as easy as flicking a switch.  I expect though, that you, being an engineer, look at it through a mechanistic lens, comparing how things are to how they are supposed to be when operating properly.

So, from a purely naturalistic perspective things are not working as the blueprint intends.  That is true.  However, if you break down the system you might see it differently.

Your body is working as intended.  And your mind actually is too.  There isn't a thing wrong with either of them when examined in isolation.  The problem is a perfectly normal mind in a perfectly normal, but wrong, body.  That is the source of the dysphoria.

We even know pretty much why this happens and it happens prenatally.

So, since your body is normal and your mind is normal there is nothing to fix.  Changing the mind into what it is not is impossible and would probably be unethical since you, as you, would cease to exist.

You have two perfectly normal parts and they are mismatched.  That is what is.  So, accept your normalcy for what it is and then you can figure out what to do about the mismatch.


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Quote from: Jayne01 on December 30, 2015, 10:34:38 PM
Yes I was replying to your post Rita. If I have offended you or anyone else I apologise. That was not my intention.

Whether you meant to offend or not, it is still offensive especially after all the tips you've bren given.

My point is, what's the.point of asking for advice when in fact you prefer to dwell on your own perspective and reaffirm  your own initial perspective?

Rita

J

Sorry Rita. We are clearly not understanding each other here. I am trying to find some answers that work for me. Everybody is different and what works for one does not necessarily work for another. Maybe acceptance came easy for you. Maybe it didn't. I don't know. All I know is that is not coming easy to me.

I will leave this conversation now so that I no longer say anything wrong. Once again please accept my apology for offending you.

J

Quote from: Jayne01 on December 30, 2015, 10:50:08 PM
Sorry Rita. We are clearly not understanding each other here. I am trying to find some answers that work for me. Everybody is different and what works for one does not necessarily work for another. Maybe acceptance came easy for you. Maybe it didn't. I don't know. All I know is that is not coming easy to me.

I will leave this conversation now so that I no longer say anything wrong. Once again please accept my apology for offending you.

J

Come on J don't be like that, we genuinely want to help and I am sure it is not meant in that way.

The first thing I did to help myself gain acceptance was to stop bull->-bleeped-<-ting myself...stop talking to myself in riddles and only in the stuff I new to be true. I knew I didn't ask to be this way, I knew I was born this way, I knew that all the stuff I tried in the past never worked to "cure" me, I knew my own tricks like...as long as I didn't admit the truth then it couldn't be true. Brutal unrelenting honesty with myself until I broke it down to a point where I realised that to be happy and comfortable in my own skin meant I had to accept that I didn't want to pretend to be a guy anymore...i

Questions you might ask yourself, what don't I accept about myself, what do I accept about myself, if I consider no other person living apart from myself...what do I want?, Do I want to live in society as a woman? Do I have a choice considering how distraught and stressed I am at the moment, Do I want to transition....but maybe start with the few of the easier questions. It sounds to me you are having difficulty accepting because part of it is you really don't or haven't articulated what it is YOU want to do.

I hope that helps in some small way...you are a worthwhile person and being trans is only one part of you!

Elizabeth K

Thanks Elizabeth. But right now I feel like a worthless piece of ->-bleeped-<- and would very much like to cease existing. I am so confused that nothing in my head is making sense. Maybe I just need to take a time out and let my mind settle down because at the moment my mind is not responding to any kind of reasoning.

I feel hurt by comments that were intended to help me. I'm just not in a good place right now. There is obviously something wrong with me.

J

 

Jayne is having a hard time.

We all have hard times and finding ourselves is often the hardest step to take.

I would like everyone to pull back and be respectful.

If you cannot contribute positively well don't.

Jayne needs support not "Oh wake up and accept it' advice.

I hope you can all realise that.

Cindy

No need to be sorry about it. We all have to sometimes. It's important that we express what we are going through hand especially what we are feeling. I know it may seem like a curse now but you may find that it isn't such a curse in the future. I hope that is the case for you. For me the friendships I have made since transitioning are fare more meaningful and genuine than any I had coming into it. Anyway please hang in there. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: Jayne01 on December 29, 2015, 02:37:50 PM
Sorry about my last post. I just needed to vent. I feel a little better now. Being trans s a curse. There is nothing good about it. I just need to find some way to make the best out of a crappy condition. I need to keep reminding myself that it's like having cancer or a brain tumour. I don't want any of those things, but it's not something I have control over.

J

Quote from: Jayne01 on December 30, 2015, 04:07:19 PM
It seems to me that if I was to truly accept myself it would be accepting something that I absolutely DO NOT want! I do not want to be trans. Not even a little tiny bit. I want to be a normal guy. So in order to be happy, I have to give up trying for what I want and just accept what I don't want. How could that make me happy? I'm not one to just give up trying and to me, if I accept that I am trans then I am just giving up on trying to be a normal guy. Have I missed something here? Am I getting this all wrong?

J

Aww honey, you can't get your own life wrong  Or you can, you could be a nasty person or something but you don't come across that way. And the work thing? Eeew  Come and work with us girls who sit at computers all day - you'll lose money, status and power but we are really nice 

Actually that is something to think about - being female isn't as easy for a whole load of reasons; mostly man related. The horrid sounding ones at your work get cursed with living out their lives that way but they do get to run the world as compensation - or that's how I see it 

A lot of people so far have been talking about logic, which I've never liked!! You, personally, aren't a problem - you are a wonderful living thing of almost unknowable complexity. I think it's maybe time to turn inwards. After all, and I'm so sorry to say it, but you come across as maybe depressed.

Now in my case I'm far happier than ever but only because, when I was living through sad times, the depression was caused by not transitioning. If, like me, that's true for you then it might go away.

If you are feeling like that for a different reason then transition might not have any effect. It's a funny one in that, I've found, transition does offer the opportunity to create a new life for yourself but you have to work SO hard to do it. It also has to be the life you want... I mean, do you truly want to be female or are there changes you could make to have a happy guy life. The second one is no doubt easier in practice but possibly more difficult in principle. Transition is the closest any of us can come to a new start: new name, new looks, new personality and stuff like that.

Really, for me, you need to know enough about yourself to find out what causes the unhappiness. Is it really that you're not living as a woman; or is it that guy life hasn't worked out yet but could with some changes? I don't know, but then I don't know much lol  You haven't mentioned anything else about wanting a girl's life either - but maybe that's something more private to you?