Thank you all for being so kind.
It's not that I want a girl's life. I am quite happy living s guy's life. It's my body that my brain is not compatible with. That is part of the reason I am having such a hard time accepting myself. I don't want to change my life, but I can't have a different body with the same life. Society doesn't allow that. So I have no idea what to do.

*

Jayne:

Cindy is correct.  There is nothing 'wrong' with you.

You were ingrained by people who indoctrinated you with foul ideas.  As you posted, you are now working hard to overcome their damage they did to your self-worth.  You are uniquely good unto your self, however you are.

Yes. Take a step back from those bad messages and open your self to the good messages.  Take time to explore your self and acknowledge your self-worth as a human being.  I care for you as I am certain all others here care for you in each their own way.

Huggss from Sharon.
*

Thank you.

Quote from: Jayne01 on December 31, 2015, 02:25:56 AM
Thank you all for being so kind.
It's not that I want a girl's life. I am quite happy living s guy's life. It's my body that my brain is not compatible with. That is part of the reason I am having such a hard time accepting myself. I don't want to change my life,

OK... let me try and put this in some sort of context. What you say (up there ^^^^) is correct. I fully understand why you are saying it because I felt the same way. I do not want to be trans. I know of nobody who wanted it. I know of nobody who enjoyed it. Even now, post-surgery and living fulltime as a woman 24/7/365 I do not revel in my "trans-ness". I would have been much happier if it had never occurred to me and if I could have carried on being a blokey-bloke.

I was never given the choice.

I went through lakes of tears. I yelled "Why me?" until I was hoarse. I suppressed it and denied and tortured myself until I finally realised that the only choice I had was the second-best one. I eventually reached the point were being trans was the least bad option. It was never a good option. There was a huge dose of fear as well. This would be a complete leap into the unknown, I could lose everything, face years of ridicule and wind up in some sort of half-way position neither one thing nor the other.

When the pain, hurt and bewilderment of denial outweighed the fear of transition then I was ready to begin.

What you are going through is no different. It may vary in the details but many of us here recognise the painful path you are on. But there is something of an upside too. I still dislike being trans and I doubt that will ever change but my internal war has stopped. My family and friends saw the change in me as the slow descent into moody, self-destructive hell slowed, stopped and then reversed.

My body will always have vestiges of maleness about it because no one can live for 5 decades with testosterone sloshing through their veins and then lose all the effects of that by swapping to oestrogen. I have a huge fear of surgery so Facial surgery is not going to happen and GRS nearly did not happen. My hair will always be thin and weedy. Put next to a natal female I wonder how anyone can ever mistake me for a woman and yet they do. People who have found out have been utterly shocked and one just refused to believe me. They must all be blind .... or maybe like most trans folk, I judge myself too harshly.

In spite of all that, in spite of all those downsides, I am happier and more content that I have ever been in my life. There is no way back to maleness for me now, detransition is inconceivable to me. I am where I am and I have a chance to have a different outlook on life, but it is still my life.

Quote from: Jayne01 on December 31, 2015, 02:25:56 AM
but I can't have a different body with the same life. Society doesn't allow that. So I have no idea what to do.

What you have written up there ^^^^ is wrong. Plain and simply wrong. Unless you are in some backward society where women are used as incubators and beaten and uneducated and regarded as barely human then you get to choose your life. Outside the constraints of physical strength, women can do anything men can do, should they choose to do so.

I mostly do the same things I did before. Some of them I have chosen not to continue with and I also have chosen to do some things I never did before. I am just as smart as I ever was and I am a LOT more empathetic and patient.

Any transition depends a lot on attitude and if you are determined that transition is a dead end cul-de-sac then that is what it will turn out to be, but if you are determined for it to be a success then it will be a success.

I hope you can pick something out of that lot to help you. Good luck with whatever you decide andI hope that 2016 works out better for you.

pyhxbp, thanks for that. I am literally terrified of what is in my future. I don't know if I need to transition, and if I do will I lose everything? Or whether there is something else I can do to tame the dysphoria/depression. I can't even distinguish between dysphoria and depression anymore. I don't know if one is causing the other or what!

If the dysphoria hits me and I don't get depressed, then I think I have some chance at beating it, but then other times it is like my whole world is collapsing on me.

I do know that going more than about 2 weeks without seeing my therapist, I end up going nuts(like I am now). Unfortunately with The holiday season it has been unavoidable. I have been trying to stay strong but today I just broke down. Luckily I only need to hold out till Tuesday when I see her again. She will have her work cut out for her!

J

Quote from: Jayne01 on December 31, 2015, 05:11:57 AM
pyhxbp, thanks for that. I am literally terrified of what is in my future. I don't know if I need to transition, and if I do will I lose everything?

In my opinion, there would be something wrong with you if you where not scared of transitioning. It is a HUGE upheaval and you WILL lose some people. We all do. I lost very few and even one of those seems to be coming round but some have it much worse and lose lots. Nonetheless if you can be positive and decide to make any transition a success then you will make new friends and probably more than you will lose.

Whatever you decide it will still be your life and you will have choices. For me the turning point was when I decided that I no longer cared what strangers thought of me - since they were strangers I would likely never see again then why concern myself with their opinion of me? That realisation boosted my self-confidence and ever since that day my transition has been largely trouble free. Self belief is somehow visible to others, we radiate it outwards (ask your therapist) and it attracts others. It  somehow becomes charisma.

Hopefully your therapist will help on Tuesday. I suspect that you have a lot to talk about

I know a lot of MtF trans people who fought hard to be accepted as a guy, who did not want to change their lives and wanted to avoid transition at all costs. My girlfriend and myself are in this group as well. I spent 10 years processing all the things before I made a move to start the changes and I'm moving slow but moving forward.

I was terrified of what might happen and I am still terrified of some things to come but I move forward a little every day and the world did not collapse yet. If you try to predict the future in this state of mind you will end up conjuring up the worst possible scenarios all the time which brings you down further.

As I am an engineer as well I analyzed the situation from every possible angle, tried to rationalize everything I did or wanted to do and in the end I ended up throwing almost all the rational thoughts aside to allow my feelings to guide me because I found that I can rationalize anything, even very destructive things.

Quote from: Jayne01 on December 31, 2015, 05:11:57 AM
pyhxbp, thanks for that. I am literally terrified of what is in my future. I don't know if I need to transition, and if I do will I lose everything? Or whether there is something else I can do to tame the dysphoria/depression. I can't even distinguish between dysphoria and depression anymore. I don't know if one is causing the other or what!

Questions I sure wrestle with.  I have adapted the I am thankful I do not NEED to transition. For now my 'Management' techniques are working (mostly). Accepting that I am trans. Doing the hard work to shed (some or most) the shame and guilt. I admit HRT and an AA also has a lot to do with it. I also have a body I am basically happy to live in. Even living as a male. Though I do have bad days too. Is it the GD? Plain ole depression due to other life issues? One aggravating the other? Does it matter? Do you know anyone who doesn't have a 'Bad Day'?

QuoteIf the dysphoria hits me and I don't get depressed, then I think I have some chance at beating it, but then other times it is like my whole world is collapsing on me.

Same here falling back on old thinking that through the shear force of will AND knowing what I do now I can really really beat it this time. Other times it's "Where did I put that application for the 'Transition or Die' club. I want the pain to end.

To which I remind myself "I know what does not work" After 40 plus years even thick headed obstinate me figured it out. I also know cutting and running is not going to stop ALL that is burdening me. I still have a wife, our shared hopes and dreams, financial obligations, moral obligations, and adding to all that the risk of eventually loosing so much that a full transition can bring. As I said so far I mostly do not need to transition fully. I may need to further tweak how I manage my GD like part-time living, ahead of schedule.

My wife says there are at least 5 possible solutions to a problem. I usually am good for 2, always having a Plan B. Often times a Plan C.

Jayne certainly needs support. However, my point is if you're asking for support then at least try to explore, take advantage of the ideas/options offered to you. If they don't work for you then fine! At least you tried. I mean, what's the point of asking for support and then not try to try some ideas and keep saying "it's not like a switch button i can press to suddenly accept myself".

None of the helpful replies given above suggest pressing a switch button; on the contrary, many helpful tips have bern offered!

Have you thought about consulting with a gendrer therapist ?
Have you thought about joining an lgbt group?
Have you tried reading the support literature above?


No one said it's easy, Cindy. It certainly wasn't for me. I went through hell. In fact, I tried to commit suicide twice in my life, and glad i'm still alive.

My point is, if you are genuinely asking gor advice/ feedback on how to accept yourself then at least try to explore the answers and try to apply some of what has bddn suggested. Going in circles znd dwelling on thibgs after asking for ideas is never helpful.

I hope you can find peace within yourself one day, and will leave it at that.

Rita

I am seeing a gender therapist for a few months now. It has been several weeks since my last session due to the holiday season, but thankfully my next session is next Tuesday. There are no lgbt groups near me that I can get to. It takes me 1.5 hours just to get to see my therapist and another 1.5 hours to get home. I am doing what I can while still trying to carry on with day to day commitments.

Many of the helpful tips you mention basically suggest I start transitioning or wearing feminine things. That doesn't help me accept myself. Those things are ways to deal with the problem AFTER you have accepted yourself. I am not even close to accepting myself.

We are either in complete disagreement or there has been a huge misunderstanding. Either way, I thank you for trying to offer help and support.

J

You might think about online therapists:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,187135.0.html

hugs

Thanks Laura. I don't mind the travel time to see my therapist. She is very good and I much prefer face to face than on a computer.

Jayne

Check out my thread "Well that just happened", while I don't talk about the battles in my head as you do, I find reading your posts that you struggle with many of the same things I had done before finding peace with who I am. I hope that you can find some peace knowing there are others just like you and that life gets a lot better when you find your own truth

Remember there is no rush, dont put too much pressure on yourself. you are at the beginning of a long journey and as such must take baby steps. Self acceptance regardless if you decide to transition or not is the key. I personally found self acceptance and receive comments from everyone of how much more alive and full of laughter I am. I have not begun transition nor will I until after my last baby is born. But I have finally found peace in accepting me and my choices. I know there is a possibility I won't in the end go through with it if I cannot pass and be someone my wife is proud to call hers. But that's okay to as long as I try for the best me, because for me its about finding the best place for my happiness, the sweetspot I guess we can call  regardless if that is all the way or somewhere in between as long as I am being truthful to myself with the f8nal choice of my path.

so what I am saying is you can't ever have all the answers, explore and find out where your happiness is and then be truthful to yourself.

Hi Mavis. Thanks. I just read through your thread. Quite a story. I'm sorry you had to go through so many hardships but I'm glad you finally found your peace.

J

Quote from: Jayne01 on December 31, 2015, 12:17:49 PM
.... That doesn't help me accept myself. Those things are ways to deal with the problem AFTER you have accepted yourself. I am not even close to accepting myself.

So how to 'Accept' the Unknown?  How well, if at all, do you really know yourself? Is it something you want to accept?

I certainly did not want to accept myself, the 'self' I had become over the years. Reflecting back upon who I was I saw I was a thing I did not want to be. Any wonder I was depressed and angry, unfeeling, and numb? Just a machine that woke each day to do 'What was expected'.

That was when my transition started. A transition from a person I did not want to be to something better. Be it male or female. The me I saw was not the me I felt in my heart I really am. I had no good feel for who that was, just not for me. A ton of self help books and getting in touch with my own spirituality started knocking down the reinforced concrete castle walls I built around me to lock Joanne away but also myself.

I wish I could say it took a good 2 years of hard work to 'Accept' myself. TBH I still do not. Shedding the shame, the guilt, the internalized transphobia has helped. I can actually feel good about the amazing things I have accomplished and been involved with. There are still plenty of things I don't like. Aspects that I haven't a clue on how they can ever be changed so they don't cause the harm they still do today.

Along the journey from where I was several years ago to where I am today I came to accept that I am trans. I came to accept that I Need to do certain things to manage the GD. To control it rather then it totally controlling me. I refuse to accept that this is as good as it will get for me.

I really understand your reasonings, your fears and your thougts. Let me offer you my humble view.

When I imagine acceptance I can't think of "finding" acceptance. To me acceptance is not located in any place, in any reasoning, in any argument; acceptance is what comes after you searched all through every existing place and you found nothing more than what you had to begin with. For me that's acceptance, it is humble, its not challenging anymore, there's nothing left to challenge when it comes.

Unfortunately, it's not as easy as just switching a button, I agree completely with you.

QuoteI don't want any of those things, but it's not something I have control over.

In this words there's a glance of acceptance.

QuoteI'm not one to just give up trying and to me, if I accept that I am trans then I am just giving up on trying to be a normal guy.

Is "normal guy" a state that can be changed or archieved? Is within the definition of "normal guy" fighting gender dysphoria feelings? Can be a person considered a "normal guy" (within your concept of it) if this individual suffered gender dysphoria at any time?

QuoteThe way I was brought up, telling me I am trans is the same as telling me the sky is not blue. I cannot process that. Hence my huge struggle at acceptance of myself. There must be some other explanation to me being the way I am.

Do you know about anybody who had discovered any other explanation about the way you are? Since it looks reasonable assuming your inner conflicts with gender idendity don't come out of the blue for no reason... Is there any other feasible answer excluding gender dysphoria in science? Had your therapist told you about any other possibility?

What sounds more simple to you: the way you was brought up causes your refusal of scientific proven evidence and theories about transsexualism vs. the way you was brought up is right without needing any supporting evidence and there must be another explanation for what you're feeling right now?

QuoteIt's not that I want a girl's life. I am quite happy living s guy's life. It's my body that my brain is not compatible with.

Body and brain unmatching is what transsexualism is. It is ultimately about making those two entities match. Its not about changing your job, your sexual orientation, your social circles, meeting some sort of social standards, your hobbies or your personality. Its not about changing who you are, its about being who you're completely, at all levels. Its about changing your body (or your brain if that was feasible).

QuoteIt's the aircraft engineer in me that always considers the worst case scenario when making decisions at work. That mindset makes its way into my personal life and can sometimes hold me back.

Isn't holding back a de facto decision? Could holding back as a de facto decision lead someone to the worst case scenario or to any other bad situation? Is it even possible to exactly predict yourself (since you're part of this system, you can't draw you from it)?

QuoteThat is where I have hit a brick wall. I go through phases of telling myself that, yes I am trans, but I'm not sure I actually believe myself. I might just be paying myself lip service!

How can you be paying lip service to yourself admitting you're trans when you do not want to be trans?

QuoteI can't speak against them due fear of outing myself. That upsets me.

Is an existence driven and dominated by fear feelings worth?

Jyane you are doing Ok, you asr asking all the hard questions...they need to be asked. Sometime the answers they provide us are not what we want...I agree with you...I don't want to be trans either...but I am. I can't change that...I am who I am....you are a worthwhile person, you have a right to a happy life.

I really like Wednesday's comments regarding "Finding acceptance" they ring a real note with me.

"When I imagine acceptance I can't think of "finding" acceptance. To me acceptance is not located in any place, in any reasoning, in any argument; acceptance is what comes after you searched all through every existing place and you found nothing more than what you had to begin with. For me that's acceptance, it is humble, its not challenging anymore, there's nothing left to challenge when it comes."

I knew I had reached acceptance when the war in my head began to abate and slowly Elizabeth asserted herself and the war is not a war any longer more like an occasional skirmish.

I really hope you can find some peace and happiness...

Elizabeth K

Joanne and Wednesday, thank you for your in depth replies. You have both given me a lot to think about.

Quote from: Wednesday on December 31, 2015, 04:09:01 PM

Do you know about anybody who had discovered any other explanation about the way you are? Since it looks reasonable assuming your inner conflicts with gender idendity don't come out of the blue for no reason... Is there any other feasible answer excluding gender dysphoria in science? Had your therapist told you about any other possibility?

What sounds more simple to you: the way you was brought up causes your refusal of scientific proven evidence and theories about transsexualism vs. the way you was brought up is right without needing any supporting evidence and there must be another explanation for what you're feeling right now?

Wednesday, I understand that medical research has identified links in brain structure and biology to transsexualism. However, as far as I know, there is no scientific test currently available to confirm whether someone is transgender or not. If there is such a test I would very much like to take it to give me the proof I need. As it stands now I only have my internal feelings to tell me what I am. And over the years I have demonstrated to myself time and time again that I often misinterpret my own gut feelings and basically just get it wrong. What I'm trying to say is that I don't trust myself to know what I'm feeling because I so often get it wrong and only realise after I have made some decision based on those feelings. So for something as big and life changing as this.......well, I just don't trust myself.

J

I had doubts for a long time too for some of the same reasons.  Also, a lot of my doubts were caused by too much reading of conflicting information on the Internet.  It does take a lot of self examination to resolve those doubts.  Maybe you can think of a moment or instance where you felt absolute clarity.  What were you feeling then?  What were the circumstances?  Why were you sure at that point?  Examine it from every angle.

I had one such moment of absolute clarity so whenever uncertainty creeps in I reference back to that as my baseline.  That usually puts things in perspective.


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