This is not about ability to " pass " Just curious as far as societies obligation to view a transition or another's obligation just as a matter of courteousness to accept your proper gender, where along the transition spectrum 9ould it be proper to be referred  to as a your proper gender. Is it pre everything with only the intention of desire  to be referred to properly  or only upon dressing according to gender or somewhere before or after , such as legal name change. I'm thrilled when people ask how I want to be referred to or just say ma'am, but there is no obligation for them to do that other than  being  courteous . Do you think there's a point where you should expect to be respected for your proper gender. Like if you tell everyone your a woman , but haven't started transitioning in anyway , should you expect to be treated as such as your proper gender.( Disclaimer : this is just a search for knowledge no more no less. This is absolutely not intended  to cause conflict , but only to probe for understanding,)

I was reluctant of presenting female before having maximum effect from HRT until i figured that i was "passing" without it . I am a woman inside since i am  young and i just couldnt wait any longer so i went full time after 2.5month.  Everyone is calling me Mam' or when i get clocked (mostly due to my voice)it is just acceptance ( people thinks im woman at first)  and i get called mam' anyway.  So i would say i should be called a woman the day i decide i present like one. This is not even my choice, this is just me.  i am a woman.

Quote from: archlord on January 08, 2016, 09:49:30 PM
. . . So i would say i should be called a woman the day i decide i present like one. . . .

Yeah, that's the answer I like!

Quote from: stephaniec on January 08, 2016, 09:44:26 PM
. . . I'm thrilled when people ask how I want to be referred to or just say ma'am, but there is no obligation for them to do that other than  being  courteous. . . .

I remember very fondly a gay guy I worked with when I shifted over on the job.  He was kind of bewildered by the change, but he took me aside and asked me what I wanted about name, pronouns, etc.  I told him it's April, and "she, her, hers."  He said, "Okay, I'll do it your way.  If I ever screw it up, please correct me."  He never screwed up . . .

Society seemed to make that choice for me

Quote from: stephaniec on January 08, 2016, 09:44:26 PMAt what point in transition do you feel you should be  called a woman

When the individual wishes to be addressed as that.  It's that simple!  It truly doesn't matter how far along you are in your transition.  The following quote is why, but also where the catch is:

Quote from: stephaniec on January 08, 2016, 09:44:26 PMLike if you tell everyone your a woman , but haven't started transitioning in anyway , should you expect to be treated as such as your proper gender

Yes!  Your key words here are:  "If you tell everyone".  This isn't a trans issue, this is a respect issue with that.  If I met a guy at work named Todd and he absolutely insisted he was a glass of orange juice and preferred to be called Tang and be addressed as It then guess what I'm calling Todd from then on?  No matter how odd it may seem, Tang would deserve that respect from me to It.

The catch is, of course, is that you said that this isn't about passing, but in general society, it is totally about passing because you cannot tell everyone before you meet them how you would like to be respected.  In society, society is your judge and jury to your pronouns.  It's unfortunate but it's also reality, and I honestly respect reality more than my or your wishes or opinions.

The moment I came out.

For me it was about feminine presentation and not necessarily passing. If I presented as female I expected to be addressed as such. I corrected some people but when I was misgendered I would sometimes just give a dirty look or slink away.

I did insist my friends respect my name and pronouns. It was hard at first but later on they pretty much caught on. I had to give some tough love though and basically disappear for a while.

My voice was the major factor in being misgendered and now that is fixed so no worries at all. I am always addressed as a woman by everyone, strangers and people I know alike - except my kids while I figure out how to ease them into it.

It should come with start of social transitioning. That can happen long before first therapist session or HRT. That is, once a trans person is out, other people should have respect for who this person is.

For me personally, it is okay if people I meet first time get confused and make a mistake. I understand... men are the more aggressive sex, and they risk less aggression by misgendering a woman than by misgendering a man.

But, oh man, if those I meet every day addressed me with 'he' or even denied the 'she', that is offensive.

Quote from: stephaniec on January 08, 2016, 09:44:26 PM
Do you think there's a point where you should expect to be respected for your proper gender. Like if you tell everyone your a woman , but haven't started transitioning in anyway , should you expect to be treated as such as your proper gender.

You can call yourself a woman when you begin to understand yourself as one. Not dependent on presentation.

However, I believed that as a courtesy to those who cared about using the correct pronouns, I held off asking to be pronouned as female until my presentation was unambiguously female.

thanks for the input it's the things I wanted to know

Like the neighborhood I live in people know me as male , but it's irritating that some will use sir even though I've never told them differently.

Although I'm not female, I feel it would be a little unfair if I did not pass to ask everyone around me to rigidly refer to me as male. Which at this point in time is the case (hopefully not for long). I suppose it isn't a problem for some folks, some are very progressive and want to be nice, but others keep forgetting and making mistakes and I don't want them to have to apologize for what might be genuine difficulty. It's not that I don't want to correct them, or don't have the balls to, it's just that I feel when I look more the part, the problem should begin to correct itself. . .

I suppose for my particular situation of everyone knowing me pre transition it will just come to a point when I'll just have to correct them.

Quote from: T.K.G.W. on January 09, 2016, 02:05:33 PM
it's just that I feel when I look more the part, the problem should begin to correct itself. . .

My thoughts on myself too.

Quote from: stephaniec on January 09, 2016, 01:54:03 PM
Like the neighborhood I live in people know me as male , but it's irritating that some will use sir even though I've never told them differently.

Mention of this actually invokes memories of my struggle before full time. I would present as a man only in the office building at work, and change before I leave the building. What a hell was that in terms of creating some privacy. Also a limitation, because I couldn't wear make up or better manes, or clothing. But I wanted people, including my tram-buddies, storekeepers, neighbors, etc. to only remember me as a [trans]woman [going through the rough start].

Full time allowed me to increase passing, and express myself with as much freedom as any other woman has. People still know my background and that will not change. That won't be rooted out, but does it matter if they accept me as yet another person? I think it doesn't. I would like to remove that part of their memories but since that is not possible, I settle for the second best thing.

The bottom line is -- whoever of those people saw me as a man, probably doesn't remember that looks. Or doesn't connect the two, even better.

Age 18. 

Before that I should be called a girl.   

When I transitioned (or even if I never did) is irrelevant, because I was female between the ears since day 1.

Hi Girl's

I Feel and was called a women the first day that I came out full time. I'm legally a women all the way down to my Birth certificate. I myself did not feel complete till after I had SRS. And then I was complete with a few other finding that made me feel even more complete.

Hug's
Lyndsey