As I find myself beyond the stage of, "do I pass?" and more into the stage of, "do I look fat?" I found that womanhood comes with its share of problems.

Mind you, I'm not griping. I'm just now aware of these and frankly amazed that my problems being trans are way secondary compared to these.

Chief among these is getting hit on by married men. No, you read that right. Somehow guys who are interested in me want me as an "outside woman" and not as a serious thing or even a casual thing. I don't date married men so they are out. Yes, I am still a married woman but on paper. For all intents and purposes we lead separate lives.

Not to mention that a lot of guys are into sex, and that seems to be what they are chiefly into. I don't want to deliver that now, as I am not postop yet. Besides I want to focus more on me. But you know, it would be nice to love and be loved.

There is also being not taken seriously. I hadn't realized how pervasive male privilege is, but it is. I can't fit in with the "brogrammers" anymore. I've kind of been tossed to the side. I still do my own stuff and form my own alliances. I am also the team lead at work so they can't completely bypass me.

The good news is that women are extremely friendly and social with me. Even the supermarket checkout is more enjoyable now as they are always chatting with me. Some admire my style, some tell me I look nice etc. I've even made friends.

Such is life.

I think I want to start seeing my therapist again.

men

Oh, don't get me wrong... I absolutely love flirting with men. I just wish I could weed out the bad ones.

Quote from: iKate on January 09, 2016, 08:31:42 PM
Not to mention that a lot of guys are into sex, and that seems to be what they are chiefly into.

It's been my observation for a long, long time that this is true.

Quote from: iKate on January 09, 2016, 08:31:42 PM
There is also being not taken seriously. I hadn't realized how pervasive male privilege is, but it is. I can't fit in with the "brogrammers" anymore. I've kind of been tossed to the side. I still do my own stuff and form my own alliances. I am also the team lead at work so they can't completely bypass me.

I've noticed a definite uptick in not being taken seriously since going full time at work.  Not from everyone and thankfully not often.  Honestly I don't think the few that I have noticed it from are even doing it intentionally but it's definitely there.

I've also noticed a bit more being "talked over" in conversation, which is annoying.....

I'm in management so in a lot of cases my word goes either way but it's still an odd feeling. 

Quote from: Emjay on January 09, 2016, 11:00:32 PM
I've noticed a definite uptick in not being taken seriously since going full time at work.  Not from everyone and thankfully not often.  Honestly I don't think the few that I have noticed it from are even doing it intentionally but it's definitely there.

I've also noticed a bit more being "talked over" in conversation, which is annoying.....

I'm in management so in a lot of cases my word goes either way but it's still an odd feeling.

Oddly enough women take me far more seriously now.

Some of us aren't bad men. Give us a chance.

Quote from: LordKAT on January 10, 2016, 05:14:30 PM
Some of us aren't bad men. Give us a chance.

Dude, I hear ya. I just seem to be attracting the married and horny ones lol

Quote from: iKate on January 09, 2016, 08:31:42 PM
I don't want to deliver that now, as I am not postop yet.

Just wondering - have you given dating a shot while pre-op?  Pre-HRT, I had told myself I wouldn't date anyone until I'm post-op, but then I happened to meet someone.  Anyway, we started very platonically as friends, and then things gradually progressed.  I'm often surprised that over time, I've come to not even notice or care about my boy parts (though this was quite the process), and I know he doesn't really care about them either. 

You might surprise yourself if you meet someone decent enough that you may be able to share some intimacy pre-op, if not more.  I just think it's a pity denying yourself the prospect of being close with someone else for such a long period of time, especially if the opportunity presents itself

I haven't done my bottom surgery yet, and I started dating nearly half a year ago. My boyfriend and I went Facebook official in early December after dating a few months. He is really great, we haven't really fought much, and he is really good about being sensitive to the things that have triggered me from my previous abusive relationship. There are good guys out there, but I wouldn't have found them without letting people know I was trans early and sifting out the chaff.


     Hugs,
- Katie
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: iKate on January 09, 2016, 08:31:42 PM
There is also being not taken seriously. I hadn't realized how pervasive male privilege is, but it is. I can't fit in with the "brogrammers" anymore. I've kind of been tossed to the side. I still do my own stuff and form my own alliances. I am also the team lead at work so they can't completely bypass me.

I was stunned when I started running into this at work too. Guys in their early 20s talking over me and trying to tell me how to do something. It took every bit of restraint I had to not say "shut up, I have been doing this longer than you have been alive".

Quote from: Emjay on January 09, 2016, 11:00:32 PM
I've also noticed a bit more being "talked over" in conversation, which is annoying.....

Yes, this is SO annoying. On conference calls, I've had to go as far as PMing a male colleague to interrupt the talking for me. 

Girl you are absolutely RIGHT! I didn't know how much I benefited from male privilege until after I transitioned! And you absolutely do pass 100% to me and I am glad that your main worries have moved away from "do I pass?"

Male privilege aside, I like to laugh at the double-edged sword that exists in social practices surrounding expectations of men. Whenever I am eating with my boyfriend at a restaurant I chuckle every time the check is placed on *his* side of the table and not mine, as in waiters are expecting/wrongly assuming the man will be the one paying.

I also laughed that one time I was in a gaming convention last year and there was a (very, very long) line for the men's bathroom and the women's was close to empty! 

I would definitely say girls suffer a tad bit more from problems due to societal expectations of women compared to men, but I am enjoying the benefits I have attained, haven't you?!

When I was male-presenting, men weren't going out of their way to be nice to me because they didn't want to be seen as gay. Women weren't going out of their way to be nice to me because, well, I was a short, Asian male.

Now both women AND men are extremely nice to me haha. Women because women talk to each other, and are nice to each other most of the times; men because I have fortunately transitioned into an okay looking young lady. Literally transition has given me its fair share of problems, but EVERYONE is compartively nicer to me as a female than when I presented male.

Quote from: starting_anew on January 11, 2016, 01:02:49 AM
Just wondering - have you given dating a shot while pre-op?  Pre-HRT, I had told myself I wouldn't date anyone until I'm post-op, but then I happened to meet someone.  Anyway, we started very platonically as friends, and then things gradually progressed.  I'm often surprised that over time, I've come to not even notice or care about my boy parts (though this was quite the process), and I know he doesn't really care about them either. 

You might surprise yourself if you meet someone decent enough that you may be able to share some intimacy pre-op, if not more.  I just think it's a pity denying yourself the prospect of being close with someone else for such a long period of time, especially if the opportunity presents itself

I haven't.

I may if the opportunity presents itself and I'm really really into the guy (and he's into me) but part of me think that with those bits below I am not sure how he will see me. I don't want to be seen as anything but a woman.

Quote from: Roni on January 11, 2016, 08:27:52 AM
Girl you are absolutely RIGHT! I didn't know how much I benefited from male privilege until after I transitioned! And you absolutely do pass 100% to me and I am glad that your main worries have moved away from "do I pass?"

Male privilege aside, I like to laugh at the double-edged sword that exists in social practices surrounding expectations of men. Whenever I am eating with my boyfriend at a restaurant I chuckle every time the check is placed on *his* side of the table and not mine, as in waiters are expecting/wrongly assuming the man will be the one paying.

I also laughed that one time I was in a gaming convention last year and there was a (very, very long) line for the men's bathroom and the women's was close to empty! 

I would definitely say girls suffer a tad bit more from problems due to societal expectations of women compared to men, but I am enjoying the benefits I have attained, haven't you?!

When I was male-presenting, men weren't going out of their way to be nice to me because they didn't want to be seen as gay. Women weren't going out of their way to be nice to me because, well, I was a short, Asian male.

Now both women AND men are extremely nice to me haha. Women because women talk to each other, and are nice to each other most of the times; men because I have fortunately transitioned into an okay looking young lady. Literally transition has given me its fair share of problems, but EVERYONE is compartively nicer to me as a female than when I presented male.

Hahahaha an okay looking young lady? Girl you're killing me here... trust me when I say, you're so hot that you could melt asbestos...

I did experience the same thing that you had at the gaming convention but for me it's at tech conferences and training. I went for training for puppet (a systems management tool) a few months ago. The only woman in the class was me. Going to the restroom? Well, it was empty except for me. Oh, the receptionist was there too :\  Sad state of affairs. I will definitely be encouraging my daughters (and my son) to pursue whatever they want, career wise.

Going to home improvement stores is also a wholly different experience now. The store clerks are now all too willing to give me unsolicited advice on how to fix things. I'm like, "thanks but I know how to fix a toilet."

Quote from: iKate on January 11, 2016, 10:17:10 AM
...
Going to home improvement stores is also a wholly different experience now. The store clerks are now all too willing to give me unsolicited advice on how to fix things. I'm like, "thanks but I know how to fix a toilet."

Hehe, yeah.. It is sad and funny at the same time how expectations of people change depending on their perceived gender. I experienced this many times, the difference is quite big.

Thank you for pointing out some of the changes we experience and some of the misogyny that is often behind it.  That business of not being taken seriously was one of my sadly too often realized fears about transition.  Working in a female dominated world during my career it was easy to see sexism in action.   Even some friends were too ready to start the teasing when i first came out; "OK go get in the kitchen then"  duh!  Some think I am now less capable of driving or math!  It is harder, IMO, to be respected for our talents when a woman's appearance is sooo important.  Welcome to a woman's world huh?

And then this is one of the gifts of being transgender.  We gain knowledge through experience and perspective that can allow for real empathy and compassion for others.  That walk a mile in my high heels thing

Some guys do act boorish and in the thralls of some testosterone and cultural haze.  Heck i felt horrible horniness most of my adult life and the libido changes with transition most welcome.   Some women also trade on their looks.  There are great guys who act like gentlemen, LordKAT, and I believe trans men are helping to create more expansive and inclusive definitions of manhood.

As we evolve this behavior may diminish and we can look forward to a future when the contents of our character are more important than the contents of our pants/panties.

Nice to see your smile BTW

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The best part of transitioning is not being recognized as a guy anymore. The worst part is the same thing. You don't realize just how much men talk down to women until you're at the other end of it.

Quote from: Emileeeee on January 11, 2016, 04:29:42 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The best part of transitioning is not being recognized as a guy anymore. The worst part is the same thing. You don't realize just how much men talk down to women until you're at the other end of it.

Yep... it's affirming but eye opening too.

Quote from: Tessa James on January 11, 2016, 04:10:37 PM
Thank you for pointing out some of the changes we experience and some of the misogyny that is often behind it.  That business of not being taken seriously was one of my sadly too often realized fears about transition.  Working in a female dominated world during my career it was easy to see sexism in action.   Even some friends were too ready to start the teasing when i first came out; "OK go get in the kitchen then"  duh!  Some think I am now less capable of driving or math!  It is harder, IMO, to be respected for our talents when a woman's appearance is sooo important.  Welcome to a woman's world huh?

And then this is one of the gifts of being transgender.  We gain knowledge through experience and perspective that can allow for real empathy and compassion for others.  That walk a mile in my high heels thing

Some guys do act boorish and in the thralls of some testosterone and cultural haze.  Heck i felt horrible horniness most of my adult life and the libido changes with transition most welcome.   Some women also trade on their looks.  There are great guys who act like gentlemen, LordKAT, and I believe trans men are helping to create more expansive and inclusive definitions of manhood.

As we evolve this behavior may diminish and we can look forward to a future when the contents of our character are more important than the contents of our pants/panties.

Nice to see your smile BTW

The whole "bro" culture is especially pervasive in tech. I do know my stuff but sometimes I just get treated like dirt.

But you know what? Overcoming adversity, beating the odds and defying the haters is 100% my thing.

And thanks! Going to be smiling a lot more hopefully! Have my transition road map ahead of me, going for FFS this year and SRS toward the tail end or maybe next year.

Oh, and I wouldn't mind a good trans man in my future. I am fine with either cis or trans.