Quote from: Deborah on January 15, 2016, 02:20:18 PM
I think it depends on where you live.  If it's dangerous there then caution is smart.

This. It also depends on the mood if the outdoors is safe.

I myself had one very very bad experience. See here.

Quote from: Martine A. on September 19, 2015, 01:52:37 AM
That was more than 1km of following and saying things like [to me]:

- You like big ones? I've got ... (sound with tongue)
- Nice ass.
- Sexyyy!
- (Making kissing noise that sounds like tearing nylons)
- What is it on your phone?
- Wanna call me?
- Good legs.
- (Dog panting)
- I've got something for you
- Like lollipops?

So, that time was horrible when I think back. Back then I had a more flat response than I'd have now.

It must be that I am still loaded with testosterone, sometimes I feel like I will handle whatever comes so bring it on. Will punch somebody or kick them down if needed be. Sometimes I just prefer no confrontation. E will even that out once I finally get to it...

Generally Amsterdam, NL should be safe, so can't really compare to US cities.
Finally, am I scared anyway? A little.

I've never actually had any overtly negative experiences like the ones you've described, Martine, and I'm really sorry that even happened to you.

The only ones that do come to mind was when I was in middleschool. During this time, I was sexually harassed almost daily for what seemed like an eternity by male students in the same class I was in. They would constantly fondle my rear end and I had no compulsion to even defend myself. I guess back in the day, I hated myself so much that I even thought I had no say so for my own sexuality and that it belonged to anyone even though if on the inside I totally did not believe that.

They eventually grew bored of it and stopped. I did tell the principal but I know they didn't stop because of that. If so, I figured they would have stopped much sooner but they kept doing it even after I said something, for like weeks it seemed like. So middleschool happens to be my all-time favorite on my list of "Worst School Years Ever!" >.>

And I remember one time some grown perv got off the city bus with me when I was coming home from high school, asking me, a student presenting themselves as a 14 year old girl at the time, if I was lonely and needed a friend. I wisely lied and confidently told that creep, "Oh. No thanks. I have pleeeeenty of friends." And then I walked away calmly but briskly, turning back every once and a while to see if I was being followed and he was for a moment but lost interest rather quickly and went the other way.

Yeah, I had a few little off-putting experiences here and there, but nothing like that at night. I think one person wanted to lure me into a trap when he asked if I had a phone he could use. I immediately lied and said "Nope. Sorry."

And to be honest, because I associate the fear of going outside alone with being "girly," I get angry and even insulted by my dad's excessive worrying for me to be outside alone at night because I know for a fact that he still sees me (and probably always will even after I start T) as his daughter instead of his son. It pisses me off how he doesn't do this with his cis sons at all. Its almost like he is telling me silently that they are more man than I am or will ever be. Though the other night, when we got into one of our common 'scuffles,' he called me a "whatever you are," instead of a "girl" and I actually would rather be called that than a "girl." So I must be getting somewhere with him now.

Quote from: King Phoenix on January 17, 2016, 11:06:34 AM
I've never actually had any overtly negative experiences like the ones you've described, Martine, and I'm really sorry that even happened to you.

The only ones that do come to mind was when I was in middleschool. During this time, I was sexually harassed almost daily for what seemed like an eternity by male students in the same class I was in. They would constantly fondle my rear end and I had no compulsion to even defend myself. I guess back in the day, I hated myself so much that I even thought I had no say so for my own sexuality and that it belonged to anyone even though if on the inside I totally did not believe that.

They eventually grew bored of it and stopped. I did tell the principal but I know they didn't stop because of that. If so, I figured they would have stopped much sooner but they kept doing it even after I said something, for like weeks it seemed like. So middleschool happens to be my all-time favorite on my list of "Worst School Years Ever!" >.>

And I remember one time some grown perv got off the city bus with me when I was coming home from high school, asking me, a student presenting themselves as a 14 year old girl at the time, if I was lonely and needed a friend. I wisely lied and confidently told that creep, "Oh. No thanks. I have pleeeeenty of friends." And then I walked away calmly but briskly, turning back every once and a while to see if I was being followed and he was for a moment but lost interest rather quickly and went the other way.

Yeah, I had a few little off-putting experiences here and there, but nothing like that at night. I think one person wanted to lure me into a trap when he asked if I had a phone he could use. I immediately lied and said "Nope. Sorry."

And to be honest, because I associate the fear of going outside alone with being "girly," I get angry and even insulted by my dad's excessive worrying for me to be outside alone at night because I know for a fact that he still sees me (and probably always will even after I start T) as his daughter instead of his son. It pisses me off how he doesn't do this with his cis sons at all. Its almost like he is telling me silently that they are more man than I am or will ever be. Though the other night, when we got into one of our common 'scuffles,' he called me a "whatever you are," instead of a "girl" and I actually would rather be called that than a "girl." So I must be getting somewhere with him now.

i think he is just used to being protective of you like that because you were born female. i don't think he thinks of you as "less than" compared to your siblings. as much as we want parents, etc. to be on board with everything right away, it takes time and they are used to a certain way or perceiving you as a certain way. it takes time, but they do come around. my dad still slips up with my birth name sometimes (but not often) and i've been out since i was 18 and i'm now 24, on T for over a year, and almost a year post op. it happens, don't be so hard on them when they slip up, or take things to heart too much when it might not be as you think it does, you know? i think as you grow more into who you want to be and your transition, you start to understand more. as you become more comfortable with who you are, those kind of things stop bugging you. i mean honestly, before transitioning, i wanted nothing "feminine" associated with me. i might have passed 100%, but i didn't want anything that would "out" me. now? hell, i care MORE about my appearance (which is usually associated with femininity), and i use bath and body works hand sanitizer that smells like cookies. do you think i care now? no. would i before? nope.

as for going out alone, i live in a city and coming home form work sometimes it can be late and i have to transfer buses downtown and i have to walk through a secluded bike path to get home. is it scary? yeah. even though i present as male 100%, i still find it nerve wrecking. i don't associate being scared with being "female" because i was never taught to be scared of those kinds of things because i was born female. it just i feel common sense to feel unsafe sometimes and it doesn't make you less manly, etc.

Quote from: King Phoenix on January 16, 2016, 03:00:37 PM
^Definitely a great point here also, by T.K.G.W. about having The Look.

I was told I had that a couple of times throughout my life by relatives. Like the kind that is very reminiscent of gangsta rappers like Ice Cube or something. Like a look that says "stay back or die," like what you said. The thing is that I don't always sport that look when I know I should or really want to but for some reason I can't at the time. I guess when I get time I should practice this, but I think one reason I am not as willful with it at times is because I've practiced quite a bit to be the opposite of that; friendly. I see now how this can work against me in times of danger. Haha....yeah...

From how you describe The Look, T.K.G.W., I'd stay miles away from you. Haha. I mean, I think some people have to seriously be mentally challenged if they keep doing things to intentionally set people off who's got a mean set of eyes the way you described.

I'll do the friendly thing too, but I won't do it in the street unless there's a reason like someone fairly harmless comes up for a chat or something. Otherwise it's the poker face when I'm outside along with the "I'm watching you" eyes (not wide-eyed, but keep them normal or narrowed). If you keep your head too far down looking at the floor that's not it, nor if you point your face upward too much. Try to imagine how an eagle sees the world behind it's "frown" and keep your face tilted a little down to create that "alert" and watching stance, but not your entire head pointed down. It might depend on your brow shape but if you've got naturally 'frowny' eyebrows like me, all I gotta do is tilt the head down a little and my face looks a lot more serious, without actually frowning at all.

It could also just kind of exude from someone's mood when they're outside... I don't know. I've had some not so fun experiences with people and over time I've become less afraid and quite a bit more angry and far more ready to defend myself if someone acts up, so perhaps some of the look you exude does come from what you're really feeling and thinking.

Starting tonight, right before bed, I think I'm gonna practice "The Look." I think that is a very awesome psychological defense mechanism to use outside against potential enemies. Eye contact says alot of things without us having to utter a single word. One cool thing about it is it can assert dominance non-verbally. Yet one uncool thing is that it can totally do the opposite and assert submission by the lack of it. I have social anxiety.

It can get to a point where my eyes "run away" from everyone. Um. That doesn't look very "manly" in someone wanting to present themselves as male. So yes, its a huge problem of mine. But on some days I think I could even stare my dad's pitbull down (she's friendly and all but she loooooves to stare at everyone!). I can even get to a point where I make the guys down at the barbershop I went to last time to eventually look the other way from my own intensified gaze. Though I will admit that there was one man I couldn't beat that day in a staring contest if my life depended on it. O.o

I surely attest to our feelings and inner thoughts reflecting themselves in not only our facial expressions but our actions too. I learned that from a very great book I would recommend to anyone titled The Secret by Rhonda Byrne.

One thing about eye contact with strangers.  Don't stare at them.  That's a direct challenge and can lead to confrontation.  Just look at them briefly, acknowledge their presence with neither dominance nor submission, and then move on.  99% of the time they will do exactly the same.


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Quote from: Deborah on January 17, 2016, 06:35:20 PM
One thing about eye contact with strangers.  Don't stare at them.  That's a direct challenge and can lead to confrontation.  Just look at them briefly, acknowledge their presence with neither dominance nor submission, and then move on.  99% of the time they will do exactly the same.


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Good point here also. I started to do this. Its good to at least acknowledge a person's presence. That's kinda what happened at the barbershop with one guy, where I had to look away from him eventually before he looked away from me because any longer and I wouldn't have blamed him if he socked me right in my face for staring.

The only time I stare at someone is when I want to interact with them. Being a guy, I usually just nod at other guys and say "hi there" or "hi" or something like that to girls whilst making appropriate eye contact to accompany my greeting to them.

This is fascinating to me because these are the same things I worry about except the exact opposite! 

No worries, being raised male, from what I can tell, men still worry about these things within reason. Definitely don't put yourself in a bad situation, but work on your "don't screw with me" face and walk.

Or... You could just do what I do.

I pull out my cell phone and act like I'm talking to someone on the phone. Sounds crazy but I figure someone is less likely going to attack someone that can easily identify them over the phone.

Yes.  You don't want to come off as either a threat or a victim.  More or less you want to acknowledge them as an equal and have them see you as an equal.  If they're looking for victims they'll keep looking.  But at the same time you don't make them think you're a threat.  Some people react with hostility to that, especially drunks.


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I think one person on here mentioned it to be a good idea to stay away from pubs and bars where major alcohol consumption is only expected.

Yeah, drunks can be trouble. Those are some of the type of people I'm not too worried about in my area because there aren't a whole lot of those type of places. But we do have a very shady corner store that is very reminiscent of the gritty corner stores in Detroit, Michigan in the 'hood. Just awful....but not nearly as terrifying as Detroit's. O.o

Ah yeah, the nuances of how to use eye contact. Outright staring is never called for unless you are squaring off. However, 'sweeping the area' with 'the look' is usually just fine.

Funny thing - as a kid I never knew how to use eye contact. I would nearly always avoid it and got yelled at by people for being 'impolite' for not looking at them while talking... parents/teachers etc. So I trained myself over time to stare at the spot between a person's eyes, so I didn't feel so uncomfortable looking directly at them. I could stare someone down for my country, now. Not uncomfortable doing it at all... in fact I will stare directly into a person's soul while I'm talking to them, lol. I know it makes some people uncomfortable even in friendly conversation... so use the gaze carefully. At present though, I'll just stare right at a man or woman I'm talking to without taking my gaze off them. If I could be bothered trying to be more "friendly", I'd break that up a bit by looking away or down every now and then, as people do. I'm kinda loath to after the BS I got in my childhood about not looking at people, though. They wanted it, now they can have it. It goes a long way to expressing inner assertiveness.

I don't think it has much to do with gender personally. Male or female, if it's dark, you're not by a main road and you see a group of people, you're probably gonna get that little bit of adrenaline.

It more depends on your area and other people's negative experiences - example:

I have a guy friend who was assaulted recently for being gay, no broken bones but was bruised pretty bad.
Or, my partner who faces verbal abuse by people drunk and likely on drugs when leaving work
Or, a few years back when I was in an argument and someone reached into their jacket to pull out a knife


Either way, we're influenced more by negative experiences (which are incredibly rare, those are the only 3 examples I could think of) than by social conditioning to do with gender. It's not something to be ashamed of.

I feel marginally safer not having visibly large breasts any more since I've started binding, but that's about it. I'm still short and light-weight... I used to walk home from the club area in the city to the area i lived in, which was on the edge of one of the rougher areas, and the walk passed through the city center and I never /noticed/ any dangerous people, but i would have been drunk and so i was probably just lucky.

That said I don't have a lot of reasons to go out late at night alone now. If i was in a pub situation I would probably be with someone. The shift from feeling unsafe as a perceived female to feeling unsafe as a trans person doesn't seem like much haha. I also (personally, as opposed to news stores etc) know more guys who've been mugged than girls, probably because girls travel in groups and are more used to being defensive. I had a friend who used to snap car aerials off to use as a weapon if she felt like she was being followed because she used to get grabbed so often... not the most socially friendly way to defend yourself :P

As an aside I think I'm likely to get 'gender profiled' more wandering about at night by police.

In the past I was stopped now and then and asked "where are you going?" and even offered a ride home by what appeared to be concerned policemen. One occasion I was sitting outside of my house on the steps at 5 a.m. and some cops came into my garden and asked me what was up.

As a male I think I'm more likely to get stopped by police at night with the assumption I'm "up to no good", and not so much "at risk". I doubt they'd have offered me a ride home or bothered checking why I was sitting outside at 5 a.m. if I looked like a dude.

Good thing I live in the middle of nowhere now and I see cops as often as I see pixies.

I kinda get that too sometimes.

I think that's something that needs a bit more discussion in the trans community. That is, what should we do in the event of any contact with law enforcement?

I'm not saying you got into trouble. I'm just saying there should be more discussion about how we need to interact with police and things like that, given our "unique" situation and status.  Like how to explain oneself for being read as male in person but having an ID that says I am female. 

Police are also one reason I get kinda scared to go out at night by myself. The police in my 'hood are all generally very polite and considerate. Every time I come in contact with them, usually for having to be transported to the hospital under 'protective custody' (Baker Act) for suicide watch, they call me Phoenix because they want me to feel comfortable, although they keep calling me a 'she' for the most part. So its a very awkward situation.

Its weird to have to explain this so I have a constant fear of them pulling me to the side on the street also.

Quote from: King Phoenix on January 18, 2016, 10:49:26 AM
I think that's something that needs a bit more discussion in the trans community. That is, what should we do in the event of any contact with law enforcement?

I'm not saying you got into trouble. I'm just saying there should be more discussion about how we need to interact with police and things like that, given our "unique" situation and status.  Like how to explain oneself for being read as male in person but having an ID that says I am female. 

Police are also one reason I get kinda scared to go out at night by myself. The police in my 'hood are all generally very polite and considerate. Every time I come in contact with them, usually for having to be transported to the hospital under 'protective custody' (Baker Act) for suicide watch, they call me Phoenix because they want me to feel comfortable, although they keep calling me a 'she' for the most part. So its a very awkward situation.

Its weird to have to explain this so I have a constant fear of them pulling me to the side on the street also.

Best practice - be polite, answer simple yes/no questions, and if you feel like you're being interviewed as a suspect - stop talking and ask for a lawyer. Be up front about any confusion with your ID - "I'm transgender and have not met the standard to have my identification updated yet. I would prefer that you use my chosen name and male pronouns if it isn't too much trouble." I'd play it by ear though. If it's just a random interaction (ie. you're not a victim or perpetrator of a crime and are not being interviewed as one), I personally wouldn't correct anyone on name/pronouns. Not worth it. If it's going to be a lengthier conversation, go for it.

It'll vary by department though. Mine and the others in my area are very progressive, but many aren't.

Great advice here, Max.

One awesome point you brought up here is to decline from corrections of pronouns if the interaction/conversation with the officer(s) are short-lived. Yet I feel as though this concept could be applied to any short-lived interaction with someone. When I first came out, I was so desperate to get everyone I met to know without a shout of a doubt that I am a man in a woman's body. But as I grow into my pre-transitioned self, day by day, I'm not as desperate to do so anymore given the sort of situation it calls for.

But I will admit that a couple days ago, I felt so low by a male cabbie I never met before because he just kept calling me "ma'am" even after I calmly told him that I prefer to be called Phoenix before he transported me to dialysis that day. Its like he didn't hear or want to hear what I requested for. I didn't feel like running the whole trans 101 that day and paid the heavy, disheartening dysphoric price for it too.

I've never had a bad experience with the police myself. My boyfriend used to work for them so I got nothing especially against them and I can hear things from their side too.

I'm always polite with the police and I've never had any problems with them. But I think that was due to being co-operative, polite AND what appears to be female being a more successful combination with them. My ex had problems with them a few times; on one occasion he'd come to pick me up from a train station at night and apparently a real jerk of a officer started accusing him of having weaved all over the road on his way there (doubt it), then implied he was cruising the station like a creeper. My ex told this dude he was there to pick me up and luckily I was just getting off the train as he said it and started walking over, so I saw the officer going away. My ex was seriously livid, since the guy had only stopped ragging on him because I'd materialized from the train and waved. Who knows how long it could have gone on for him or how much trouble the officer could have made because he felt like it. He went away so as to save me being involved, I suppose.

On other occasions I've seen the police turn up to a domestic and not really believe a female was trying to beat a guy over the head with a bottle. When, in fact... she was, and he was the only one with cuts and blood on him. You can imagine the brevity if it'd been a reverse situation.

So I think there's a case of female privilege with the police for sure, which ofc I'm gonna lose. I'll have to remember it may not necessarily be so smooth as in the past them once I transition.

Biggest advice I have is to not be a hothead. My ex was in a mcdonalds while I went to the bathroom during a festival (long lines). Police came in and told everyone without food to get out. He refused and I came out of the bathroom and found him in the back of the cruiser. They let him go a few minutes later. He was stubborn and it all could have been avoided if he had listened to a simple request from the police.

Quote from: King Phoenix on January 15, 2016, 01:57:42 PM
Are there any FtMs on here who are very afraid to go outside alone at night?

Yes. I don't do much alone, especially at night. Don't feel guilty or ashamed. I won't even go hiking or running by myself. I am a short guy. A friend tells me I'm a guy I have nothing to worry about, but I won't go alone. I do feel the need to have someone with me, preferably a bigger male, cis or not doesn't matter. For me it has nothing to do with the neighborhood, more to do with the kind of people there are in this world. Who kill, rape, beat, torture, harass innocent people who happen to be at the wrong place wrong time. I've been wanting to take some kind of self defense course so if I'm ever in that type of situation again, that I will have some confidence to protect myself. Although I wasn't afraid, I did feel weak. At least now I know I'm not the only one!