I feel so bummed about yesterday. I went to the gay bar with my new packer and got clocked as female the whole time. I had so many lesbians coming up to me and checking on me in my drunken state. A few of them I told I was trans and they weren't mean about it but they left me alone after that. It's hard to approach a guy when I think all they are seeing is a lesbian. It is very depressing because I just want to meet a nice guy that likes me for me, T or no T. Now I have pretty much came to the conclusion that I won't find a guy like that but even if I do I will still be called female. It's like I don't want my decision for T to be based on changing for a guy but at the same time even if a guy liked me I would still be called female by everyone else. I do not like being called female but I have grown so accustomed to it that I don't even have a physically reaction to it besides an internal twitch in my head. Now I don't even want to go to the dance parties the bar has on saturdays. When I first started going there I was gendered correctly but I don't know what changed.

Passing as the correct gender after failing for so long isn't easy.  I found that sometimes I passed and others I didn't. I still don't understand.  Best guess is that something changed in your attitude...

Jen

Sorry to hear that man. Can I ask, what are your reservations about T? I agree that wanting to have an easier time finding a partner isn't a good reason to go on T. Maybe talking about your perceived pros/cons would help, if you haven't already mentally made that decision.

It does sound like you're in a tough spot. How well would you say you pass outside of the bar, in everyday life? Maybe it is just the higher percentage of lesbians in the bar making it difficult to perceive you as male.

Maybe the guy you are hoping to find is not going to be found in a bar, or that particular bar, anyway   I know you are discouraged, but there are numerous other social situations where you may run into the right mate, date, fling, or lifelong love...it is a process.  Try your best to get out into the world and enjoy new experiences with new and different people!  Be who you are, where you are.

I know where you're coming from, and I'm sorry you had this experience. Early in my transition I felt the exact same way: gay men completely ignored me and everyone presumed I was a lesbian; it was heartbreaking. Bear in mind that LGBT venues are notorious for people clocking us if we don't quite pass. People who frequent LGBT venues tend to be more exposed to butch lesbians than your average man-on-the-street, so if you're going to be mistaken for a lesbian anywhere it's more likely to happen in a gay venue than anywhere else. You say you passed just fine in this place before: was there something about you being drunk that affected your ability to pass in some way? Is it possible that too much alcohol altered your behaviour; your mannerisms; the tone of your voice; your stance? Were you wearing something that didn't fit quite right?

It's a sad truth that for many of us, T is the only way we can pass 100% and no longer be seen as female. If your main aim is to stop people from seeing you as female, then T is a very effective way to achieve that (as is top surgery). But you must make the right decision for yourself based on your needs & circumstances.

I agree with everything everyone else said in here, but you also have to realize that compared to a stranger that just quickly glances at you in the street, the people in bars are going to be narrowing in on what you look and act like all over. Cause they're looking to see if someone is attractive to them or not. Most gay guys on the scene are also very critical of how a man looks (cis or otherwise) and they'll spot discrepancies right away. It's not fair, but it's biology, and I admit even though I'm a pre-transition gay guy I do it too. I can usually tell when someone's not passing, especially if they're not taking T.

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Quote from: FTMax on January 17, 2016, 08:04:06 PM
Maybe it is just the higher percentage of lesbians in the bar making it difficult to perceive you as male.

This. I pass quite well where I live, but when I went to a place during Christmas where there are a higher percentage of tomboys (or lesbians??), and I got misgendered basically the whole time  which kinda ruined my holiday mood...

Back in my days of frequenting LGBT bars, all the experience in general did was to put me off dating at all for some time. Then again that town sucked and the bars were meat markets.

I had more success and fun meeting online or on trips with friends or like-minded people.

I don't go to gay bars looking to pick up men right now for that very reason.  My church is an LGBT church (mostly LGB), and the people above are correct that you are more likely to get perceived as a butch lesbian by LGB people than by average Joe straight person on the street who doesn't see a lot of gender variance.  Even though they know I am trans at my VERY small church, sometimes they still forget and call me "she"!  Especially the lesbians.  The gay men are actually better about it.  It does make me feel down, too, and makes me very unsure about how often I pass in public.  I feel like I NEVER pass, which I am fairly sure I do sometimes, especially now that my voice is a little lower.  After all, I am tall for someone AFAB, my boobs are small enough that a packer makes them flat as a board, and my shoulders have broadened to the point where they are considerably wider than my narrowing hips since I started working out and taking T.  But my LGB friends manage to knock my confidence a lot, especially when paired with all the other people who knew me "before" and so have a hard time remembering to gender me correctly even though they get my name right.  (I hate being addressed as part of a group of "ladies".). It is definitely a bummer getting clocked, but it is definitely a side effect of being pre-T/early-T in a community that is so used to gender variances.  Plus since it is a bar, you can't even pass as a younger male since a teen wouldn't be allowed in.  I, personally, don't have enough confidence yet to approach men (or even women), so I give you props for that.  Hope you feel better--don't let it get you down!  It happens to us all at this stage!

That's rough dude,

I'm sorry that happened.

Is there a gay bar in your area that has a predominantly male clientele? You may still get clocked but guys will probably be more understanding of the fact that you are a gay transman, and less likely to mistake you for a lesbian.

Don't give up hope, try to reach out and make some friends in the gay male community. Going to a gay bar with a group of your own gay male friends will greatly increase your chance of being read as gay. They can also introduce you to other people and use male pronouns which will help immensely.

Another thing that can help is how you dress. There is a dress code of sorts that goes on a some gay bars. A lot of different companies out there have gay t-shirts. Some of them are pretty vulgar, but chances are if you show up to a gay bar wearing a shirt that says "I (rainbow heart) MEN" people will get the point. (and lesbians will avoid you)

I met my boyfriend of over a year when I was pre-T, and I dated several gay men before that. I've found that very few gay men care about me being trans, I'm just another masculine gay bottom to them. You just have to be confident and friendly. But what one of the people above me said is definitely true, gay bars are more of a "meat market" than het bars. Make sure that your expectations are aligned with the other guy before you get too emotionally invested. If all he's looking for is casual sex and you want a LTR, you might want to talk to somebody else.