Susan's Place Logo

News:

Visit our Discord server  and Wiki

Main Menu

Homophobia, heteronormative gendering + being perceived to be younger than I am

Started by Peep, January 21, 2016, 09:53:47 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Peep

So I'm being percieved as male more often these days but I've never noticed it when I'm in public with my boyfriend. I'm sort of worried that because of the size difference between us i get clocked as 'female', or because anyone on the fence would decided that being with a male would mean i'm female. However I'm equally worried about being read as male + gay because although I'm bi i've never been in a public same sex relationship, and after almost five years in what was perceived to be a straight one i'm not used to holding back from things like holding hands or giving him a kiss goodbye in public and I'm worried that i should be more careful than i am. I'm also concerned about how young i look - i'm 24 but presenting as male i look 16. He's 26 and looks 26. I'd feel pretty weird seeing a 16 y/o and a 26 y/o on a date regardless of gender.

I was just wondering if anyone has experience with this and if I'm overthinking things. I'm in the UK, if that info helps, so homosexuality is casually acceptable but that doesn't mean i've seen many guys out on dates either.
  •  

Elis

I've had a similar experience with my ex gf. I hadn't taken T yet so looked female so people often mistook us for a gay couple. Plus she was 5'11 and I'm only 5'5 so I'm sure that caused a lot of stares too. I always felt self conscious with her and it took me a long time to be comfortable holding her hand in public and kissing her in public. I always felt like i had to be wary of where we were and if it was safe to do so in public.
What helped was the realisation that people are too consumed by their own lifes to notice who or what's around them. A few people will stare but won't have the guts to actually say anything. You're not over thinking things; all gay people have gone and is going through the same thing as you.
They/them pronouns preferred.



  •  

Kylo

I'm in the UK, both me and my cis male partner are the same height, nonetheless I am wary and there's an unspoken rule that extended way back before I admitted my trans thing to him that showing affection in public is something we kinda try not to do, even as a 'regular' couple. I intend to be even more careful in future, since I have several gay friends who have had unpleasant comments and experiences in the UK while holding hands, kissing or "standing too close" in public spots.

Personally I've never had this happen to me for that reason, but I have had disparaging comments from people just due to the fact my partner looks younger than me. I guess it's to be expected with a 30 year old who still looks like he should be doing his A-levels. :/

Homosexuality is casually acceptable but there's still a ton of ignorance and prejudice. I couldn't even walk about as as what appeared to be a hetero couple without people having to make their dumb comments here and there. Luckily no violence or anything like that. Honestly I'm not entirely comfortable doing much more than holding hands in public anyway, although Jeez, we should be able to do that in the 21st century without harassment. I would just be careful of your surroundings and who is in them if you are going to show affection to someone.

"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
  •  

green27

Hey,

I'm in the US so my experience might be a little different.

I identify as gay and I have found that when I'm with my boyfriend I am much more likely to be read as male. We aren't really shy about our gayness (it helps that he's like 6'2" and we are both ex-military gym buddies, so if anything got rough we could probably handle it. I know not everyone has that privilege.) We hold hands in public, but we don't really kiss in front of people we don't know. But I don't know many people who would do that, gay or straight. We've had some off color comments, but you just learn to ignore it.

As for height, I don't think that really influences your passing as much as you think. Lots of cis-guys are short. I'm 10" shorter than my boyfriend and I still get read male consistently. If you're really worried about it you could start wearing boots with a thicker sole to give you a little extra height.

Also, in the gay community it is much more accepted to have a partner that is significantly older or younger than you. I know a lot of couples who have 20+ year age gaps. Its way more common with gay couples than het couples. And a lot of twinks try their best to look like they are still in their teens/early 20s, so your younger look wouldn't give you away necessarily.

I think gay transmen have a little easier of a time passing in public, but you really have to decide if you can be comfortable and confident as a gay man. It might help you to go out on dates with another gay couple or two. Theres safety in numbers.

  •  

Peep

Thanks for your replies guys

Yeah I don't mean like I'd like to be able to stick my tongue down his throat in public, but I'd rather not feel nervous if i hug or kiss him goodbye at the train station... I don't think anyone really noticed but I still feel self conscious

It's not 100% a problem now, because I'm pre-everything, so for the most part I'm probably just read as 'tomboy' or 'butch' but it's one of the concerns i have about advancing my transition. i'd hate for him to get hurt or harassed or even slightly embarrassed because of me - it's a new experience for him too :/
  •  

Kylo

I think it's a sensible thing to be wary of.

Not just him who may be the target but also yourself once transitioned. Stay safe.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
  •  

cindianna_jones

I think it is healthy to be aware of any potential problems you may have while out and behave according to the venue you are visiting. There is no point inviting intolerant violence. On the other hand, I also believe it is healthy for some people to see things outside their threshold of what "normal" is. So... be careful and enjoy your life.

Chin up,
Cindi
  •  

FTMDiaries

Just because homosexuality is casually acceptable in the UK, doesn't mean that the general public actually likes it. It just means that they know they have to (begrudgingly) put up with it.

As you know, the British tend to be a largely tolerant lot who mind their own business, but if they see something they don't like they can and do push back against it. Think about this: there have always been gay couples in the UK, and certainly throughout your entire lifetime. How many have you seen on the High Street holding hands in public? Hugging each other goodbye at the train station? Kissing (even a quick peck on the cheek)?

Exactly.

We've learned the hard way that other people might accept the fact that homosexuality exists, but they don't want to witness any evidence of it; they get very NIMBYish about it. The Daily Mail mantra that always makes me laugh is that they don't want it 'shoved down their throats' (how very Freudian!).

Fortunately, things are changing. I'm delighted to say I've seen quite a few lesbian couples holding hands in public over the past few years - and let's face it, the change has to start there because we don't have the same societal aversion towards two women holding hands, which makes cis lesbians less likely to be the victims of the sort of casual aggression that occurs in these specific situations (just look at Elis's description above of being read as a lesbian couple). People do occasionally harass lesbians, but they're much more likely to harass gay men.

I've also seen a grand total of two(!) gay male couples holding hands, in two different cities. But you should've seen the looks on their faces: wary, guarded, on edge; just waiting for some idiot to have a go at them. But the more gay couples do this, the more accustomed the public will become to it. It's getting better, but it's going to take a long, long time before two men holding hands in public is NBD.

Until then, be aware of your surroundings... and be careful.





  •  

FtMitch

It's funny how the American South has such a bad reputation for homophobia yet in the major cities of Texas (the state where I live), it sounds about the same as the UK.  Many people aren't trilled to have gays around, but it's rare someone says something.  My friend and I once had a waitress think we were on a date and set a candle between us lol.  I guess bad experiences can happen anywhere, and the same for good experiences.  I see gay couples holding hands on the streets occasionally in Texas.  There is certainly nothing wrong with being aware for your own safety, though!
(Started T November 4, 2015)
  •  

Deborah

In the American south the prevailing culture is that people are generally polite to each other face to face no matter what they think.  This attitude does not extend to passing laws or proactively doing anything for our benefit.


Sapere Aude
Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being....  - Dan Barker

U.S. Army Retired
  •  

Peep

Quote from: FTMDiaries on January 22, 2016, 04:26:27 AM
We've learned the hard way that other people might accept the fact that homosexuality exists, but they don't want to witness any evidence of it; they get very NIMBYish about it. The Daily Mail mantra that always makes me laugh is that they don't want it 'shoved down their throats' (how very Freudian!).

Haha yeah I hear that expression a lot, it's weird how often that particular phrase is used. Almost suspicious actually as if it's not really an opinion that has been thought about at all... simply repeated... :P

Yeah I've only once seen a male gay couple holding hands in public during the day. It's strange because there definitely are gay couples out there. Where are they all??? lol
  •  

Kylo

Only the idealized couple can apparently go about showing public affection without getting negative attention.

Then again I've been on a train where a couple just like that were doing it and everyone else looked annoyed. Probably just jealous.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
  •  

FTMax

Quote from: Deborah on January 22, 2016, 08:41:20 AM
In the American south the prevailing culture is that people are generally polite to each other face to face no matter what they think.  This attitude does not extend to passing laws or proactively doing anything for our benefit.

This. The part of Virginia I live in is very progressive, but the rest of the state (with a few pockets of exception), I've found this to be the case.
T: 12/5/2014 | Top: 4/21/2015 | Hysto: 2/6/2016 | Meta: 3/21/2017

I don't come here anymore, so if you need to get in touch send an email: maxdoeswork AT protonmail.com
  •  

FtMitch

Quote from: Deborah on January 22, 2016, 08:41:20 AM
In the American south the prevailing culture is that people are generally polite to each other face to face no matter what they think.  This attitude does not extend to passing laws or proactively doing anything for our benefit.


Sapere Aude

Perhaps I'm a bit biased as someone who absolutely adores Texas and is a diehard Texan, but despite our legislative difficulties I find most people here to be very understanding and accepting.  Yes, there are some very vocal jerks, but I think that those vocal jerks give a larger majority a bad name.  I realize that different people have different experiences, but I do wish that people would also acknowledge that there are plenty of people who don't fit the heteronormative mold in places like where I live that have GOOD experiences and not color it all with a broad stroke of being bad.  Or at least acknowledge that (like is mentioned in this thread) these issues happen in places stereotyped to be better about these things as well.
(Started T November 4, 2015)
  •