So I went to my private gender identity clinic yesterday to see the doctor there for my follow up consultation  (I'm 3 months on T). I asked if he could switch me to Sustanon as I'd find it more convenient than the gel I'm currently on which I have to take everyday. He said that he no longer prescribes that, just the gel and Nebido because of the health consequences of long term Sustanon use from trans men. These health consequences not just being the general health effects of having a high amount of T in your system. He also said that trans men on the Internet keep saying Sustanon is the best but it isn't true and stems from it simply being the first type of T available to trans men.
My question is if this is true why does the NHS GIC still prescribe Sustanon? I wish I asked him but I felt so anxious being there. And are there any articles that prove Sustanon is more harmful than gel or Nebido?
Thanks for any advice

Hey Elis,

Did he tell you what the health consequences were exactly? As far as I've read online, most people who have taken a propionate (like Sustanon) and a cypionate (like the injectable we have in the US) say that there has been no discernible difference in their mood, changes, T levels, etc. I'd be very interested to hear what health concerns your doctor has regarding it since it's so widely prescribed here.

Personally, I wish we had Nebido here and that would be what I would push for if I had the option. Like you, I started on gel and found it awfully inconvenient to apply everyday. I find the injections a lot more manageable (once I got over my needle phobia), but would looooove to only need an injection once a quarter.

There is a thread on this forum with some discussion that might help:
http://www.androids.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=219.0

I don't have any scientific proof or articles about Sustanon vs. Nebido/gel but I've been on all three T variants, gel > Sustanon > Nebido. As much of a hassle as applying gel daily was, in retrospect, Sustanon was worse.

Of course it varies from person to person but for me, Sustanon caused my levels to fluctuate a lot. I felt like crap the day before my shot and my temper flared up. Also, Sustanon gave me the worst acne ever and I still battle with the aftermath of it.

Gels keep the T levels more stable as does Nebido once a regular shot schedule has settled in (the shot intervals are so long that it might take a while).

I personally like Nebido the most. I have only four shot days in a year, every 12 weeks. It is expensive, though, with no covering one shot is ~140€ (basic covering brings it down to ~90€) but since I have the special covering these days I pay only around 5€+needles and syringe. I don't know how big the price tag is elsewhere.
Going on Nebido also brought my acne down to manageable level. With Sustanon it didn't matter what I did to my face.
Might be completely unrelated but since going on injectable T (don't know which one caused it) but I can't tolerate chocolate these days as it causes my acne to flare up. I apparently react to the fat in it as I can consume dairy products otherwise with no worry.

Quote from: FTMax on February 12, 2016, 07:45:12 AM
Hey Elis,

Did he tell you what the health consequences were exactly? As far as I've read online, most people who have taken a propionate (like Sustanon) and a cypionate (like the injectable we have in the US) say that there has been no discernible difference in their mood, changes, T levels, etc. I'd be very interested to hear what health concerns your doctor has regarding it since it's so widely prescribed here.

Personally, I wish we had Nebido here and that would be what I would push for if I had the option. Like you, I started on gel and found it awfully inconvenient to apply everyday. I find the injections a lot more manageable (once I got over my needle phobia), but would looooove to only need an injection once a quarter.

There is a thread on this forum with some discussion that might help:
http://www.androids.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=219.0

I can't really remember what he said . He also told me that if the gel is working you shouldn't change it; which is fair enough but I can't help but keep thinking it's not as 'good' because that's what is constantly being said by trans men. He also said Sustanon supplies aren't reliable. So I guess I'll just stick with the gel for now. I am starting to see it working now I've been using it for 3 months which is really encouraging.

Any reason Nebido isn't allowed in the US? I would have thought drugs in America and Europe would be tested in the same way and for the same length of time.

Thanks Tossu-sama for the advice . Only having to take T 4 times a year sounds so much more convenient but I hate having to make doctors appointments and talking to people I don't know so it's not really an option for me. Glad to hear it works for you though . I haven't really noticed certain foods causing more acne, I have some moderate acne on my face anyway.

I admit, Nebido isn't the easiest to inject. There's a lot of it at once and it's really thick. Fortunately, I have my fiancée to do the needle poking for me. I just can't do it myself even if I'm not afraid of needles. But I do know of guys who self-inject Nebido, although I wonder how on earth they do it.

Quote from: Elis on February 14, 2016, 07:20:54 AM
... He also said Sustanon supplies aren't reliable. ...

I can verify this. I don't know how it is these days but when I was on Sustanon in 2013, there were frequent supply shortages to the point that I had to call my doctor for a gel prescription. I eventually had to switch back to gel before going on Nebido at the start of 2014.

Tossu-sama- forgot to mention Nebido has to be injected by a nurse here in the UK; otherwise I'd probably switch to that instead of gel if I could.
My doctor also said people who switch to Sustanon usually switch back to gel again because of the side effects.

Wow, that's strict. o_O I mean, the paper that comes with the vial package does say it should be injected by a medical professional (both Sustanon and Nebido) and I don't think the doctors here who prescribe T are too happy about self-injecting either but all they can do is say "don't do it".

But would it be possible that you book all the shot days for a nurse at once if you go on Nebido? I used to go to the nurse at my previous job's occupational health care and got the next date booked everytime.

You should be able to make nurse/doctor appointments for the whole year. The only time I have issues is if their calendar for the new year is not ready yet. I make appointments for the whole year when I got my birth control shot. (though that didn't guarantee that it was in stock. One time I went and they were out). I switched doctors after that.

Thanks Tossu-sama and Alex . Hmm I don't see why I can't make the appointments in one go. The NHS can be rather disorganised and I haven't heard any experiences of trans men in the UK taking nebido. Just the idea of having to make the appointments gives me anxiety. Plus having a complete stranger put a needle in my ass doesn't sound like my idea of a good time .

Quote from: Elis on February 15, 2016, 02:46:54 PM
Plus having a complete stranger put a needle in my ass doesn't sound like my idea of a good time .

Not gonna lie here, it won't be good time if you get a nurse who just rams the stuff in. It'll eff up the muscle for the next few days. IM shots have to be done slowly so the muscle can adapt to having thick substance inside it.
The first nurse I went to with Sustanon just pushed the stuff in and I was practically half crippled for the next day or two (we tried thigh muscle, bad choice). The next one knew what he was doing, did the shot slowly to my behind and I had no problems. So if you find a nurse who knows their stuff and does the shots well, I'd try to get all the appointments to them.

Quote from: Elis on February 14, 2016, 07:20:54 AM
Any reason Nebido isn't allowed in the US? I would have thought drugs in America and Europe would be tested in the same way and for the same length of time.

I meant to answer this days ago

It actually has been approved by the US FDA under the name Aveed in 2014. I haven't heard of any transmen being prescribed it though. It looks like at least here, it is not something you'd be able to pick up at any pharmacy and take home to self-inject - it has to be ordered through a specialty pharmacy by a doctor to administer in office, every injection.

It also looks like it is extremely expensive from what I can tell. I'll ask my doctor about it the next time I see her.