I've heard Galatians 3: 28 around in support of gender non confirming a lot - "neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." I'm not religious though so it could be a misquote. :/

Quote from: T.K.G.W. on February 17, 2016, 09:16:44 AM
You should ask them which bit of the Bible specifically says being transgender is wrong.

Been there, done that. Fact of the matter is, I just don't care anymore what they believe. Not when it is based on what is - in *my* opinion - a work of fiction. It's like arguing about what size Cinderella's glass slippers were, as far as I'm concerned, and I'm not going to waste my time doing it. Besides, there's always a comeback. My brother's favourite is "even the devil can quote scripture". I don't really worry about it anymore. The only thing that really gets on my nerves is the ever-popular passive aggressive "hate the sin, love the sinner" line.

They're going to believe whatever they like, and if they're happy doing it - fine by me, so long as they aren't hanging on my doorbell to tell me about it, or trying to pass laws against me. That's the only time when I take a genuine interest in it these days. And even then, it only extends to pointing out that I'm not living in a theocracy, and neither are they.

Arguing with them is futile.  They believe God is inside them guiding them in all truth.  So they feel justified in any whacky idea they dream up out of thin air.

Write them off.


Sapere Aude

Quote from: Peep on February 17, 2016, 09:45:23 AM
I've heard Galatians 3: 28 around in support of gender non confirming a lot - "neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." I'm not religious though so it could be a misquote. :/

You are not misquoting.   

Quote from: Jessie Ann on February 16, 2016, 08:43:38 PM
Hugs girl.  There are all kinds of "Christians" who will pass judgment on you as they do on me.  Apparently they have not learned many of the lessons that Christ provided for his followers.  These "Christians" forget that it is not their place to judge.  Many of them love to mix and match biblical passages to serve their judgmental needs.  They will selectively cite Old Testament passages but omit and ignore similar passages that condemn things that they do on a regular basis.  In the end, I have no time for "Christians" who are not followers of Christ.  There is only one who gets to judge me.  Until that time I try to be the best person I can be and know, that as a human, I am fallen but I continue to pray for the forgiveness that has been promised by God who gave his son so that we can have everlasting life if we believe in him.       

I don't think I could have put this any better.  I have challenged my pastor on a continual basis, yet he refuses to understand.  He says that he wants to be my friend yet tells me that he prays 'that I change my mind'.  That is not a friend. 

What they fail to understand is that the choice isn't to be trans or not trans.  The choice is to treat the condition or not treat the condition. 

Until everyone is talking about the same choice there will remain a failure to communicate.


Sapere Aude

Quote from: Deborah on February 17, 2016, 01:53:47 PM
What they fail to understand is that the choice isn't to be trans or not trans.  The choice is to treat the condition or not treat the condition. 

Until everyone is talking about the same choice there will remain a failure to communicate.


Sapere Aude

EXACTLY!

The condition never goes away.

Our society is not well, few are paying any attention to anything. So much deliberate ignorance.
So many pushing THEIR idea of how it "should" be, most of us decide to just shut it all out and decide that only we, ourselves know what is going on in our reality. All those other folks out there in the world, insane.

It's scary to open up and trust people, to listen to them, and to allow yourself to be listened to. We humans are all hiding in our little bubbles terrified of each other. Many lash out at those things that they fear. Or run from them.
Try to ignore them.

I dont normally get involved regarding religious matters because i have No right to comment as im not religious.. But......

After reading this it really touched a nerve and im so sorry that you have had to go through all this.. When will people learn that Being religious is a choice. That is something you decide to be, and that is how you chose to live... But being transgendered is who you are, you have to be who you are and you Have to live your life that way..

I do respect all religions and i am happy that people can find peace within it.. I truly am but when they use religion to dictate someones way of living that is wrong.. And it is that im against...

Im sorry for the rant, but like i said it touched a nerve and im so sorry you have to go through this.. Take care lea xx

Sent from my LG-D722 using Tapatalk

It is very easy for a person that is not walking in someone else's shoes to sit back and form harsh opinions and beliefs about the other person's journey. These opinions and beliefs are often based on societal norms or on what was taught when they were growing up. They can also be based on misinterpreted/misunderstood scripture as is happening in your situation.

A cisgender person cannot understand what our life is like and they certainly would not "choose" this life. It is beyond me how anyone can think this life is a life that anyone would "choose" given the pain, suffering, and losses that are involved.

A wonderful gift that we were given is the ability to learn from life and to learn from other people; a reasonable person changes their views on things as they learn and admits when they were wrong about something. We were also given the gift of empathy to be able to relate to other people's situations and to offer kindness. Some people however refuse to use these gifts; they refuse to hear and to see what is plainly in front of them. In the case of the scripture quoting people that are harassing you I guess it has not occurred to them that they will be judged some day for their hard hearts and their refusal to be empathetic and show kindness and understanding to another person's struggle.

As the English clergyman Matthew Henry once said:

"None so deaf as those that will not hear. None so blind as those that will not see"

My suggestion is to remove these people from your life - a person that has chosen to be blind and deaf is not going to be receptive to any explanation that you place before them.

When I started down this road my wife found my counselor as she had more time to search for and set up appointments. We ended up at a Christian counseling service. I was sceptical at first as I have had my dealings with organised religion. That is one of the things that kept me from admitting to myself I was trans for so long and why I hid it and lived a lie for 38 years. My counselor put it best, there is spearituality which is in the Bible, and there is religion which is man's interpretation of the Bible. One of the things I had to work through is how I could walk this road and not be damed to hell. Not that they are sure things but here are some of my thoughts. It says in the Bible that we are born without sin, so if that is true and we from our earliest age are trans how is that a sin? Even if it is a sin, keep in mind that God dosent know sin in degree, it is no different to lie than to be trans, and in truth we are lying when we live as we are not. Also we can never achieve being without sin in this broken world and anyone that sits in judgement is being a hypocrite.

Quote from: leacobb on February 19, 2016, 05:55:54 AM
I dont normally get involved regarding religious matters because i have No right to comment as im not religious.. But......

After reading this it really touched a nerve and im so sorry that you have had to go through all this.. When will people learn that Being religious is a choice. That is something you decide to be, and that is how you chose to live... But being transgendered is who you are, you have to be who you are and you Have to live your life that way..

I do respect all religions and i am happy that people can find peace within it.. I truly am but when they use religion to dictate someones way of living that is wrong.. And it is that im against...

Im sorry for the rant, but like i said it touched a nerve and im so sorry you have to go through this.. Take care lea xx

Leacobb, I agree with your entire post.

I am an athiest and have my own opinions of religion, yet I would never consider imparting those opinions on those who choose to believe in the supernatural because I respect others right to believe in and live their lives in accordance with whatever version of whatever religion they like. What I do have a problem with however, is when religious people judge, criticise or condemn myself or others for not fitting in with their own personal beliefs.

To me at least, religion is a set of encoded beliefs that a group of people subscribe to, they could be any old thing some charismatic person wrote down.

Spirituality on the other hand is that indescribable something we all have deep inside and our relationship with it.

So many people confuse the two.

"My interpretation of this large book is better than yours!" they cry.
"Your choices do not conform with the ideals I have formed based upon hearing a very charismatic person describe a book he read once." ... "They said that the book said that the book was correct."

I came across an advertising brochure printed by McDonald's talking about how healthy McDonald's food is.

Religion is one way that people deal with the uncertainty of life and the certainty of change. In a changing society they all gather in their groups and try to resist the change, or at least agree on what change is good vs bad. Of course this fails to take in the very heart of what the Christian movement started as not a police force for the culture, but a way for people to transcend the culture, love one another, help one another and focus on God

I'm a Liberal Christian. When anyone tells me that this is wrong, or that is wrong i always look at them and ask..Why don't you focus on what is right? 

They used to tell me it was a phase.  I couldn't help but smile at them.  I knew it was pointless to argue because actions speak louder than words.  Almost 2 years HRT, legal name and gender change...now, I am an abomination.  But I prefer they call me the Abominable Transquatch.

To my benefit, I don't believe in a higher power so all their talk of hell is never going anywhere.

The way I see it as long as they don't resort to violence, I just let them waste their breath.

When I came out at work I had a transition team of over 20 of which many were group supervisors. One group supervisor is extremely religious and two very religious. I was very apprehensive as I told them in private one by one. They were very supportive. I was so surprised.

When we all meet the week before I came out at work. The one supervisor who was religious said he has someone that is trans in his family and he said family is family and that is that. I had one manager say his best friend was trans (she died) and they were (I guess they are for life) in a MC. I knew her too but was no where as close as the manager. He shared a story and got emotional during the story.

You never know, religious, super religious and motorcycle club members are individuals and you can find support where it is least expected. Give people a chance before you withdraw from them.

My best friend's very religious mother convinced my mom that this was just "some idea they [we] cooked up". Shortly after coming out to my parents, said friend's mother dropped by a shipment of bumper stickers that read "Don't believe everything you think" and continues to be a pain in the rear. A very religious friend of mine has told me repeatedly that she doesn't believe God makes mistakes and that I'm just confused, among other things. Growing up, I was a strong advocate for free-thinking, so I don't let this kind of stuff get to me too much.

The Devil never said you were going to Hell. The Devil gave them that idea.

I'm not a Christian, not even close, but I know that there's no time when being transgender is mentioned in the Bible. Keep in mind, these are some things that you're also going to Hell for according to Christianity:

* Wearing clothes made of two materials
* Eating pork or shellfish
* divorcing
* adultery is punishable by death

And many more. Also, keep in mind, basically everyone is going to Hell, considering that being anything but Christian is also on the no-no list. So, the non-Christian majority is going to Hell with us as well. Which leaves us with the orthodox christians who actually follow these rules... which means, we only have a tiny, tiny few people who aren't actually going to Hell if you believe in it.

  And even then... would you want to go to Heaven with this people? I doubt so. I'd much rather go to a thousand Hells and be tortured than be at "peace" surrounded by crazed, hypocritical people like Westboro baptists and such who have such ridiculous and outdated beliefs (though, to be fair, none of them would qualify for heaven either).

   I guess I'm biased because my religion doesn't have a "Hell", so I didn't know it was a thing until I started school and the Christians tried to tell me I was going to Hell. I shrugged it off, and still do now.

Don't let them get to you.

Who'd wanna go to heaven if it was filled with judgmental bigots.

If all the accepting kind people I know are going to hell, then hell, I'm going too. 

I've heard this so many times, all from my own family. They never judged people using their religion, until I came out to them. Then all of a sudden even the non-religious ones were throwing scriptures in my face. I stopped talking to them altogether as a result, but I don't know what your situation is. I had the support of a wife and kids, so I wasn't cutting off all my support. Still it's not good to live with that kind of negativity. I do still get depressed over it from time to time, but I wrote journal entries at the time of these conversations and I return to them when I feel like it's a good idea to call them again. They attacked me when I needed them most and I still feel the need to see them? Crazy.

Quote from: schwarzwalderkirschtort on March 02, 2016, 05:55:14 PM
The Devil never said you were going to Hell. The Devil gave them that idea.

I'm not a Christian, not even close, but I know that there's no time when being transgender is mentioned in the Bible. Keep in mind, these are some things that you're also going to Hell for according to Christianity:

* Wearing clothes made of two materials
* Eating pork or shellfish
* divorcing
* adultery is punishable by death

And many more. Also, keep in mind, basically everyone is going to Hell, considering that being anything but Christian is also on the no-no list. So, the non-Christian majority is going to Hell with us as well. Which leaves us with the orthodox christians who actually follow these rules... which means, we only have a tiny, tiny few people who aren't actually going to Hell if you believe in it.

  And even then... would you want to go to Heaven with this people? I doubt so. I'd much rather go to a thousand Hells and be tortured than be at "peace" surrounded by crazed, hypocritical people like Westboro baptists and such who have such ridiculous and outdated beliefs (though, to be fair, none of them would qualify for heaven either).

   I guess I'm biased because my religion doesn't have a "Hell", so I didn't know it was a thing until I started school and the Christians tried to tell me I was going to Hell. I shrugged it off, and still do now.

Don't let them get to you.

Graven images! It's like the second commandment: "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth." Whoops, there goes the Renaissance