At work the other day I heard these two topics intertwined Christianity and transgenders. It was like they make Jesus out to be a transgender hating savior. All this being said I have not come out at work but, I supect they are beginning to identify me and I soon will be outed as a trans woman. I heard statements like the transgender weren't born that way they should accept the gender God gave them. I thought to myself God did create Transgenders at birth. That begs the question of free will choice: is it really a choice? I defended transgenders to this individual unfortunately more came from my other Christian co workers who also bash transgender people. Would someone please tell Christians Jesus totally accepts us; there is nothing wrong with being transgender!!!!!!!👍🏻

Much Love,
Michelle

There is nothing wrong in being transgender.

I am not religious but if the bible I read meant anything was that Jesus accepted all people. Except for liars and money mongers who reject all for their own profit.

Oh and if you read Genesis it is clear that Eve was an XY female as she was created from a male rib.

Not sure how cis women were created according to Genesis!

Not all Christians are so prejudiced in other parts of the world .The bible Belt in the USA seems to be one of the worst area's for targeting Transgender People .Even North & southern Ireland well known for religious intolerance between catholic and protestants are far more accepting then they are in the States .Spain a Mainly Catholic country is also much more accepting Even Italy the heart of Catholicism was very welcoming and accepting and tolerant .If all these countries have better acceptance w3hat is wrong with the Churches in the USA .I attend a Anglo Catholic High church here in Portsmouth UK .The congregation are Mainly older people of My age group 60 plus so it is not down to LGBT influences on the Younger Generation but I have had nothing but True acceptance and friendship from the Clergy and parishioners . I do Readings take part in PCC meetings, Rebaptism ceremonies and accept communion I am accepted by all as a Woman and I am treated as any other woman by all .I have been introduced to our Bishop as Well .So why do the American so called Christians have such a problem with us .

Sorry RANT over

In the 17th century the Protestants in England that were too fundamentalist and hardheaded to get along with anyone left Europe and came to America to set up their own Calvinist based theocracy.  That set the core basis of American Protestant religious thought that still exists today.  That's why.  They essentially hate anything that interferes with their vision of establishing an Old Testament styled theocracy here on earth.


Sapere Aude

I'm one of the worst kind of Christians, a Catholic, we seem to be the most despised among all groups even among Christians.

Quote from: ToniB on February 22, 2016, 03:07:04 AM
Not all Christians are so prejudiced in other parts of the world .The bible Belt in the USA seems to be one of the worst area's for targeting Transgender People .

As bad as it might seem sometimes here it's a whole lot worse in Africa and some other third world areas.


Sapere Aude

Quote from: stephaniec on February 22, 2016, 03:56:13 AM
I'm one of the worst kind of Christians, a Catholic, we seem to be the most despised among all groups even among Christians.

Credit for that goes primarily to Henry VIII with a strong second to Elizabeth I. 


Sapere Aude

As I understand it, the biblical quotes concerning men dressing in women's clothing have a lot to do with the priesthood of Cybele because they removed their testicles and dressed as women.  If you view it as a dislike of a competing religion, it makes a lot more sense. 

Quote from: stephaniec on February 22, 2016, 03:56:13 AM
I'm one of the worst kind of Christians, a Catholic, we seem to be the most despised among all groups even among Christians.

I've always been utterly baffled by the belief that catholics aren't christians.  I have a fairly comprehensive list of suggestions for criticism of the group, but I really don't believe that's a defensible line of attack. 

I have always seen it as some Christians use their religion as a way to excuse their biased opinions. I know other Christian like people to be really understanding and open minded, like this guy at a salvation army store. He is so sweet and you feel like you could tell him anything and he won't be judgemental.

Christianity, Judaism and Islam are example of religions that have a very skeptic views at both transgender and homosexual, LGBT generally. That is something that comes from the old age, when the society were difference. The bible were written for more than thousand years ago. Since people still believes at these religions and the book is so old, therefor they keeps some old days traditional. One of them are their LGBT views. For thousand of years ago the humans didn't have so much knowledge about things that we have today, example technology, science and how things works. The books are written by humans and the rules were also human made. I'm a atheist, so I don't believe at God. But if a god existed, he would probably not written these books, but humans would do it. In the past when people didn't understand what epilepsy, autism and Down syndrome was (to mention something), they thought the person was controlled by demons. So exorcists tried to cure them, because they didn't understand how it worked. Later in modern days, the science could explain there was something people were born with and they couldn't help it. Something is easier to proof the fundamentalists than other, therefor something are more accepted than others.

Quote from: Colleen M on February 22, 2016, 04:55:26 AM
As I understand it, the biblical quotes concerning men dressing in women's clothing have a lot to do with the priesthood of Cybele because they removed their testicles and dressed as women.  If you view it as a dislike of a competing religion, it makes a lot more sense.

Yes, the Church disliked pagan religion.  Beyond that it held special contempt for the priestesses of Cybele, the Gallae.  These priestesses did not just castrate themselves.  They removed everything in an annual public ceremony and then spent the rest of their lives living as women and serving as priestesses in the Temples of Cybele.  For all practical purposes they were trans women, existing in Rome at least as early as the first century and elsewhere as early as 600 BC. 

I'm going to quote what St. Augustine wrote in the late 4th Century to show exactly what the Church thought of them.  My source is:
Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers 1.2: St. Augustine's City of God and Christian Doctrine.  Book 7, Chapter 26.
Mods: If this does go to far please delete it, hopefully without any minus rep points.  But I think it's important to know the truth and quit giving Christianity a pass for their treatment of trans people.  St. Augustine is a Dr. of the Church and is a primary source of both Catholic and Protestant religious dogma.  The Church is not our friend and it never has been.

QuoteConcerning the effeminates consecrated to the same Great Mother, in defiance of all the modesty which belongs to men and women, . . .
These effeminates, no later than yesterday, were going through the streets and places of Carthage with anointed hair, whitened faces, relaxed bodies, and feminine gait, exacting from the people the means of maintaining their ignominious lives. . . .
The Great Mother has surpassed all her sons, not in greatness of deity, but of crime. . . .
she inflicts the loss of members on men. This abomination is not surpassed by the licentious deeds of Jupiter, so many and so great.  He, with all his seductions of women, only disgraced heaven with one Ganymede; she, with so many avowed and public effeminates, has both defiled the earth and outraged heaven. . . .
This Great Mother of the gods, however, has brought mutilated men into Roman temples, and has preserved that cruel custom, . . .

Sapere Aude

Much of the church's reasoning behind bashing anyone of the LGBT spectrum is that they believe that human sexuality is directly related to human reproduction. I was a part of one the countries largest youth organizations, & the whole "Adam & Eve, not Adam & Steve" argument was sufficient for many christians when deciding how human sexuality is right and wrong. I accepted this logic for many years, especially when working within the evangelical movement. For me, my feelings about all of this changed the moment I met someone who was intersex. I started to realize that if christians are right and God does create everyone, then he also creates the intersexual people of the world, which in turn makes the whole reproduction argument go up in smoke.

In regards to christians in the south. I am a born and raised southerner, & while it is more difficult for individuals who are LGBT here, it's not everyone. Even before I ever came to the realization that I'm transgender, I had gay friends & knew other christians that didn't hate people different than them. I think part of this comes from the fact that more people struggle with issues in relation to sexuality than they would like for others to know. Studies have proven that many straight identifying men are still attracted to transgender women, but don't identify as gay. I would say that the results of that study are true everywhere, even here in the south.

I really believe things are improving, it's just going to take time for things to get to where we would like them to be.

Quote from: ToniB on February 22, 2016, 03:07:04 AM
Not all Christians are so prejudiced in other parts of the world .The bible Belt in the USA seems to be one of the worst area's for targeting Transgender People .Even North & southern Ireland well known for religious intolerance between catholic and protestants are far more accepting then they are in the States .Spain a Mainly Catholic country is also much more accepting Even Italy the heart of Catholicism was very welcoming and accepting and tolerant .If all these countries have better acceptance w3hat is wrong with the Churches in the USA .I attend a Anglo Catholic High church here in Portsmouth UK .The congregation are Mainly older people of My age group 60 plus so it is not down to LGBT influences on the Younger Generation but I have had nothing but True acceptance and friendship from the Clergy and parishioners . I do Readings take part in PCC meetings, Rebaptism ceremonies and accept communion I am accepted by all as a Woman and I am treated as any other woman by all .I have been introduced to our Bishop as Well .So why do the American so called Christians have such a problem with us .

Sorry RANT over

I can definitely believe that the U.K. is alot more accepting of trans people because this is very comparable to how blacks were treated during things like segregation. Blacks who were celebrities in the early 1900s and stuff would go to the U.K. maybe like on tours and stuff and would be shocked at how vastly different people treated them there compared to the U.S.A. and wondered if they should just live there.

So what I wanna know too is why can't the U.S.A. be like that? They talk about how Christian, God-fearing and unconditionally loving they are but they sure suck at it when it comes to something they don't even want to understand (transgender). Guess they are not so accepting after all. That's not unconditional love. You love, accept and support someone no matter what, if that love is unconditional. They don't need The Bible. They need a Webster's Dictionary.



-Phoenix

Quote from: King Phoenix on February 22, 2016, 04:09:34 PM
I can definitely believe that the U.K. is alot more accepting of trans people because this is very comparable to how blacks were treated during things like segregation. Blacks who were celebrities in the early 1900s and stuff would go to the U.K. maybe like on tours and stuff and would be shocked at how vastly different people treated them there compared to the U.S.A. and wondered if they should just live there.

So what I wanna know too is why can't the U.S.A. be like that? They talk about how Christian, God-fearing and unconditionally loving they are but they sure suck at it when it comes to something they don't even want to understand (transgender). Guess they are not so accepting after all. That's not unconditional love. You love, accept and support someone no matter what, if that love is unconditional. They don't need The Bible. They need a Webster's Dictionary.



-Phoenix

There is a definite hypocritical attitude amongst many evangelicals today, but I have met many that do show unconditional love.

These are all reasons why I quite the church and became a deist years ago. I've personally witnessed too much hypocrisy in the church for my liking. It's more of a business model than anything.

Exactly my point. If anything, my dad's dog is a better Christian than any Christian these days for the most part. I mean, I think there are decent Christian people in The States but for Pete's sake these pastor's on tv only teach prosperity. Meaning that the only reason you should want to do good deeds is to get rewarded in Heaven. So in the end, its kinda selfish. They get people to put their money down in their offerings. Just a big old industry is what it is. It can expand into so many different things; tv, movies, music and books. Joyce Myers and Joel Olsteen and Kirk Franklin and all them suckers is makin' big bucks.$$$



-Phoenix

being raised church of christ, and that being one of the more conservative denominations, i feel somewhat "qualified" to have some input here.

i think it boils down to this: the human brain's job is to format incoming information, process it through beliefs and blinders, then the whole of experience is "projected" to "us", whatever and wherever that is. *shrug*

one of the brain's big jobs is to maintain the status quo, concerning your subjective experience. when information comes along that challenges your world view (in this case, trans ppl being taken as evidence that either god makes mistakes, god isnt actually real, etc, nevermind the whole goldfish sex change thing built into nature and a myriad of other prime examples)

anyway, when your brain develops a "dichotomy", meaning you have two conflicting beliefs fighting for space in your head, it causes a physiological reaction similar to if you were being physically assaulted.

in essence, their (my dad, for instance) brains feel like they're actually in danger at a level underneath logical thinking, and they react/retaliate, if they're not mature enough to deal with it, anyway. the rest of my christian fam, for instance, is totes cool with it.

Unfortunately its a vocal group the "anti-everythings" with no basis in the teaching of Christ. Fortunately there are a lot of us liberal Christian folk and many churches that refute this absurdity. United Methodists, Episcopalians, Quakers and the list goes on and on. I consider myself a Catholic although i more often go to another denomination of church.

Catholics who are traditionally anti-many things, are actually on a whole pretty liberal when you get to the rank and file and our Pope, while not perfect, has begun another round of change/liberalization.

The evangelicals and others that pursue divisiveness are really fighting a culture war of their own making, and they gain from that both in getting fearful people to rally with them, and in money. Instead of doing the hard thing and showing the love of Christ to the needy, the sick, the refugees, the immigrants, and other faiths, they choose to be pharisees and protect a fading culture, that for some reason they love dearly. Christ was somewhat critical of the pharisees if you recall.

In a nut shell, I think they just think they are better than us. Just because they can quote from the Bible passages that back their statements doe not make them better. My God still loves me just as much as He loves them.

Love,
Clare

Quote from: Deborah on February 22, 2016, 09:02:36 AM
But I think it's important to know the truth and quit giving Christianity a pass for their treatment of trans people.  St. Augustine is a Dr. of the Church and is a primary source of both Catholic and Protestant religious dogma.  The Church is not our friend and it never has been.



Sapere Aude

Indeed and thank you for enlarging the point.  I find it best that I be as brief as possible when discussing religion as I like it as a topic much more than as a concept.  Its fans do not seem to find this encouraging for some reason.