I've been feeling really bad recently, and it just seems to be getting worse. I've had very bad dysphoria the past couple of weeks, and it's made worse by having to interact with strangers. Which unfortunately I have to a lot because I work in retail. I am constantly misgendered by customers, and every time they refer to me as 'she' or 'the lady on the till' it really hurts, like physically, if that makes any sense? My coworkers know my pronouns and know not to use gendered language about me, but still slip up often. I get very very anxious when I'm misgendered (I was diagnosed recently with severe anxiety), and am often on the verge of full on anxiety attacks at work. I don't know what to do really, I've tried everything to not get perceived as a woman, even going so far as to present as more masculine than I actually like to, and nothing seems to work. I wear baggy clothes, button down shirts, my hair is very short, I try to talk in a deeper voice, the only make up I wear is to darken and 'rough up' my eyebrows...Nothing seems to make a difference. It gets to the point where I get extremely low, and can't stop thinking about how 'no one will ever see me as my actual gender, they'll always see me as 'a woman who doesn't conform to gender''. It just really feels hopeless at the moment and I just don't know how I'm meant to 'just deal with it' which is what I feel like people in my life are telling me to do. I always end up feeling like it's my fault I feel this way, because I make things too complicated with my gender.

Quote from: Hunchdebunch on March 01, 2016, 01:55:15 PM
I've been feeling really bad recently, and it just seems to be getting worse. I've had very bad dysphoria the past couple of weeks, and it's made worse by having to interact with strangers. Which unfortunately I have to a lot because I work in retail. I am constantly misgendered by customers, and every time they refer to me as 'she' or 'the lady on the till' it really hurts, like physically, if that makes any sense? My coworkers know my pronouns and know not to use gendered language about me, but still slip up often. I get very very anxious when I'm misgendered (I was diagnosed recently with severe anxiety), and am often on the verge of full on anxiety attacks at work. I don't know what to do really, I've tried everything to not get perceived as a woman, even going so far as to present as more masculine than I actually like to, and nothing seems to work. I wear baggy clothes, button down shirts, my hair is very short, I try to talk in a deeper voice, the only make up I wear is to darken and 'rough up' my eyebrows...Nothing seems to make a difference. It gets to the point where I get extremely low, and can't stop thinking about how 'no one will ever see me as my actual gender, they'll always see me as 'a woman who doesn't conform to gender''. It just really feels hopeless at the moment and I just don't know how I'm meant to 'just deal with it' which is what I feel like people in my life are telling me to do. I always end up feeling like it's my fault I feel this way, because I make things too complicated with my gender.

I know exactly how you feel. You are certainly not alone on these forms. You are probably dreaming of the boy/man you should have been, could be.

Find some people in your area who are TG and form good relationships for a support system. If you can find a good therapist that specializes in gender dsyphoria.

Are your family and friends supportive of your crossdressing?

Hey, cheer up Public misgendering even happens to cisfolk occasionally.

Unfortunately you're kinda seeing what it means to "pass" or "not pass".  Even though your identity is valid no matter what, society is still set up largely on a binary scale.  Everyone wants to say he or she, because that's what it's always been.  At a glance, you probably just look like a very tomboyish woman.

You'll find that people will be determined to gender you, actually.  They might search for nametags or ask for you name, and try to make a guess.  Names like Jordan and Ryan would stump me.  They might listen for someone use to use a he or she first.  Somehow, they crack it.

This is sort of why going full-time is a major thing.  You have to really change a lot of details if you want to be properly gendered.  Unfortunately for me, I'm even asked if I'm just a gay guy sometimes...  It's a bit of an adventure.

Many *hugs*

I'd experiment around some more in private and see what you can come up with.  Generally, most people are going to have to decide if you are male or female.  Most people don't use the "they" pronouns.  Also if customers are regulars, they may set their decision in stone to use on mamy visits to come.

Also, cut your coworkers some slack.  I'm sure you already have, you sound too innocent to be mad at them.  Habit is something hard to break.  Same thing for regular customers if they're ever in the know about this.

If you aren't happy with he or she, unfortunately you might want to settle for one at some point.  I'm more okay with she than he personally.  Even though my gender identity is fairly empty, I'm more than okay with expressing myself as female to get those she's instead of he's.  Given, I'm not the girliest girl, because that's just not me.  In a situation where you feel totally gender nonconforming, you miht learn to not care.  For some folk I know it actually made them feel better to get half and half.  And every once in a while, if you make it truly hard to tell...  You do find that some people eventually give up, and avoid pronouns altogether

Just some scatterer thoughts, dont know if it's much help.  But hey, cheer up   It gets better.

Yeah I just wish I could actually correct people, you know? Like I don't feel safe to say 'Actually I'm not a lady' when someone misgenders me. I feel like my boss might not want me to, and also I'm scared of how customers might react?

And I don't tend to get annoyed at my coworkers for slipping up unless they start getting defensive afterwards ('I'm sorry, I'm really tired today so it's hard to remember' or 'Sorry, it's just they isn't a normal pronoun'), because then I just feel like a burden to them, and unfortunately they do this often. I wish they would just say sorry, leave it at that, and we could just move on? The other trouble is, quite often they slip up in front of a customer, and therefore 100% guarantee that next time the customer speaks about me they will misgender me too, regardless of how the customer may have originally perceived me.

I don't really understand what going full time means, to be honest. I am out to almost everyone except for my extended family, and as I said I get too scared to correct strangers but am tempted to just bite the bullet and start, but I get anxious in social situations often. I recently got a binder, and am considering top surgery somewhere down the line if I can get past my fear of anything medical. I don't currently have any intention of starting T, and probably won't ever as most of the effects don't interest me.

I would slightly prefer to be referred to as he instead of she, but the trouble is that almost never happens. I have tried to 'pass' as a guy, because it would be less uncomfortable than being referred to as a girl, but mostly it still doesn't work.

I've been on the verge of quitting my job so many times recently, just because of the amount of stress my gender causes me while I'm there. I'm dysphoric enough without having people constantly remind me. I'm just worried that one day soon I'm actually just going to have a breakdown in the middle of the shop, because I'll have finally been misgendered one too many times.

I wish I could cheer up. I kind of feel like I'll never be able to. Everything's just too confusing and stressful and I just feel like I need to somehow step away from absolutely everything for a while, or maybe sleep for a year or something.

Quote from: Hunchdebunch on March 01, 2016, 05:45:55 PM
or maybe sleep for a year or something.

I'm in with you there.

There is a thread on passing.
You might post a few photos there and ask for opinions.
Maybe people have a few helpful hints.
If you're concerned for privacy, you can use a photo hoster and link there.
After a few days you can remove the photo from the hoster site.

Otherwise you might:
-use mens clothes. Second hand could be a good source.
-be more active, and use less indirect expressions like "might" etc
http://www.nyspeechandvoicelab.net/transgender/voice-masculinization/
-dark colours tend to hide surface so for shirts and sweaters dark could be an idea.
Not too dark for all the clothing maybe because it might affect mood.
-what about making a deadline?
Like trying to change as good as possible... and if it does not work out until the date you look for a new place?
So you could have a feeling something moves along.

many *hugs*

Hang in there babe, I think all of us have been somewhere without knowing what it was before.  That's what you're doing.

With a chest binder and changing your appearance, you're transitioning to being full-time already.  Full time is basically when you're totally being COMPLETELY yourself; clothes, name, posture, language, and everything.  Some of us have obstacles that prevent us from going full-time.  A later part of transition is tearing all of them down finally.  But you gotta start now.  And you already are.

As for your job, find another one before quitting if that's what you must do.  If you're serious, you should let the employers know about your problem before they hire you.  Maybe you can have a less socially inclined job.  I could never be a waitress, but I could cook a mean meal.  I couldn't help with face-to-face customer service, but I'd be able to run an email address on it.  If you get the idea, there's many jobs around that can help you avoid this dysphoria, which sounds like it mixes with it's own type of social anxiety.  Just please consider very carefully when getting a new job.

Cheering up, yes, you just said it yourself.  Stepping away is an option, as in my above paragraph.  You can also find hobbies and whatnot to do in free time to help "step away".

You'll have to male a few more steps to pass as a guy if you want to try that still.  Just give some thought on what could "give you away".  But be careful, don't sacrifice yourself completely to coming off as a guy, only as much as you need is what you should do.

Not sure what else to say, I don't know your situation personally, but what you describe is extremely relatable.  I'm in a similar spot.  I'm leaving my internship with a software company if I can't work there as a female.  Unfortunately the CEO is family, so that might not be an easy thing to do.

Whaddya know...unicorns...

Some good stuff here. 

They see what they want or need.  They dont understand.  We know our pronouns and genders.  They are innocents trapped in the binary system of is it a he or a she? Should i be attracted or will that make me gay?

That one cooks some heads...they cant handle andro.

I like making it a game.  Their confusion.  Unless i am full out.

Full time? Has nothing to do with presentation.  Has to do with self.

Passing as yourself just means not hiding yourself.  Blind cant see.  You can.  Thats all that matters.

Pronouns frustrate, i know, i am he without the wig even in full makeup to them.  But not me.

So i ignore them.

Dont run away from misgendering.  Rise above it.  Learn to grow wings and fly.

Satinjoy

Quote from: alienbodybuilder on March 01, 2016, 02:16:14 PM
I know exactly how you feel. You are certainly not alone on these forms. You are probably dreaming of the boy/man you should have been, could be.

Find some people in your area who are TG and form good relationships for a support system. If you can find a good therapist that specializes in gender dsyphoria.

Are your family and friends supportive of your crossdressing?

Ah I think there's been a bit of misunderstanding; I don't want to be a boy or man, nor do I identify as such. I just find it less hurtful at the moment if I am misgendered as 'he' rather than 'she', probably because that hasn't happened to me so much yet. I tried to 'pass' as a guy at work so customers might drop the 'miss' and 'darling's when they speak to me.

My immediate family are supportive, and my friends are too. My housemates actually use my pronouns without fail, and even began calling me Kolby when I told them I'd like to try out the name in the safety of my home. They now call me by this name without ever slipping up, even though one housemate also works with me and she has the added difficulty of remembering to use my birth name at work (I'm not using a new name there yet, as people are struggling enough with the pronouns). My two housemates set the bar pretty high, actually.


Thanks Satinjoy, those were some very positive words and something to try and think about


DiamondBladee: Yeah I wouldn't just suddenly quit my job. The trouble is, I do overall enjoy my job. I work in an art shop, and I'm an artist. It just makes sense, I know my stuff there, I can give good advice about products and techniques. I'm actually perfectly happy talking to customers for the most part. It's just that when I've been misgendered several times already that day, one more person doing so can really upset me. Especially if that person is a coworker, because I feel a little safer with them, so it's more of a shock when they slip up, I guess? I also don't think I can be bothered to try and pass as male at work anymore; it's not me, and when it doesn't even work it's completely exhausting. I'd rather just present as the gender-confusion that I actually am.


Laura_7: Is the thread on passing about passing as a guy? If so it's not really my place, to be honest. I'm interested in passing as 'too confusing for anyone to gender me' though haha


I hope I've actually responded to everyone, sorry if I missed you! Sorry I was so negative last night, it was a real build up and it got very rough. I'm not feeling quite so bad this morning, but I'm a bit delicate still so the worry is there that I might feel bad during/after work again :/

Quote from: Hunchdebunch on March 02, 2016, 02:56:40 AM
DiamondBladee: Yeah I wouldn't just suddenly quit my job. The trouble is, I do overall enjoy my job. I work in an art shop, and I'm an artist. It just makes sense, I know my stuff there, I can give good advice about products and techniques. I'm actually perfectly happy talking to customers for the most part. It's just that when I've been misgendered several times already that day, one more person doing so can really upset me. Especially if that person is a coworker, because I feel a little safer with them, so it's more of a shock when they slip up, I guess? I also don't think I can be bothered to try and pass as male at work anymore; it's not me, and when it doesn't even work it's completely exhausting. I'd rather just present as the gender-confusion that I actually am.

Oh god, don't leave art.  Nevermind woah.

Passing as yourself, again, isn't very easy because the world is kinda trapped in thinking on a binary scale.  If you aren't afraid to be yourself, go do it.  I encourage that.

Once upon a time people barely even know what a bisexual person was.  Now look around.  Unfortunately at this time the world isn't very aware of nonbinary genders, so the situation can't be totally simplified all in one post.  I knew a genderfluid person a while ago; we weren't close, but they really preferred neutral pronouns and avoiding gender altogether.  Regardless, people used he's and she's left and right due to appearance.  They said that the constant pronoun mix-ups kinda became their own thing.  The mixed up pronouns became it's own recognition almost.  Not sure if that helps much

Quote from: Hunchdebunch on March 02, 2016, 02:56:40 AM

You are non binary?

Yeah I think if people were calling me 'he' just as often as I get called 'she' I might feel less bad. At the moment though, I get 'she' about 90% of the time.

As for being myself, I'm both afraid of being myself and also afraid of not being myself. But I think not being myself would be far scarier, actually.

Quote from: Hunchdebunch on March 02, 2016, 02:27:13 PM
Yeah I think if people were calling me 'he' just as often as I get called 'she' I might feel less bad. At the moment though, I get 'she' about 90% of the time.

As for being myself, I'm both afraid of being myself and also afraid of not being myself. But I think not being myself would be far scarier, actually.

I had almost no personality for years, all because I didn't know what myself was, even remotely.  I was very antisocial and had only a few interests.  Now I'm unleashing the creative and social part of my mind which I had unintentionally locked up for so long.  So to answer your question, yes, it's scary.  I'm thankful that I was enlightened upon the fact that I needed to do something for myself.

Yeah, if the pronouns were mixed up more, that could make you feel better in a way (be open minded about that).  That could could have an androgynous feeling to it.  It might not be exactly what your dreams are, but it can be better than just he or she depending on how your nonbinary identity works?  Just some thought.  Only you can answer that, as its your identity and your feelings.

Fear of being yourself can be a variety of anxieties.  I personally used to be very anxious in public.  I started being myself alone, then around my closest friends, and eventually I just stopped caring.  It's a timely process though.  So you're afraid of being yourself; why, how, what?  I had some internal fears too, because I had concerns about people getting into my business.  I was also afraid of thinking that was me, only to discover it wasn't, hence resulting in me not being myself.  It's stuff like this that people use to invalidate themselves all the time.  Being yourself is a personal journey at first, and in the end, you're the one who knows the story the best

Look on YouTube for female to male transformation.  There are some that are accomplished with make up only and are very convincing.  Might help.

So I'm assuming because your co-workers know your pronoun preference your boss or supervisor knows also? I would really consider if it's possible changing your role within your job? I used to work in retail too but I was not serving customers I would just refill shelves so it meant less opportunity to interact and I think that would perhaps suit you better, I mean you might still experience it but it will be few and far in between, not sure how much of an option this might be however as I know bosses will want you to do what they want.

Congratulations.   You have started your journey.  You have come out to most folk.  Mis gendering does hurt, but folk react to gender cues etc and these cues may take time for you to fine tune. 

I think that we all feel stressed and anxious.  We do wish to be recognised and addressed as we see our true self.  I found a good therapist who helped me deal with stress by really listening to me and helping me work through my anxiety and potential strategies for dealing with this.  Once I found a few things that worked, I felt better, then as time passed I found that the mis gendering decreased and it had less impact on me.  In the end I knew my truth and I also knew that others will eventually recognise this.

Safe travels

Aisla

Quote from: Hunchdebunch on March 01, 2016, 05:45:55 PM
Yeah I just wish I could actually correct people, you know? Like I don't feel safe to say 'Actually I'm not a lady' when someone misgenders me. I feel like my boss might not want me to, and also I'm scared of how customers might react?

And I don't tend to get annoyed at my coworkers for slipping up unless they start getting defensive afterwards ('I'm sorry, I'm really tired today so it's hard to remember' or 'Sorry, it's just they isn't a normal pronoun'), because then I just feel like a burden to them, and unfortunately they do this often. I wish they would just say sorry, leave it at that, and we could just move on? The other trouble is, quite often they slip up in front of a customer, and therefore 100% guarantee that next time the customer speaks about me they will misgender me too, regardless of how the customer may have originally perceived me.

I don't really understand what going full time means, to be honest. I am out to almost everyone except for my extended family, and as I said I get too scared to correct strangers but am tempted to just bite the bullet and start, but I get anxious in social situations often. I recently got a binder, and am considering top surgery somewhere down the line if I can get past my fear of anything medical. I don't currently have any intention of starting T, and probably won't ever as most of the effects don't interest me.

I would slightly prefer to be referred to as he instead of she, but the trouble is that almost never happens. I have tried to 'pass' as a guy, because it would be less uncomfortable than being referred to as a girl, but mostly it still doesn't work.

I've been on the verge of quitting my job so many times recently, just because of the amount of stress my gender causes me while I'm there. I'm dysphoric enough without having people constantly remind me. I'm just worried that one day soon I'm actually just going to have a breakdown in the middle of the shop, because I'll have finally been misgendered one too many times.

I wish I could cheer up. I kind of feel like I'll never be able to. Everything's just too confusing and stressful and I just feel like I need to somehow step away from absolutely everything for a while, or maybe sleep for a year or something.

I would be glad to have any job where I wouldn't get fired for being myself and not pay any attention to what they called me, because I know who I am.