Quote from: King Phoenix on February 21, 2016, 07:18:18 AM
What I wanna know is why do we equate youthfulness with femininity? Like the younger people look they think of them as being less masculine and more feminine.

Honestly, I subconsciously become quite upset when someone repeatedly tells me that I look like a young boy or a teenage boy. For once I would just like to be told more often that I am a strapping, strong man. Period.

*Sigh* Maybe in a perfect world. But being able to accept my real self would mean that I do not need anyone's approval/opinion of me to validate my gender identity. I'm gettin to that point of nihilism in that...where I do not care and that being misgendered every so often really is not the end of all things as we know it. I guess now it just seems more painful because I realize the extent of gender. Like I'm learnin' to just deal with people's ignorance so I can do what I gotta do. Like for the first time in ages I finally agreed to go to the gym with my dad (I am the only person he knows who would tag along with him to such a place) because I gotta do what I gotta do in spite of the annoying misgendering, paranoia and social anxiety. I just suck it up until I can do better and move on. Sorry if I said too much. Not even sure where I am going with this post anymore.

Hey Pheonix, I understand your pain!  I don't think people equate youthfulness with effeminacy but rather that young men actually DO have more feminine features than older ones.  Unlike female puberty which pretty much guarantees that most ladies look like grown women by 18-21, men take a little long to finish "cooking," especially those of white and Asian descent.  Body mass develops slower so they can still be "lanky" well into their twenties and often facial hair doesn't even finish developing until the mid-twenties.  Some males are completely "cooked" by 18 or 19 with square jaw lines and large shoulders and all that jazz, but I would say most still have rounder features and a smaller build at that age-very similar to what FTMs have.  They even tend to have higher voices than men in their mid to late twenties.  As a former teacher, I saw this a lot in my students.  We had some boys (usually African American descent) who had huge muscles and were over six feet tall and had full beards and could have passed as thirty... But most of our senior boys could have worn a dress with a chance of passing as a girl.  Ten years later, no way.  Though your growth plates are usually sealed by the end of high school, most males are not finished with all their pubescent changes by 18, therefore an FTM looks more like a male who is younger and not fully developed than a fully developed older male.  Eventually age and enough time on T usually changes this perception.  Though I do think this says something about our expectations of T: basically most cis guys need almost ten years on T before looking fully 100% masculinized.

Quote from: FtMitch on February 24, 2016, 08:29:26 AM
Hey Pheonix, I understand your pain!  I don't think people equate youthfulness with effeminacy but rather that young men actually DO have more feminine features than older ones.  Unlike female puberty which pretty much guarantees that most ladies look like grown women by 18-21, men take a little long to finish "cooking," especially those of white and Asian descent.  Body mass develops slower so they can still be "lanky" well into their twenties and often facial hair doesn't even finish developing until the mid-twenties.  Some males are completely "cooked" by 18 or 19 with square jaw lines and large shoulders and all that jazz, but I would say most still have rounder features and a smaller build at that age-very similar to what FTMs have.  They even tend to have higher voices than men in their mid to late twenties.  As a former teacher, I saw this a lot in my students.  We had some boys (usually African American descent) who had huge muscles and were over six feet tall and had full beards and could have passed as thirty... But most of our senior boys could have worn a dress with a chance of passing as a girl.  Ten years later, no way.  Though your growth plates are usually sealed by the end of high school, most males are not finished with all their pubescent changes by 18, therefore an FTM looks more like a male who is younger and not fully developed than a fully developed older male.  Eventually age and enough time on T usually changes this perception.  Though I do think this says something about our expectations of T: basically most cis guys need almost ten years on T before looking fully 100% masculinized.

This is true - my bf is 26 and he's only just grown a beard with no big holes in it this year. if he shaved it off he'd still look like a baby

Hairline's probably a thing too, younger boys have a more 'feminine' hairline

Heck, I know a guy who's in his mid-thirties who generally wears a full beard. He says himself that one reason he keeps it is that without it, he looks like a 15-year-old girl. (As far as his face goes, that is -- he's tall and muscular and would never be mistaken for one on the street.)

I feel yout pain :/ honestly as much as I wear certain clothes or snip my hair Im not quite near yet to being a male and am frequently misgendered, and I simply have to brush it off for simplicities sake and just not care. I have some priorities and needs to accompany before I can dream to further get hormones and such, but I would really want to.

My friends readily view me as male though as well as myself so I get by well

The Peter Pan topic was a page or so ago but reminded me of a story my mom recounts now and again. When I was a toddler I was dropped off at daycare. The ladies working there spent the whole time trying to get my name...but I insisted it was Peter Pan. Haha. I was/am a dork.
http://imgur.com/a/DBjkP

On another note...how am I fairing?

WanderingFace you have a handsome face

Quote from: jordmungand on February 21, 2016, 04:44:09 AM
i think asians are more prone to being androgynous? ive been told i'm quite androgynous and that i'm a pretty girl and a handsome man at the same time

This is definitely true. While it's not true for all asians, it is for a much larger amount than, for example, white people. I'm only half asian yet I can easily pass for both male and female, and just like you said, I'm good looking either way (according to other people, anyways). If you look up a Japanese term called "visual kei," you'll see a lot of androgynous looking people in flashy outfits, with a lot of really cute girls mixed in. Until you find out that they're actually all men, and you've been fooled because they're all androgynous looking asians. That being said, (in my opinion,) asians don't necessarily look very androgynous at first glance, but when you put a wig on them and give them some clothes of the opposite sex, you suddenly do notice.

Thanks, Menoimagination. I've gotten that I have a friendly/warm look, but this is the first time I've been called hansom. Made my day and I appreciate the compliment.

Quote from: WanderingFace on March 04, 2016, 01:52:41 PM
The Peter Pan topic was a page or so ago but reminded me of a story my mom recounts now and again. When I was a toddler I was dropped off at daycare. The ladies working there spent the whole time trying to get my name...but I insisted it was Peter Pan. Haha. I was/am a dork.
http://imgur.com/a/DBjkP

On another note...how am I fairing?

doing good

You remind me of Tom Felton and I am unsure why but I looked at your face and thought "he looks a bit like Draco Malfoy.

( I lost hope and i'm depressed ) Just want to know if i still pass

Quote from: jossef-ftm on March 07, 2016, 11:58:05 AM
( I lost hope and i'm depressed ) Just want to know if i still pass

You look like a very handsome man; I wish I looked like you. If you look like this pre T; you're going to be a real lady killer after T

Yeah bro you don't have anything to worry about. T will definitely just bring you over the top. You are already killing it though

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

Jossef - You're looking very masculine. I see only a man in those pictures. Hang in there, brother!

Joseff, I'd say you are passing pretty damn well, I'm also liking your style Very handsome

Well, im waiting for my binder to arrive, but have my face meanwhile:
http://imgur.com/MNQaR5H

Still waiting on T. Sometimes I think I'll shave my little goatee and just let people think I'm a girl so as to avoid any confusion when they hear me speak, but gosh dang it, I love it too much.

http://i.imgur.com/icam1gT.jpg

I want to see how well you think I pass.

I'm pre T and some girls today in the women's walmart bathroom did a double take at me and walked away quickly. I assumed I looked like a butch woman.

Some gay cis men on a dating site just told me I looked more masculine than them.

Don't worry- I'm not scowling at you, this is my neutral expression. I prefer not to smile.

Quote from: Menoimagination on March 07, 2016, 02:01:11 AM
You remind me of Tom Felton and I am unsure why but I looked at your face and thought "he looks a bit like Draco Malfoy.

You are a good looking man.

Quote from: alienbodybuilder on March 25, 2016, 11:05:45 PM
I want to see how well you think I pass.

I'm pre T and some girls today in the women's walmart bathroom did a double take at me and walked away quickly. I assumed I looked like a butch woman.

Some gay cis men on a dating site just told me I looked more masculine than them.

Don't worry- I'm not scowling at you, this is my neutral expression. I prefer not to smile.

I think you pass, but I'd maybe shorten your hair a little bit more and stop any eyebrow maintenance you're doing.