Quote from: KayXo on March 08, 2016, 07:58:22 AM


Perhaps your HRT was inadequate, your doctors too conservative. Or you didn't wait long enough for effects. Or you started out with very masculine features. Or a combination.

Indeed, bones cannot be changed BUT estrogen increases subcutaneous fat which significantly changes how your face and overall body looks, making it look softer, curvier (increased thighs, buttocks) and less angular (i.e. face). I went from passing 100% as male to passing 100% as female in less than a year. Facial hair removal helped but subcutaneous fat increase also helped a lot. I have had no FFS at all and know many who haven't and pass incognito.

Some ignore the importance of resonance (not modified by surgery) and the technique to change so one's voice sounds female. I had no voice surgery and I pass 100% of the time on the phone. I mastered the technique and now, it's become second nature. In person, when I passed as female, even with my normal male voice, I passed! It's true I didn't have a very low male voice either (tenor) but still, goes to show you how if you look female, voice becomes less important.

I do not agree. Two years before I also argued against these surgeries. Now after these surgeries I know that they are lifechanging events. My passing is now perfect even with larger hands, even when speaking in the night or coughing. I do not have to care like every CIS girl. As far as I know you did not had these surgeries. Maybe you underestimate the results?

Like you said bones do not change. I saw very few transgirls who would not benefit. The changes from hrt are coming on top which gave me much more beauty than I ever had. And yes I am pretty sure my hrt is good. I could try out every application form and dosage. And I also take Progesterone. I am now on injections. I had FFS with facial team and they did only bone work.

Ot is very similar with the voice. I am know recognized always as woman. Whatever and whenever I make noises. I could speak in the female range and with the right resonance before. But now my voice sounds 100% and sexy. And I can laugh and cough and I never have to think again about it.

These surgeries provide perfect freedom, peace and passing. Maybe you have to made the experience to understand what I mean. I do not know one girl who regretted their surgery with Kim or Haben or Facial Team or van Dussen (I not know girls in person which had surgery with other MDs). There are only some girls who regretted their FFS or VFS in the web because something went wrong.

I don't think FFS is needed, I can pass without it (although it helps a lot in some cases). Just yesterday I went to a restaurant and I noticed the waitress had a brow bone like mine, and she doesn't cover it with bangs, and her voice is more masculine than mine too, and nobody clocked her. In general I feel like hair, make up and clothes go a long way in helping you pass, and also working on your voice and mannerism is important, I didn't work much on those 2 last things because I didn't need to, but I see some trans women sometimes that do need more work on those, and maybe had ffs already.
Still I do want ffs, but just to ease my dysphoria which is sometimes uncalled or.

Quote from: Lara1969 on March 12, 2016, 02:34:34 PM
I do not agree. Two years before I also argued against these surgeries. Now after these surgeries I know that they are lifechanging events. My passing is now perfect even with larger hands, even when speaking in the night or coughing. I do not have to care like every CIS girl. As far as I know you did not had these surgeries. Maybe you underestimate the results?

You don't agree with the FACT that I pass perfectly and 100% of the time without voice surgery or FFS? And that others as well. Do you doubt of our sincerity? It's like disagreeing that the earth is round. We are proof that some people can pass perfectly without any of these surgeries. People are astounded, speechless when I tell them I was born male. I did not have these surgeries and I have no reason to. Spend tens of thousands of dollars that I don't even have, and risk breaking what is already working well?

QuoteAnd I can laugh and cough and I never have to think again about it.

I will admit that is the only thing that bothers me, that I have to be careful with, that prevents me from being 100% relaxed BUT since surgeries only change pitch and not resonance, I don't see how surgery would help with this. How can I be guaranteed of this without risking damage to my voice which passes perfectly already. Physically, I pass fine, no problems. So no concerns there.

QuoteThere are only some girls who regretted their FFS or VFS in the web because something went wrong.

And what's to say that I won't be one of these girls?? I am aware of Kim and Haben, the latter being quite close to me but honestly, I'm not impressed with most results when I compare my voice to theirs, recovery can also be VERY long, there is risk of scarring with Haben (I don't heal well), there are so many complications that can happen, one has to be careful not to speak or cough the first few weeks or else everything is compromised...the negatives outweigh the positives. Kim is sooooo far and VERY expensive. I also don't want my voice to become weaker as a result of the surgery.

But I wish I could feel more relaxed, like totally free as you say even if my voices passes 100% of the time...know that even if I let my guard down, it wouldn't matter, I think it would help improve quality of life. Ideally, I wish I didn't care! But, I do.

Quote from: Melanie ♡ on March 12, 2016, 02:45:13 PM
Just yesterday I went to a restaurant and I noticed the waitress had a brow bone like mine, and she doesn't cover it with bangs, and her voice is more masculine than mine too, and nobody clocked her.

Excellent points. I also notice this. More physically than in terms of voice as I have rarely seen or heard women who sounded male. A few do indeed have masculine features, brow bone, hairline that is not typically female, no hourglass body shape, very small breasts, etc and pass perfectly well. So, I think our problem lies in the fact that we are very insecure due to the fact that we were born male, raised male and seek femininity to a greater degree to cover this up, compensate for this, help us feel more secure. We need it more given our past. But, in reality, we don't. It's a mental thing.

 
Calm down folks.

Clearly surgery is a personal choice. It is maybe needed by some and maybe not by others. It works well for some and not for others.

You can't argue against a person's personal experience, it is a subjective reality for them and not a "fact" that can be objectively argued about.

Quote from: Ms Grace on March 12, 2016, 04:55:50 PM

Calm down folks.

Clearly surgery is a personal choice. It is maybe needed by some and maybe not by others. It works well for some and not for others.

You can't argue against a person's personal experience, it is a subjective reality for them and not a "fact" that can be objectively argued about.

Hi Grace,

I don't mind her rebuttal. It's fine. But, it's more than my experience. It's fact. Fact is I pass on the phone 100% as female. This is not subjective. They refer to me as madam, miss, etc. I pass in person, it's obvious. Many, many men have flirted with me, peoples' reactions after they learn says everything, peoples' feedback have confirmed I indeed pass 100% and some have even asked if hormones changed my voice, they couldn't believe it! So, clearly, one cannot argue with this. Not my experience, facts.

I don't easily get offended.

Thank you for all of the help everyone. It really means a lot to me.

Maybe it's because I'm overweight

Increased fat usually gives one a more female appearance.

I have to second KayXO about surgeries. While FFS can help a certain group to pass, but it cannot be an absolute solution for everything. I have never had any surgery and I pass everywhere I go. I am not a supermodel and I don't aim to be one. But trust that when I enter a room - no one gives me a double take.  Are some girls blessed with having good genes? - yes Are some girls react better with HRT alone? - yes.

Is FFS, VFS recommended for everyone? NO. I have seen a lot of threads here on Susan - surgeries from the best surgeon in the world and they still get clocked no matter what. I think the biggest benefit of any cosmetic surgery is confidence which then translates to better passing. I have accepted the fact that even If I shave my face to a size of a tomato someone will know and can tell I am trans and do I care - NO.

Estradiol has only one effect. The loss of money.

It is a sad fact of life really. Hrt is fickle and can really be a luck of the draw. It is also influenced by many factors i.e genetics, age). Regardless you will always be a beautiful woman inside and out. It hurts to be mispronounced I know but sometimes you just have to get past that and focus on the more positive aspects of how you've changed since transitioning.

Paige, I'm looking forward to your reply on my picture because you seem to be really level-headed and give great advice. Thank you very much and thank you everyone else.

Quote from: blossom on March 25, 2016, 04:31:22 PM
Paige, I'm looking forward to your reply on my picture because you seem to be really level-headed and give great advice. Thank you very much and thank you everyone else.

Thankyou Blossom that means a lot 

Paige, did you get FFS?

Quote from: blossom on March 26, 2016, 03:19:11 PM
Paige, did you get FFS?

Not yet I'm still saving up but plan on it around next year. It's my last hurdle   

Was that you in your old profile picture with the reddish hair? If so, you look like a model and I don't see how you could need FFS. Why do you think differently?

Quote from: blossom on March 26, 2016, 04:01:54 PM
Was that you in your old profile picture with the reddish hair? If so, you look like a model and I don't see how you could need FFS. Why do you think differently?

Lol I'm certainly not model material but thank you all the same . Yeah that's me. Well granted I've never had any issues passing but I do have a bit of brow bossing I'd like to fix up and abit of a chin reduction as I feel it gives me a longish face but like they say you are your own worst critic.

Paige, is that you sitting in the window of your profile picture?

Of course.  I was on a cruise ship with some friends in Feb, it was amazing

Paige, I am struggling to lose weight. I've been eating only tiny amounts of food, almost anorexic, if not anorexic,  and have started to see some weight loss. How can I get a figure like yours in that profile picture? I want to wear tops like that too