Last night was our first joint therapy session. After the therapist suggested a joint session, he looked uncomfortable and asked for a 1:1 first. I was a little hurt, but whatever. The session probably revealed a lot more about our private lives than I would have preferred as I know I went on the defensive after feeling ambushed, so I let it all out with no holds barred. At the end of it, I was expecting some 1:1 time of my own, but the therapist summarily announced we were done for the evening. That sort of made me feel like my time with her is less important and makes me question why I'm trying to work this out in therapy.

Anyway, a lot of things were brought to light that I've been holding back, so in a way that's good even though I know he didn't particularly want to hear them. It just reiterates to me that I need to keep more to myself for the greater good - if anyone ever knew what I was truly thinking at any minute, on any given day... well, it just wouldn't be nice for all involved. We did continue talking on the drive home and he keeps reiterating to me that I should be able to differentiate between gender and sexuality because he can. Seems that's much easier for most transgenders than it is for the vast majority of us because I truly can't - for me they're very much intertwined.

At the end of the night, I said I would keep my next two scheduled sessions with the therapist, but that I won't be scheduling anymore after that. She had told us last night that she wants to do individual sessions next time, and then another joint after that. At that point, I'll just join his when asked, and go back to journaling my thoughts and feelings privately. That seems safer to me.

maybe you should look into getting your own therapist and just doing the joint one's

I again need to say that I've never been married and I haven't had a relationship with anyone since the Neanderthal's were still eating Mastodon steaks so a shovel of salt is needed. You have an equal right to be heard. I know some will vehemently disagree with my advocacy for the view point of the wife , but I just feel that shutting out the wife's view is so utterly wrong. Therapy and objectivity seem to be very important in viewing this situation. I suspect for myself  that I've never been able to form  or even seek out a relationship because of transgender issues. It's a very difficult problem that I feel both partners need to see each others viewpoint honestly and openly.

He's compromising, too. It's just not a very fun situation for anyone involved. And it seems that regardless of intentions, someones always getting hurt at every turn.

As for getting a therapist of my own, I don't think so. I'm not bringing anyone else into this mess. I'll figure it out on my own - it's worked for me up until now, it will get me through the next 20 or 30 years (hopefully not more than that, because good grief, I don't want to live to see 80), I'm sure.

Also, going forward, I think I should post a lot less to the forum.

whatever lets you feel right.

I feel for you PrincessButtercup, I truly do. I wish i had some words of wisdom to help you, but I know nothing really helps. I just hope you hang in there, and it gets a little easier for you every day. <3

Quote from: LostHeart on March 14, 2016, 05:43:46 PM
I feel for you PrincessButtercup, I truly do. I wish i had some words of wisdom to help you, but I know nothing really helps. I just hope you hang in there, and it gets a little easier for you every day. <3

Oh, I'm not going anywhere and neither is he. We'll get through this like we do everything else - together.

Quote from: PrincessButtercup on March 14, 2016, 05:51:03 PM
Oh, I'm not going anywhere and neither is he. We'll get through this like we do everything else - together.

I'm really glad to hear that.

Quote from: PrincessButtercup on March 14, 2016, 05:51:03 PM
Oh, I'm not going anywhere and neither is he. We'll get through this like we do everything else - together.

Yay:)
I have very much enjoyed talking to you, on and off the forum:)
I have my fingers and toes crossed for you and your husband xxx


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Significant other
Heterosexual woman

I commend your efforts at being understanding. I can't imagine how hard your position must be...

Judging from your posts, there's a lot you aren't ready for, or comfortable with... I hope that you've never felt like you're "supposed" to be comfortable with certain things just to make someone else happy. I don't think that could ever work...

Your husband's gender issues are his own... You choose to support him, but please watch over your own emotional well-being, don't let it get to the point where his issues take control of your life... I know, it's easy for me to talk...
I've never gone through what you're going through, but I've been tormented by emotional grief before. If you're ever at a point where this is all you can think about and it's making you angry, try to distance your mind from it. Escapism, literally... Find something that lets you direct your thoughts away from it. It might seem like the end of the world, but it's really not... It's awful to be stuck "mourning" over the "loss" of something, but instead of dwelling on that, try to take time for yourself, get some distance between you and the problem.

I don't know the extent of your husband's gender issues, but, they're apparently serious enough to affect your marriage... from what I know and experienced, most people with intense gender dysphoria will not be satisfied unless they fully transition, they'll grow increasingly unhappy and resent the world.
He says he doesn't want to feminize himself or start any hormone treatments, but, does he want to feel like a woman? In what kind of setting? Unless this is some sort of sexual fetish for him, I'm skeptical about the thought of a more feminine appearance not crossing his mind. If he has the need to see himself as a woman sometimes, I find it hard to believe that his mental portrayal of that woman wears a dress while sporting a five-o-clock shadow.
No woman fantasizes about being burly or looking weird...

When I took my first steps at transitioning, it was much easier to convey to people that I was androgynous, than to tell them that I really could only function and be socially comfortable as a girl. Specially to people that had known me for a long-time, there was an element of shame around it, a fear of being a disappointment, having my feelings hurt by others' opinions, etc.

If you're not remotely flexible in your sexual orientation, then please, for your sake, try to always be aware of what's going on in his head as this situation progresses, to make sure that he withholds nothing. It's probably hard for him to be open, specially to someone that he loves and fears rejection from. I told my parents the "don't worry, I don't want boobs" line plenty of times. I did it because they were never reasonable with me, if they expressed contempt towards me owning a skirt, they obviously wouldn't be thrilled by the idea of me having to wear a bra...
I did the smart thing for me, I omitted what would make them uncomfortable and slowly pushed their boundaries until I got what I wanted. One day it was the clothes, the other day it was the hair... suddenly there was nothing weird about me having breasts anymore.

If you are unsure about what his milestones are, I think you should ask him in a situation where he feels comfortable opening up about his feelings. Being cool, showing no hints of being upset, displaying empathy... I think those promote complete honesty...

I hope I'm not alarming you, I'm just trying to suggest that hoping for the best while being ready for the worst is a good defense mechanism, it'll shield you from the possibility of feeling disappointed again.
It's quite possible that he just wants to be androgynous and finds his inner peace there. There's girly girls, there's tomboys, there's manly boys and femboys... Gender seems to be a spectrum, it doesn't deal with just two polar extremes, so, gender dysphoria doesn't really imply a need to be on either one end or the other...

Just be aware that his feelings and goals might also change overtime. I think the tendency would be for him to be more comfortable exposing them to you.
In the end, he has a problem that he's trying to find an answer to, and, sadly you were dragged into it. I'm hoping that you can always be honest with yourself, regarding what you're sure to be okay with and what you might not like... I'm sure the situation will get easier overtime, as long as you assess if this relationship will fulfill you in the future, and if his direction in life makes him happier.

I wish you both the best, you undoubtedly care about each other a lot =)

Quote from: Mermaid on March 23, 2016, 03:10:52 AM
Judging from your posts, there's a lot you aren't ready for, or comfortable with... I hope that you've never felt like you're "supposed" to be comfortable with certain things just to make someone else happy. I don't think that could ever work...

No worries there. I've indicated multiple times what I am comfortable with and what I can tolerate - I've never once waivered, so there is no mixed signals coming from me. I said yes to crossdressing on occasion, I said yes to no body hair, I said yes to feminine hygeine products. I said no to any surgeries or hormones that alter his body. I'm not into women. The thought of being with one positively disgusts me. That's been my stance for the past 2 months and it's not going to change in the next 40  years.

Quote from: Mermaid on March 23, 2016, 03:10:52 AM
Your husband's gender issues are his own...

They are indeed his own and as I informed his gender therapist last night, I'm no longer giving them any dominion over my happiness. I can't fix his issues and I can't let them control my day-to-day life. I need to get back to living my life and not hiding from it and everyone in it.

Quote from: Mermaid on March 23, 2016, 03:10:52 AM
I don't know the extent of your husband's gender issues, but, they're apparently serious enough to affect your marriage... from what I know and experienced, most people with intense gender dysphoria will not be satisfied unless they fully transition, they'll grow increasingly unhappy and resent the world.

He says he feels neither male nor female, but a bit of both. I would put him in non-binary, a term his therapist was completely unfamiliar with - I suspect she may not be the right person for the job.

Quote from: Mermaid on March 23, 2016, 03:10:52 AM
If you're not remotely flexible in your sexual orientation, then please, for your sake, try to always be aware of what's going on in his head as this situation progresses, to make sure that he withholds nothing. It's probably hard for him to be open, specially to someone that he loves and fears rejection from. I told my parents the "don't worry, I don't want boobs" line plenty of times. I did it because they were never reasonable with me, if they expressed contempt towards me owning a skirt, they obviously wouldn't be thrilled by the idea of me having to wear a bra...
I did the smart thing for me, I omitted what would make them uncomfortable and slowly pushed their boundaries until I got what I wanted. One day it was the clothes, the other day it was the hair... suddenly there was nothing weird about me having breasts anymore.

Funny you mention slowly pushing the boundaries and introducing things over a period of time - that's exactly what his therapist told me last night that she suggested to him - that he slowly push me to be where he wants me to be. I literally laughed in her face because if anyone thinks I'm that malleable they're quite delusional and more than a bit crazy. It's not going to happen and even she admits after only talking to me 3 times, that she knows I'm not that type of person and it will never work on me. I know myself, I know what I like, I know what I want from life. I gave up plenty (things I'm not delving into here) in the beginning of this relationship just to be with him. Things that were a key part of my life enjoyment. It was a compromise I chose to make because it's things he's not comfortable with. Now it's his turn to compromise.

Quote from: Mermaid on March 23, 2016, 03:10:52 AM
If you are unsure about what his milestones are, I think you should ask him in a situation where he feels comfortable opening up about his feelings.

He has no idea what his milestones are, just that he's not going to transition to a woman because it's not what he wants/needs. He's still trying to come to terms with all this in his head. I have asked him, he simply doesn't know.

Quote from: Mermaid on March 23, 2016, 03:10:52 AM
I hope I'm not alarming you, I'm just trying to suggest that hoping for the best while being ready for the worst is a good defense mechanism, it'll shield you from the possibility of feeling disappointed again.
It's quite possible that he just wants to be androgynous and finds his inner peace there. There's girly girls, there's tomboys, there's manly boys and femboys... Gender seems to be a spectrum, it doesn't deal with just two polar extremes, so, gender dysphoria doesn't really imply a need to be on either one end or the other...

I'm beyond getting alarmed. I've moved to tolerance. It is what it is. I hope we can stay together, but I'm to the point that if we can't both ultimately be moderately happy, then I've prepared myself mentally for that as well. It will suck for both of us, but so would making each other miserable or one resenting the other. He says his primary goal is to keep our marriage intact and that's my goal as well. Hence, we both compromise a little on some things and a lot on others.

Quote from: Mermaid on March 23, 2016, 03:10:52 AM
Just be aware that his feelings and goals might also change overtime. I think the tendency would be for him to be more comfortable exposing them to you.
In the end, he has a problem that he's trying to find an answer to, and, sadly you were dragged into it. I'm hoping that you can always be honest with yourself, regarding what you're sure to be okay with and what you might not like... I'm sure the situation will get easier overtime, as long as you assess if this relationship will fulfill you in the future, and if his direction in life makes him happier.

I wish you both the best, you undoubtedly care about each other a lot =)

His feelings and goals may very well change over time. Mine will not. That's the great thing about taking the time to know yourself at the deepest level, you know what you want, what you won't accept, and you get to make unalterable statements like this - if in 5 years he gets to the point that he has to transition, well then, I guess he'll be down a spouse, but eventually have a friend. Hopefully it never comes to that, but nobody knows the future whether they're trans of not. If I could know that, I'd be holding a winning lottery ticket every week.

As for getting easier over time, does it really get easier for the spouse or do we just learn to tolerate it better, to not let it be the focal point of everything? I'm not sure which is the actual answer as I'm sure it differs from couple to couple, person to person. I'm not sure I'll ever think this is easy and it's certainly not something I'm going to look back on in years and have a chuckle over. It sucks. It just royally sucks. It sucks for the spouse, it sucks for the transgender people - it just sucks. If I could abolish ->-bleeped-<- from the world, I would. If there was a miracle drug that people could be given at birth to prevent it, I'd be 100% behind it. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy and I have a few people I absolutely despise.

here is an interesting news story that may or may not put things into perspective from your husbands point of view

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,206603.0.html

Quote from: stephaniec on March 23, 2016, 10:11:19 AM
here is an interesting news story that may or may not put things into perspective from your husbands point of view

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,206603.0.html

It doesn't, but thanks for trying.

I've resigned myself to tolerance. That's my goal - tolerating what I've agreed to.

Thursday of last week I decided during a morning yoga class that I wanted to get a mani-pedi after work. I asked my husband if he wanted to get one too. He did. It was only his second pedicure and the first since coming out to me. The first one he new he was trans, but hadn't told me yet, so he only got clear polish. This time he went for bright colors for each. It didn't bother me, though I can't say I agree with the bright yellow-green, but it's his choice and he wanted to have fun with it and that's okay.

Later that same day we were talking and he said the prior month he told his youngest about his condition. I was shocked and embarrassed at the same time. I'm mortified she's going to get angry with one of us and use it as punishment by telling family members that we don't want to know. Can't really change that now, so we'll deal with it when it comes.

We also talked about his dysphoria and how it only occasionally rears its ugly head - that he definitely considers himself genderfluid and it's only occasionally that he feels female. Still working on identifying what triggers that, or at least I'm still trying to decipher what to put on the list. I must admit, finally hearing him iterate what I've known all along was a great relief.

And so we journey on to another day...

Up, down, round and round... this ride makes me nauseous. I really want my old, boring, life back. It was comfortable like a pair of well worn jeans.

hopefully a safe passage

Quote from: stephaniec on April 12, 2016, 09:56:22 AM
hopefully a safe passage

One can only hope. It was a long night of heated discussion going far to late into the morning hours. Today I feel like a sad, exhausted zombie. That's sort of become my new norm, I guess.

Oh well, the days are getting warmer - soon enough I'll be able to disappear for hours at time on my beloved motorcycle. At least there my mind is quiet - or as quiet as it can be with loud music blasting in my helmet.

Today marks 3 months since he came out to me, or as I say, purgatory began. Either I'm getting better at ignoring it all, or things have quieted down around here because it doesn't bother me as much as it once did. It no longer permeates every waking moment of every day. That's an improvement. I still wish it didn't exist, but I can't change the fact that it does. All I can control is how much I allow it to affect my day to day life, and for that I'm choosing not at all.

And life goes on...

Quote from: PrincessButtercup on April 21, 2016, 05:17:10 PM
Today marks 3 months since he came out to me, or as I say, purgatory began. Either I'm getting better at ignoring it all, or things have quieted down around here because it doesn't bother me as much as it once did. It no longer permeates every waking moment of every day. That's an improvement. I still wish it didn't exist, but I can't change the fact that it does. All I can control is how much I allow it to affect my day to day life, and for that I'm choosing not at all.

And life goes on...

That's s really positive attitude:)

Quote from: jamiej on April 21, 2016, 06:23:59 PM
That's s really positive attitude:)

Yes, except I am failing miserably at letting it not control me. In fact I've slightly slipped back into hostile and angry. Not as much as before, but I'd still like to obliterate trans anything from my world and put it all back to normal.