I know I should ask my doctor, however I was too freaked out when I had my appt to ask and I was unaware of some of the effects at the time. I also cant afford to make a new appt and drive over a hour one way just too chit chat about this. I may be able to write her, but I remember last time I tried, it didnt seem to send through mychart.

I started E 2 days ago and also got Spiro, for my own concerns, I felt I should take e first and wait a week just to monitor myself and my reactions. My Spiro dose was "double the standard because I am a larger person" that was what she said she wanted to start me at.

Now, I understand that alot of peeing will happen and I have heard of people fainting from dehydration and or low blood pressure. The BP and fainting/tiredness are things I really dont feel comfortable with. I tend to be active and do alot of dancing to try and lose weight and keep healthy. I was diagnosed with near perfect health and only a slightly high A1C which is most likely dropping, not rising... due to my exercise. My current BP has been a solid 130 over 80.

I guess Im just concerned and looking for what others have seen and or ways to alleviate or lessen the side effects. I do want the benefits of Spiro... but am concerned

Thanks for any info you can share

I have never used the drug but the warnings I know of are drink plenty of water, you need more salt so if you crave salt, use more. The last item is potassium and because your body will retain it, restrict your intake of it. Potatoes, oranges and bananas are the most common source but other not so common foods also have a fair amount of potassium. Also don't use salt substitute because it's mostly potassium chloride.

Being on E made my BP rise slightly and Spiro took it back to perfect.

Yes, it makes you pee more but not excessively (not for me anyway) however you should still make sure you stay hydrated. My doc suggested taking it after breakfast to reduce the number of nighttime bathroom trips that would happen if I took it before bed.

Thank you both, good things to know

Since Spiro is used to control High BP......

Dehydration and craving all things salty is a side effect. Many in my group report an "All things Pickled" fetish developed to which I also raised my hand. You do need to watch your Potassium intake since spiro likes to make the body hang on to it. Too much Potassium and your heart beat is effected in very bad way, as in can stop. 

Otherwise, it is a fairly benign medication as medications go.  E probably has more bad complications like DVT, or other blood clotting issues, or Liver shut-downs as well as... essentially making your a bit crazy at times  , in a good way

I've been on Spiro since 93 for heart disease, I take it for Congestive Heart Failure. Spiro in heart terms is a diuretic that helps reduce water build up in the pericardium.  Two of the side effects besides maybe one extra pee a day is ED. I used to be moved by a strong breeze, now he is deader than Kelsy's nutmeg. I also developed small boobs. Not big ones mind you but noticeable under a T shirt. As I've lost close to 100 lbs it is much more visible. The other side affect is occasionally burning nips that feel like they are on fire. This is a rare occurrence for me but it is somewhat painful when it does happen. I remember the first time it happened and the Doctor suggested it was the Spiro. For me it is a double edge sword, in that if I drink too much water it goes to my heart and if I don't I get weak and dizzy. I am also on feurosimide which is another diuretic called lasix. Now that makes you pee like a race horse.

Mod Edit:Dosage

Quote from: JoanneB on April 01, 2016, 06:19:58 PM
E probably has more bad complications like DVT, or other blood clotting issues, or Liver shut-downs as well as...

It's important to differentiate between certain forms of non-bio-identical estrogens which have been historically been associated with DVT and liver problems (perhaps) but if she is taking bio-identical estrogen, the risk is quite small as in studies on transsexual women taking moderate to high dose oral E, complications rarely arose (always in association with genetic predisposition/mutation or smoking/obesity), other studies clearly showed Premarin and ethinyl estradiol to be more thrombogenic than oral E which in some cases, didn't even have an effect on clotting. As far as liver goes, E has actually shown to be beneficial in some respects (i.e. fatty liver) and this study...

Hepatol Res. 2007 Apr;37(4):239-47.
Protection of estrogens against the progression of chronic liver disease.

"Hepatic steatosis was reported to become evident in an aromatase-deficient mouse and was diminished in animals after treatment with estradiol. Our previous studies showed that estradiol suppressed hepatic fibrosis in animal models, and attenuated HSC activation by suppressing the generation of reactive oxygen species in primary cultures."

Non-oral E, even in higher doses given to men of an advanced age (up to 91 yrs old) has shown to have negligible impact on hepatic parameters. And even protect against the risk of thrombosis.

J Urol. 2005 Aug;174(2):527-33; discussion 532-3.
Transdermal estradiol therapy for prostate cancer reduces
thrombophilic activation and protects against thromboembolism.

"These results suggest that transdermal estradiol reduces
thrombophilic activation in men with advanced prostate cancer, and
protects against the risk of thrombosis."

Prostate 1989;14(4):389-95
Estrogen therapy and liver function--metabolic effects of oral and parenteral
administration.

"parenteral administration of native estradiol
has very little influence on these aspects of liver function."

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1991 Aug;73(2):275-80.

"despite the relatively high doses necessary to mimic a hormonally normal cycle, the transdermal route did not significantly alter the hepatic parameters studied, suggesting that this route of administration may have less adverse hepatic effects."

Biochem Pharmacol. 2013 Dec 15;86(12):1627-42.
Estrogen, vascular estrogen receptor and hormone therapy in postmenopausal vascular disease.

"There was no increase in VTE risk with the use of transdermal estrogen, even in patients with pre-existing thrombophilia [15]."

Pregnant women also have very high levels, up to 75,000 pg/ml. Despite this, risk of clotting is extremely low, around 0.05-0.2%. And increases after pregnancy, when levels drop.

Ann Intern Med. 2005 Nov 15;143(10):697-706.

"Among pregnant women, the highest risk period for venous thromboembolism and pulmonary embolism in particular is during the postpartum period."


I actually consider bio-identical E to be safer than spironolactone. Half the world population has been on it for millions of years, they don't seem to be dying at a higher rate and even have a longer life expectancy than men.

Quote from: DawnOday on April 01, 2016, 06:41:44 PM
I've been on Spiro since 93 for heart disease, I take it for Congestive Heart Failure. Spiro in heart terms is a diuretic that helps reduce water build up in the pericardium.

Water retention is also increased by insulin and furthermore by carb consumption as this stimulates the release of insulin. Eating less carbs has a potent diuretic effect.

Diabetes March 1990 vol. 39 no. 3 289-298

"Because insulin shows an antinatriuretic effect in healthy humans, insulin therapy resulting in circulating hyperinsulinemia may lead to sodium retention and in turn to hypertension in individuals with insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus (IDDM)."

September 1981, Volume 21, Issue 3, pp 165-171

"The primary action of insulin on sodium balance is exerted on the kidney. Increases in plasma insulin concentration within the physiological range stimulate sodium reabsorption by the distal nephron segments and this effect is independent of changes in circulating metabolites or other hormones."

Individuals going low carb often find they don't need to take their blood pressure medications anymore. Pharmaceutical companies don't like too many of us knowing this, hehe. Now, you know.

Don't worry too much about the dizziness, those who do experience it say it last only a short time after they take it.

At first I didn't noticed the bathroom issues but around the time when the salt cravings started it really hit me which is to be expected. Now I rarely sleep more than 3 hours without getting up to pee. But it's a small price to pay and the side effects will go away once I no longer need to take spiro.

Serena

Unfortunately, I am one of the few that did not get lucky with Spiro. First, it made me pee a lot like almost every hour. Second, it made me want to create a mound of salt in my backyard because I am craving it all the time hence I have 5 bottles of pickles in my fridge. Lastly, it made me sweat like a pig even if it's - 20 c outside - disgusting!

Also, my kidney function was impacted hence I had to switch to CPA which in my personal experience has been a better alternative.

However, we have different bodies and we react differently to each meds. Good luck!

When I doubled my spiro dose I felt off for about six weeks and then my body adjusted.  As long as you don't let yourself get dehydrated it will not interfere in your high activity level.


Sapere Aude

Thank you all for the replies

Quote from: JoanneB on April 01, 2016, 06:19:58 PM
Since Spiro is used to control High BP......

Dehydration and craving all things salty is a side effect. Many in my group report an "All things Pickled" fetish developed to which I also raised my hand.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I consumed a jar of dill pickles in less than a day earlier this week. I've been on Spiro for over two years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk