So strong I can barely function, can barely focus on something else? So strong I feel very disgusted with myself? I can barely think about other things. I should be very busy these days with college, focusing on studying, but everything just feels horrible. I can't take it anymore!

Have you thought about hobbies that aren't related to your studies? Something achievable and disposable but absorbing, like crafts? Sometimes I paint sheets of paper in block colours/ glitter paint, because i like the colours but it doesn't require any actual effort or real focus, so there's no way i can't achieve the goal. does that make sense?

I've heard about people using white noise generators to soothe themselves, or simple puzzles too, things that are distracting in the way that studying is but not important to you enough to cause stress

I've actually reached a point where I'm taking a break from college, and I'm hoping the ease of the stress load will help me relax in all areas, including dysphoria.

I like to color and doodle, usually with music playing in the background.  Most of my dysphoria comes from my chest, so I also like to lie down and play a handheld videogame, holding the videogame up and looking up at it so I don't have to see my chest, but I can see my legs stretched out if I look down a bit (I like my legs; they're the least dysphoric part of me).  I also like to take walks when I'm feeling out of it.  Sometimes getting out of the house and finding something new to distract yourself with can be a good thing.

Hey Jossam.

I can relate.
For me it gets so extreme at times that focusing on hobbies doesn´t help.

If you can do sports without getting extremely dysphoric, I suggest something active. Yoga, running or something else. Seems counterintuitive but if you can focus on your body as being your way to let out stress and frustration, and making it stronger, while trying to take away focus from specific areas.

Ignore is another strategy but you´d have to build the "ignore mode" slowly. It´s a decision to allow the dysphoria but not identificate with it. Like it´s there, knowing that it´s there, but not reacting to it. Might help to see the dysphoria as a temporary condition that will go away as you start to change.

If nothing at all helps and it gives you high anxiety you can consult with a therapist, maybe they can help you, or discuss anxiety medication.

Life's pressures often make it impossible and impractical for me to dress as my female self.

When those times occur, I often find solace in going for a jog after sunset dressed in female running clothes, to include forms.  I do shave, but no makeup and no wig.  It puts me on the edge and helps my disphoria a bit.

I also will use my attachable forms and sleep in female PJs.

Have to just find the time in the day (or night) to express myself.

Well I have hobbies. I play music and read books I like.
Sports? I go to the gym to get more muscular and stronger. But seeing how I don't bulk up because of female range levels of T can make me more dysphoric. However, seeing how strong I am, as much as or even more than some cis men at the gym helps build my confidence. The problem is I am pretty strong considering I am pre T, but my muscle mass doesn't grow as much as my strength does.
I have a muscular body but not bulky, something only T can do. So it still makes me feel ->-bleeped-<-ty. I am also pretty thin in general.

Sometimes I wonder why bother with gym if I can't actually get significantly bigger pre T?
Then I think....first, it helps with strength and mental well being, second, building muscles pre T I think still provides me with a good start for when I will finally be on T. Third, it helps me be healthier in general.

If there are any guys here who are on T and also bodybuilders it would help to hear how things changed for you after T.

I heard transitioning guys saying T made them gain more muscle mass even without doing any physical activity, which isn't surprising and it's a normal effect of going from female range T to male range T, so I am wondering what it will do to guys who started lifting pre T and already have some muscles.

I was just at the gym today and there was this really cut guy all over the place, it really messed with my gym zen lol

We can build at least some bulk pre T, because there are cis female body builders, but obvs they'll use supplements and work out a lot. I started looking at female bodybuilding tips in case there was anything afab people can do that's different, but it didn't do much for the dysphoria tbh

Quote from: Peep on March 17, 2016, 04:40:38 PM
I was just at the gym today and there was this really cut guy all over the place, it really messed with my gym zen lol

We can build at least some bulk pre T, because there are cis female body builders, but obvs they'll use supplements and work out a lot. I started looking at female bodybuilding tips in case there was anything afab people can do that's different, but it didn't do much for the dysphoria tbh

I know some bulking up is possible with female level testosterone, but I can see a big difference between cis men and cis women bodybuilders, or trans men before T and their muscles after some time on T.

There are huge cis female bodybuilders but in order to be as huge as male bodybuilders they take steroids (just like many cis male bodybuilders do). Not good. I don't think I need to explain why abusing steroids and stuff like that is bad.

Then there's natural bodybuilding....and I see a lot of difference between natural female bodybuilders and natural male bodybuilders.

In short....bulking up a little is definitely possible pre T in a natural way, but it can't be as much as someone on T or who is a cis man.
I can eat a lot and get a lot of proteins (even using protein shakes) but my hormone levels right now are limiting me. So I have visible muscles but I don't look big.

If I look at female bodybuilding tips I just feel worse because it reminds me of my current body and its limits. I might also encounter cissexist language which can make me feel worse. Similarly, male bodybuilding tips remind me of the fact I am not like that yet so I can't achieve certain goals now.

The only thing that doesn't make me dysphoric is strength. I am pretty happy with my current strength. I see guys bigger and taller than me who lift as much as I do or even less, and it's satisfying to me. Sure my strength would grow faster on T but I can't be unhappy with it. I remember I have always had a good natural strength. I guess I have good genes for that. Sure I want to improve it because it's not like I am extremely strong yet. Just pretty strong for my size (and hormones)....and considering I have stomach issue that often prevent me from eating a lot and interrupt my training.

Quote from: jossam on March 17, 2016, 06:38:33 PM
I know some bulking up is possible with female level testosterone, but I can see a big difference between cis men and cis women bodybuilders, or trans men before T and their muscles after some time on T.

There are huge cis female bodybuilders but in order to be as huge as male bodybuilders they take steroids (just like many cis male bodybuilders do). Not good. I don't think I need to explain why abusing steroids and stuff like that is bad.

Then there's natural bodybuilding....and I see a lot of difference between natural female bodybuilders and natural male bodybuilders.

In short....bulking up a little is definitely possible pre T in a natural way, but it can't be as much as someone on T or who is a cis man.
I can eat a lot and get a lot of proteins (even using protein shakes) but my hormone levels right now are limiting me. So I have visible muscles but I don't look big.

If I look at female bodybuilding tips I just feel worse because it reminds me of my current body and its limits. I might also encounter cissexist language which can make me feel worse. Similarly, male bodybuilding tips remind me of the fact I am not like that yet so I can't achieve certain goals now.

The only thing that doesn't make me dysphoric is strength. I am pretty happy with my current strength. I see guys bigger and taller than me who lift as much as I do or even less, and it's satisfying to me. Sure my strength would grow faster on T but I can't be unhappy with it. I remember I have always had a good natural strength. I guess I have good genes for that. Sure I want to improve it because it's not like I am extremely strong yet. Just pretty strong for my size (and hormones)....and considering I have stomach issue that often prevent me from eating a lot and interrupt my training.

Hi, Jossam,
I need to comment a little...
Steroid use, first off, is not necessarily abuse. (Unless of course, you LIKE a police state telling you what you can and cannot do with your body...? Isn't that the argument of the Pro-choice side, really, that women can decide what they do with their body? So why not others, too? ) /rant
I mention this because - DING! you sound FTM, which means you'll be taking THOSE SAME DRUGS. 

Besides that...  I'd ask if you've been working out with Powerbuilding, Bodybuilding, or strength training techniques. Using whey protein just after a workout? Working out morning or evening? And, for example, what's your preferred fitness site? [E.G., Bodybuilding.com; t-Nation.com; Chaos And Pain; Marks Daily Apple (tossed in to make a point.)]

I'm MTF, I still "worship" at the temple of steel. right now, I'm just making sure I manage/reduce weight, and establish a better foundation for posture, which means a better body when (if) I get back on hormones. (BTW, "steroid" = sex hormone... including Insulin, IGF-1, and estrogen.)

You might want to have some of those checked, BTW, and double-check your exercise selection, rest period, lifting tempo, sets & reps, and max weight. While it's true women can't bulk like men, I've seen plenty of "pretty young things" in the gym who were beasts, both in size and strength. Because of past events, I HATE seeing some young lady walk up to the weights and outperform me...  Especially since I'm genetically male, and "not small."

So, a few thoughts/suggestions:
1. Meal type and timing. Make sure it's optimal. Make sure it provides the right type of nutrition for the right type of energy. I'd suggest high protein, mid fat, low carb, offhand - refine by your ancestry and experimentation, use the dietary guidelines that apply (E.G., carbs after a heavy workout = more muscle growth via sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, IIRC, where glycogen gets stored in muscle. Also spikes IGF-1, IIRC, which causes hypertrophy.)
2. Right lifting. Lift HEAVY. The more, the better. And add in tougher and tougher methods, like mechanical drop sets.
3. Squats. No, really, Boosts HGH, means bigger body. Go nuts. Preferred method would be heavy low-bar squats. Complement with lots of soft-tissue work, E.G. Agile 8 warmup. (I did 5X5 for a while; you could've broken a baseball bat on my thigh, basically, it would be like hitting a stone. Agile 8 resolved that, and is still resolving it.)
4. Google an article from Trans-Health, "Training for visual mass." You'll want to build the shoulders and back: Traps, Lats, Rhomboids, Deltoids. You'll LOOK bigger. It's a cheap psychological trick, but it'll work - and working the posterior chain is almost always a great idea. This might give you the appearance you want, think Hugh Jackman as Wolverine.
5. Chase the Pump. Lighter weights here, accessory lifts, probably the "beach muscles." Position them after the big lifts (olympic preferred), and just pump away.
6. Supplements! Whey protein after workout, with some carbs. Carbs to end catabolism from the workout, protein to quickly rebuild the muscles (Hence, Whey, not Cassein, say. Fast absorption.)  Maybe a NOX supplement, boost the nitrogen content (Nitric Oxide). More Zinc, boosts testosterone. AVOID spearmint and peppermint, too - they pull Free T out of the blood. Google how to reduce your SHBG (Sex Hormone binding globulin) using diet. DHEA supplements, creatine supplements. (all in no particular order.)
One big deal here, though, is - people think they're eating "SO MUCH!" - and often not eating as much as they think or eating lousy stuff - E.G., starbucks or candy after a workout is BAD, it spikes insulin and then you push the body to fat storage. Eat protein instead and a baked potato, slower absorption and better nutrition. If you have that Starbucks liquid candy bar first, it's ALL going to be fat, and won't be deposited into the muscles as anything (Protein synthesis as well as glycogen storage = zero.)

So, review your workout plan, make sure you're going hell bent for leather, and not making mistakes...  And pump up the HGH with squats...  And then be patient and keep going.  :-)

You'll be rockin' it soon enough. Remember that looking forward, it's "SO MUCH WORK / SO LONG TO WAIT..." but after? "Oh, THAT WAS EASY!"

-Dianna

Quote from: jossam on March 17, 2016, 06:38:33 PM
[...]
The only thing that doesn't make me dysphoric is strength. I am pretty happy with my current strength. I see guys bigger and taller than me who lift as much as I do or even less, and it's satisfying to me. Sure my strength would grow faster on T but I can't be unhappy with it. I remember I have always had a good natural strength. I guess I have good genes for that. Sure I want to improve it because it's not like I am extremely strong yet. Just pretty strong for my size (and hormones)....and considering I have stomach issue that often prevent me from eating a lot and interrupt my training.

Jossam,
Missed this...
I hear you about the strength not making you dysphoric. I was assaulted, even as an MTF, I LOVE being strong. Stronger than the guys? EXCELLENT!

But a note on training, again: Sometimes those lighter weights are used for a reason. I'm doing a posture correcting routine right now. Much more control...  MUCH MUCH lower weights. E.G., 20# instead of 240#, say.
I fell like a (censored), but I'm getting the benefits... 
So remember the Desiderata, and don't compare yourself to others too much. You're on your own journey, set your own parameters, and you'll arrive when you decide.
If you compared yourself to me, for example, you might get a NASTY surprise....  Like the last guy who challenged me to a lift-off in Bench Press. He did his max, jokingly "threatened" me to not pick a fight with him. So, I started at his max...  Did 20 reps. Added 35s....  Did 20 reps....  Added more 35s....  Did 10...  Added 20#, I think, managed 8. He said,  "Yeah, I'll make sure NOT to pick a fight with you..."    ;-) 

 

-Dianna

I got whey proteins after workout + carbs as my trainer told me. I focus on the upper body...shoulders, arms, lats. I train the lower body too but not as much because I want a bigger upper body. Hoping T will help with this too.

I know testosterone is a steroid too. But one thing is to get T for transitioning, getting monitored by doctors, keeping levels at a normal male range....and a different thing is to use stuff for gym at very high doses, above normal ranges, and that's abuse. It's still a different story. I obviously think anyone should do whatever they want with their body, as long as they keep it healthy.

Bodybuildig here, so I focus on muscle mass. I might do some strength training at some point.

I work out in the evening after my afternoon snack and before dinner (or other snack post work out + dinner).
I don't really have a favorite site, I just read from various places.

I will be honest here. I don't think you should feel embarrassed about someone being stronger than you. There will always be someone who is stronger than us. There are many factors that contribute to strength. I don't think there is anything wrong with someone being stronger than someone else.
It's human variety.

Thanks for the suggestions. I always make sure I lift heavy to the point I can't complete one more rep. Not too heavy to hurt myself or use bad form though (like many guys at my gym do, horrible form just to lift heavier).

It just gets frustrating that I work harder than everyone else and don't even get close to their results (in terms of muscle mass not strength) because my current hormone levels are limiting. This obviously gives me dysphoria. With T, I'd be twice my size by now, or at least bigger than how I am now. It just makes me frustrated. So as I said while gym helps me get rid of anger, anxiety etc. and relaxes me, it can also make me dysphoric because it reminds me of my limits and what I could do with the right hormone in my body instead.

The fact the wrong hormone is dominant in my current situation creates a lot of dysphoria and pain. It's like my body is fighting against my mind all the time, not caring. It's like running towards a hurricane. It's an overwhelming struggle and I hope to put an end to this as soon as possible by getting the right hormone for me.

When dysphoria hit me I usually go for a walk bring along my camera, or jump on to light rail take a long ride with camera on hand.

Luanne

Hi, Jossam,
Wanted to drop by and reply - I'm having one of "those" days.   

Quote from: jossam on March 18, 2016, 07:02:10 PM
I know testosterone is a steroid too. But one thing is to get T for transitioning, getting monitored by doctors, keeping levels at a normal male range....and a different thing is to use stuff for gym at very high doses, above normal ranges, and that's abuse. It's still a different story. I obviously think anyone should do whatever they want with their body, as long as they keep it healthy.

"Normal" is actually meaningless.
Seriously, the lower "normal" is female upper "normal." The upper male normal is 900+ (forget the units.) And it's not "adjusted by age" or anything - so a 20 year old at I think it was 250 is normal, as is a 900-year-old at 900.  (ng/ml was it?  Anyway...)
Point being, we need to find normal for US. If that's 900 for you, OK. If it's 250, OK. Over at T-Nation, you can find the article on Janae Kroc. https://www.t-nation.com/living/kroc-from-matt-to-janae   (S)he was a pro bodybuilder - and found out that she'd always had low T. I do too, so it resonates a bit; especially how I can put on mass. BTW: Finding it's more Time Under Tension than Max Weights. IE, more Body Building; you described your approach as Strength Building, actually. Just pointing it out, because I found I was doing it wrong, so a reminder we should always check ourselves...  ;-)

Quote from: jossam on March 18, 2016, 07:02:10 PM
I will be honest here. I don't think you should feel embarrassed about someone being stronger than you. There will always be someone who is stronger than us. There are many factors that contribute to strength. I don't think there is anything wrong with someone being stronger than someone else.
It's human variety.

I don't give a [censored] about anyone else in one sense: If they're stronger, faster, fitter, that's fine.  It's a motivator for me.
What I DO give a [censored] about is looking like I'm a tough target, so a predator won't ever make me a first-choice target. Knowing I can curl 80# until the cows come home is reassuring that way, and the confidence is a dissuasion. Like a porcupine's quills. (BTW, I can't curl 80 any more. :-(  C'est la vie. But I LOOK like I can, and I can curl 70 on a barbell.  :-D  So no one wants to risk it. I hope that clarifies a little? At the same time, some of it is purely ego, manly ego at that.) 
I would LOVE to look like the Victoria's Secret models, of course - pipe cleaner arms, 12% or so body fat, etc. But that clashes with my background. And while such a divorce from my past might be great, it is unrealistic, thus impossible. Not just healing from the assault, but losing the size and strength and confidence. If I'd been able to go transition at 10, say, I likely wouldn't have the problem  - I'd be perfectly passable. But since I'm not? I need a means to back up my words with (nasty) deeds should it be necessary. Sometimes trouble comes looking for you.

I'm actually back to lifting with worse form now, lighter weights, and it taxes my body less. Also foam rolling everything, and in some cases, using PVC pipe. Hurts, but...  I have pliable muscles again, sort of.  ;-)  Not fond of being made of stone. I am working on cleaning up the form; I guess I really just LOOKED strong.

Quote from: jossam on March 18, 2016, 07:02:10 PM
It just gets frustrating that I work harder than everyone else and don't even get close to their results (in terms of muscle mass not strength) because my current hormone levels are limiting. This obviously gives me dysphoria. With T, I'd be twice my size by now, or at least bigger than how I am now. It just makes me frustrated. So as I said while gym helps me get rid of anger, anxiety etc. and relaxes me, it can also make me dysphoric because it reminds me of my limits and what I could do with the right hormone in my body instead.

I understand that frustration. I think perhaps it's a mirror of what I'm talking about, as well as... 
I have broad shoulders. As in, I could get stuck if I tried to push through a 30" doorway without turning. I hated (well, love/hate relationship) that I was that big. That my arms or body would get caught on things as I turned, or walked down a hallway, or such. My mind thought I was smaller than that, you know what I mean? It sounds like you have the opposite problem... You feel you should be touching the sides of the hallway, almost. Very male.  ;-)
Which reminds me of another similar feeling, where I shrink or make myself appear smaller. That's a feminine thing... To turn the hips, to turn the torso, put everything in the same line to be visually smaller --> less threatening.  Whereas men take up space, square off?

Quote from: jossam on March 18, 2016, 07:02:10 PM
The fact the wrong hormone is dominant in my current situation creates a lot of dysphoria and pain. It's like my body is fighting against my mind all the time, not caring. It's like running towards a hurricane. It's an overwhelming struggle and I hope to put an end to this as soon as possible by getting the right hormone for me.

Yes, I get it. And the sad thing is, no one outside CAN get it. Like someone who is not depressed, they merely think, "Cheer up, dammit!" "Life isn't that bad, everyone has bad days!"
Yeah - After 40 years of bad days, I'd like to correct the problem. If you go poking around on Violent Acres, you can read about her messed-up life....  The one line that stuck with me, is now part of me: From her Grandmother: "Maybe you're depressed because your life sucks." IE, it's not "chemical", you don't need pills or even a shrink - you need to fix your life! Then the wounds heal.

If you want to experiment a little, try dropping the weight a little to make it easier - say, 10%, maybe less - and change the rhythm. Instead of crisp, clean movements, concentric stays fast (say, a 1), then squeeze the muscle for a count of 1, and then the eccentric goes to 4 or more, especially towards the end. (Caveat, I don't know your program, of course!  ;-)  )
So, instead of a 90% 1RM, more like an 80% or less 1RM; and then, instead of a 101 timings, it's 114. (Concentric-squeeze - eccentric.)  I've been doing similar on and off....  Hurts like a [censored], but keeps the flexibility, and gets into the assisting muscles. Do sets of 10, reduce the number of sets if necessary, and build back up...  Volume over effort builds bigger, I understand. (German Volume Training, for example, or "Squat every day."  You could leverage the Squat routine by squatting and deadlifting every day; I'm not back to that yet. Do the volume/stretch about once a week; otherwise it'll tear you up, at least at my age. If you're say 18, 19? Less of an issue. Adjust to meet your abilities, of course. But as an example, I was doing 4 sets of 10 using 75# dumbbells for Shoulder Press. Most of the guys on the floor are using 30# or less...  It's a good feeling.  :-D  But I don't do it daily, or even often. After all, I want to get SMALLER...  ;-)  )


Keep posting back, tell us how it's going!

-Dianna

Lately when I feel this awful I just try to sleep. At least I don't dream or think about it then.

Either that or focus on something that gives results. Bit of lifting, dieting, etc. It's progressing a bit slow for my taste, as always...

I like to exercise hard enough that I forget the things I hate about my body (breasts) and just focus on making it work.
Going on walks or colouring as a form of meditation can help me too.
I am a stay home parent to a 6 year old and 4 year old so I have to force myself to function no matter how bad it is. Laughing with my kids is also good therapy.

Sent from my SM-G870W using Tapatalk

Guys, it seems like nothing's working for me, not even being super busy with college stuff, and not even hobbies, since I'm just slowly dying inside and losing interest in everything.

That's the point where I went to a therapist and demanded an HRT letter to start my transition. That was the point where the fear of transition was no longer relevant for me.

I would do that immediately if I was out to my parents and whole family. But I still live with them and things can't change right now. This obviously increases depressive feelings.

I am seeing a therapist to help me cope with depression. Not a gender therapist though because there aren't any in my area.

Jossam,
I'd suggest you look for an online therapist. You'd have to pay out of pocket to keep it private, but something>nothing, right?
Dianna

Quote from: steyraug96 on April 11, 2016, 03:37:03 PM
Jossam,
I'd suggest you look for an online therapist. You'd have to pay out of pocket to keep it private, but something>nothing, right?
Dianna

I already have two therapists in real life, I can't really pay more than I already do and I don't even have financial independence from my parents. When I move to other parts of the country, near or in a big city, then I can directly start transition.
I will soon talk about my transsexualism with my therapists. If I can't transition yet, at least they can help me deal with other trans-related issues like depression, negative thoughts coming from society, etc. I'm stuck in this spiral of negative thoughts now, I need to get more relaxed, in general.