So, I gained the courage to use the male restroom for the first time today. I'm pre-T, however I look very androgynous - or even more male than female in my face. I think what would give me away is either my voice, height or body shape.

While walking into the male restroom an old man yelled "Hey! Girl, that's the mens restroom!". I don't think he was trying to be rude, I think he just genuinely thought I was accidentally walking into the wrong restroom. Still, it hurt my confidence a lot to know I don't pass to completely everyone even though I do to some. I just ignored him and walked in, used the restroom and walked out. Nobody else gave me weird looks in there. I'm now scared to go again though. Anyone else had a similar experience that didn't repeat itself? I'm scared it'll happen every time I go in there.

I think it's fair to say that an androgynous look will screw with some people's mind. If you have some features that might tip you one way or the other they will read you that way. But if you fear this happening again and want to avoid it you might want to consider some slightly more masculine touches to your appearance, at least until you get on T. On the other hand, eh, sounds like you didn't bother anyone anyway.

How old was he? My impression is that a specific group of middle-aged men have immense issues adapting to new dress styles that to them break the boundaries of typical masculine (read Rambo) presentations. Any degree of femininity such as long hair will make them wonder if it's a boy or a girl. The best way is to act confident; if you start with T but retain your current style people will continue to question you. That's just how it is. I pass 100% with very few exceptions and those exceptions always include the kind of men I just mentioned because they don't get my style.

To clarify: acting confident as if you belong there will cement the idea in these people's heads that you are a guy because a woman wouldn't want to enter the men's restroom. Confidence is something that's retained in body language and if you appear insecure and you look like you don't always pass then people WILL question you.

You were confident enough to still go in and do your business. Why are you afraid? Once in no one said anything to you just the one guy who thought he was helping out and after you continued in he probably just thought "these youngins can never tell who's who. All of them with their long hair whatever a nay nay is" of course I'm being EXTREMELY comical stereotypical of old people and their views on young but he probably did think he was wrong and just called a boy a girl.
I'm kind of confused as to why you are afraid to try it again when your first time actually using it didn't go bad. No one harassed you or anything and the old guy didn't charge in after you

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Quote from: Ms Grace on April 11, 2016, 06:00:07 AM
I think it's fair to say that an androgynous look will screw with some people's mind. If you have some features that might tip you one way or the other they will read you that way. But if you fear this happening again and want to avoid it you might want to consider some slightly more masculine touches to your appearance, at least until you get on T. On the other hand, eh, sounds like you didn't bother anyone anyway.

But I've noticed a lot of people don't see me as female either, I get called sir etc a lot. So I don't really know where to go. I'm going on T very soon, within a week hopefully, so it shouldn't be an issue for much longer

Quote from: Ephemeral on April 11, 2016, 07:04:12 AM
How old was he? My impression is that a specific group of middle-aged men have immense issues adapting to new dress styles that to them break the boundaries of typical masculine (read Rambo) presentations. Any degree of femininity such as long hair will make them wonder if it's a boy or a girl. The best way is to act confident; if you start with T but retain your current style people will continue to question you. That's just how it is. I pass 100% with very few exceptions and those exceptions always include the kind of men I just mentioned because they don't get my style.

He was old. At least 70. So I guess you're right on that part. I had nothing really feminine going for me though in terms of style. I did act confident I guess as I barged in ignoring him.

Quote from: haeden on April 11, 2016, 07:12:16 AM
You were confident enough to still go in and do your business. Why are you afraid? Once in no one said anything to you just the one guy who thought he was helping out and after you continued in he probably just thought "these youngins can never tell who's who. All of them with their long hair whatever a nay nay is" of course I'm being EXTREMELY comical stereotypical of old people and their views on young but he probably did think he was wrong and just called a boy a girl.
I'm kind of confused as to why you are afraid to try it again when your first time actually using it didn't go bad. No one harassed you or anything and the old guy didn't charge in after you

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He did come in afterwards but I was already in the stall and when I got out he was already gone. He said to someone wasn't that a girl and I didn't really hear what the guy responded. It was just my first time going in and it took a lot of confidence and cheering from my friends and it was a big slap to actually be somewhat called out on it. It'll be hard to build up the confidence again afterwards.

Quote from: Moneyless on April 11, 2016, 08:16:36 AM
He did come in afterwards but I was already in the stall and when I got out he was already gone. He said to someone wasn't that a girl and I didn't really hear what the guy responded. It was just my first time going in and it took a lot of confidence and cheering from my friends and it was a big slap to actually be somewhat called out on it. It'll be hard to build up the confidence again afterwards.

Hmm I understand now but I think if you just focus on how no one else questioned it or cared since they did talk about it briefly but clearly didn't care enough to stay long enough to find out if you actually were a girl. Then you can rebuild that confidence. I think it was very brave of you to continue to go into the bathroom after being called out. I would have chickened out and been like "oh gosh thanks I so didn't see that!".
You have a ton of confidence imo

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Wear headphones. Especially ones that contrast with whatever you're wearing. I wear a lot of black, so the Apple ear buds work well. You don't even have to listen to anything. It just stops people from bothering you.

You did well and handled it appropriately.  Restrooms should be coed unisex with private stalls and common area.  There is absolutely no need for further separation.  Continue using the men's restroom for now and look forward to the time when the barriers will be eliminated.

You could have responded with the comment, "I know, I belong there."

Quote from: Moneyless on April 11, 2016, 05:50:30 AM
So, I gained the courage to use the male restroom for the first time today. I'm pre-T, however I look very androgynous - or even more male than female in my face. I think what would give me away is either my voice, height or body shape.

While walking into the male restroom an old man yelled "Hey! Girl, that's the mens restroom!". I don't think he was trying to be rude, I think he just genuinely thought I was accidentally walking into the wrong restroom. Still, it hurt my confidence a lot to know I don't pass to completely everyone even though I do to some. I just ignored him and walked in, used the restroom and walked out. Nobody else gave me weird looks in there. I'm now scared to go again though. Anyone else had a similar experience that didn't repeat itself? I'm scared it'll happen every time I go in there.

I wouldn't be too bothered by it if I were you. I've been passing pretty consistently for almost a year now without being on T, and I've noticed that it's always the older people who write me off as female. With people my age, it can even take people trying to convince them before they get confused and ask me. I guess it has to do with it being okay for a guy to be more feminine now than back when the older generations were growing up. That being said, there's also a lot of older people who don't write me off as female, so it depends specifically on the person.
One funny thing that happened (months before I came out to anyone) was that I actually got yelled at for being in the women's bathroom.

Either way, as someone already said, act confident and don't hang around. Definitely don't make eye contact. If you walk in looking unsure, you'll be more easily noticed because you'll probably look suspicious. In the case that someone does tell you you're in the wrong bathroom, ignoring them is your best bet. If that's not an option, just say you're a guy. I know an AFAB trans (not ftm) person who does the same thing even when people outright accuse him of being a girl. Obviously though, if you'd be in any danger, do what you can to avoid it, even if that means saying "Oops, I must've walked into the wrong one by accident" and retreating.

Quote from: Ephemeral on April 11, 2016, 07:06:43 AM
To clarify: acting confident as if you belong there will cement the idea in these people's heads that you are a guy because a woman wouldn't want to enter the men's restroom. Confidence is something that's retained in body language and if you appear insecure and you look like you don't always pass then people WILL question you.

This is very true. Not to mention that cis women will used men's bathrooms sometimes. (Ballparks, convention centers, workplaces). They walk in there like they own the place.

Confidence is key. People are like bees - they'll go nuts trying to protect the hive, but once you're in, you're fine.

Used the male restroom few times last night (with the help of some alcohol)

No problems

Quote from: Moneyless on April 14, 2016, 06:26:23 PM
Used the male restroom few times last night (with the help of some alcohol)

No problems

That doesn't change the way others see you but only serves to remove your doubts and concerns. You passed.

Bathrooms can certainly be scary when you're starting out. My first time was at the start of a week long trip I went on. I decided if I could go full-time during that trip and it worked out, then I'd stay full time. So I was at a bus-station and had to pee... Well, presenting completely female I kinda had no choice but to use the women's restroom, lol. And of course, first time in there.... EMPTY. Then after that I was with my best friend and her sister, so wasn't nervous. But I ended up in a crowded mall bathroom at one point and that was a bit nerve-wracking. But I think it all gave me enough confidence after that, that it helped every subsequent time. After that, only thing I was paranoid about was standing up in a stall and someone seeing 'it' through the gaps in the door. I really think, the best thing you can do is just be confident and go in there knowing you're supposed to be in there.

The funny thing now is I couldn't go back if I wanted. I was going to try going into the men's room once to see what would happen but got too nervous to do it!

If it's a very public place with a lot of people around I'll use the disabled room-toilets if they have them - even if there's tons of people about the chances a disabled person being around at that exact time & wanting to use the bathroom is always practically non-existent, and I'm typically very quick using them. I do this at this point because like you I appear ambiguous gender to some and would prefer not to get yelled at by people trying to be helpful or otherwise. Nobody will likely question you doing that as they'd have no idea what potential "disability" you might have. When there's few people around, I'll use the men's.

Honestly, I just wish they did away with gendered toilets in this world and had facilities like they do for disabled people - toilets for people, not genders. The way the whole American bathroom bill saga/fiasco is going only makes me think there's nothing to actually be gained from having gendered communal rooms. (Apart from companies wanting to save money, as ever).

I thought I may leap in with a comment that I tell the girls, but it is highly relevant to men.

You own your space.

Think about it.

No cisman would back down in those circumstances and no ciswoman would in the opposite situation.

Why?

Because they belong and know it.

But as trans men and trans women we have to own those spaces as well. Does that mean confidence or does that mean personal acceptance?

This may sound totally dumb.

I'm a woman, I own female areas because I'm female.

You are men and own male space.

Without that attitude you or I will not be seen as belonging in that space.

Look at it in a differently with the so called bathroom laws.

Am I comfortable going to the bathroom with a man who has a vagina? Say Buck Angel? Are men comfortable going to a bathroom with say Caitlyn who may or may not have had bottom surgery?

Probably not.

So what does that mean?

Men go to the male bathroom and women go to the female bathroom. What equipment we have is utterly irrelevant.

first of all, let me congratulate you on getting the confidence to go to the restroom you want. and forget about the incident, there's something about old man and young folks style, they're not going well together. lol.
you should try again. if you say it hurts your confidence, try lots of empty bathrooms till you feel confidence to go at it again on a crowded day.

i haven't got my prosthetics yet due to the company staff stealing its products and selling out instead of shipping to us, customers. so i had to wait like 2 months for it to come. it'll come in next week.
once i started going to male restrooms, there's no going back. and i passed all the time pre-T. now i'm almost 3 months on T, it's getting easier and easier.
when i haven't started going to male restrooms, and i was pre-T, one time some old ladies call security because they think i was a young man trying to sneak in the ladies room. lol. after that, i was a bit scared but i was like urgh i don't want it to happen again, so i needed to mutter the courage to go to the male restroom and it was never empty, which was nerve-wracking at first.

one time though at a bar, i went to the restroom to find out that 2 stalls were taken and i was like need to go badlyyy. lol. so i waited for the guy in the smaller stall coming out and i jumped in quickly to figure out the stall door couldn't close. it's just flapping wide open. z. so i face the wall, sit down and do my business as quick as i can. though the beer didn't help with the process much. lol. my ass was all out. lol.
when the 2 guys in the big stall coming out, they were like (not allowed) and i was like urgh. then the room quickly fill with dudes. i just strictly got it over with and be done with it. it didn't hurt my confidence but it scared me a lot going to bar restrooms. after awhile going to empty restrooms, and crowded restrooms, i just tell myself (not allowed) this, i can do this :} hopefully it'll get much better once i get my prosthetics.


Mod Edit- No foul language please TOS 11.

Men scare me. About half of them still gender me male when even I don't see it anymore. I assumed that for those on the other side of the fence, it would have been the women that were the problem. I guess it's just men all around though.

I wouldn't worry about it. If you gotta pee, you gotta pee. Walk in there with confidence and you'll be fine. It's when you don't have confidence that it draws attention to you.

QuoteRestrooms should be coed unisex with private stalls and common area.  There is absolutely no need for further separation.

Totally agree!!!! Some cis people agree too. Change might come soon, we need to keep fighting!

Anyway OP, good job, you handled the situation very well, congratulations for being brave and confident.