This morning, on my way to the doctors office for my estrogen shots, i had this creepy encounter.

I'm at this intersection waiting to cross the street. There are about five or six other people around me at the time, one of whom is this man, who appeared to be around his 50s or so, presumably-homeless, and dressed in scraggly clothing who was smoking a cigarette, standing right next to me! I'm waving my hand over the side of my face, trying to keep the smoke away from my face because i don't smoke.

As i do that, the man is staring at me; i look at him a couple of times, at which point i notice he is staring at me. Right when it come time to cross the street, this man's exact words to me are "why are you trying to be a female?" I start getting nervous and scared when he says that repeatedly to me. I just ignore him. I pick up the pace so i can get away from him fast. As I am, he continues to call after me, repeating the question, "why are you trying to be a female? Huh?" He says it louder and louder the farther away i am from him. He also repeatedly says things like "you get a sex change?", and then even repeats "[he/she] got a sex change!" several times! In a teasing manner, as a third grader would in school!  I continue to ignore the idiot and keep it moving. Honestly, i don't think he said "she"; i think he referred to me as "he" and i was clearly presenting as a female. I wish he would've at least said "she" because i am a trans girl after all.

During my walk to the clinic I kept looking back periodically to see if he would try and follow and stalk me. Luckily, i lost him before I got to the next block.

It's so frustrating to have to experience such rudeness because i put quite a bit of work into my transition, and for him to call me out like that, clock me in the first place, and then blow my cover like that? I'm still upset right now.

I had on my black hoodie, tight shirts, stretch pencil skirt, blue tights, and black flats. I had all that on because it feels so right and so feminine to wear those things, which is why i love the skirt-tights-flats combo. But when i wear that and get clocked, i don't feel so feminine anymore. I feel ugly! Like I'm an ugly girl!

I'm thinking maybe he looked at me thinking I was attractive, but then noticed I was trans as he took a closer look at me, got upset, and then started acting crazy. I'll never know, but i'm glad that that weird encounter didn't end with me being seriously hurt or killed. For all I knew he could've had intentions to hurt me in some way, and probably would have if we were in some secluded area of sorts.

Lastly, while i'm glad i didn't bother saying anything back to that idiot because then i would've made him look about as crazy if not even crazier than he probably already is. If I would've responded to him, people within his proximity would've probably realized "oh, yeah, he must be talking about her." But I wish I would have at least told him to "screw off" just to spite him and then keep it moving.

Just wanted to get that off my chest because I love this site.

Annaiyah

I've found people with a mental illness to often be amazingly perceptive. Most people don't believe them, though.

Quote from: Dee Marshall on April 14, 2016, 07:23:29 PM
I've found people with a mental illness to often be amazingly perceptive. Most people don't believe them, though.

I would agree with this. He may have been motivated primarily by curiosity... most cis people really don't understand why anyone would want to change genders.
Regardless of his motives, I'm sorry that you had such an unpleasant experience but also relieved it didn't turn violent.

Sent from my SM-G870W using Tapatalk

Sorry for you having this experience. Very scary! It is so strange the line between getting clocked and not. This past weekend, I left work in guy clothes. I stopped in a restaurant and started going into the men's room. Some guy goes, "Wooo... that's the men''s room!" Two days later, I am dressed as my female self, again in a restaurant, and the waiter goes from calling me "Ma'am" to "Sir" in about two minutes. He then goes on to apologize, saying we get some of "those" people who you can' t tell what they are. Not wanting my food messed with, I left him a note saying that I was one of "those" people and that he made me feel bad with what he said. I expressed that I hoped he would be nicer next time as people like me deserve respect.
Glad you are safe! Stay strong, it sounds like you really are.
Moni

Been clocked a million times. Doesn't faze me.

Gennee, did it take long to get to that point?
Moni

In my experience people who are marginalized by society are incredibly discerning. I think this is because they feel their survival depends on assessing everyone they encounter to see if there is a threat. Where the average person you encounter won't even look, a homeless person will analyze every little nuance. If you were in a part of town frequented by trans sex workers, your new "friend" would likely be very acquainted with all the little characteristics that require surgical intervention to "correct." Getting clocked occasionally is a fact of life for most of us. As long as it doesn't happen within our usual social circles there should be no problem.

OP, I think you did the right thing in walking on...

The truth is, that most confrontations should be avoided if at all possible, because no one ever really wins, but in that situation, even more so, as someone who is already down and out has very little to lose, so really the only one with anything significant to lose is you. Better that you saved yourself for bigger and better things! ;-)

Of course, my wit is a bit deadpan and I'm not shy of a confrontation, so the immediate retort that came to my mind, was:
"why are you trying to be anything?" (helps if you can accompany with a see-through stare). Depending on the aggressor feel free to substitute some thing else:

Female aggressor: "Why are you pretending to be a woman?"
You: "Why are YOU pretending to be a woman?" (you're not really doubting her womanhood, just her humanity which makes her non-woman...but that's not what she'll hear)

I don't truly recommend any of those. Just rise above it. But's it fun to pretend (to retort!).

x

I realise some of this post is sexist, but we live in a sexist society.

What would a cisgender woman have done?

Probably lower and pull her shoulders together, lower her head so as to indicate she does not want to have communication and walk away (Ok you where stuck at a crossing). The body language says I am being harassed. Other women see this and other men do as well and realise that you are being harassed, in my experience this then makes other women move closer to you, which is the normal herd reaction. And men create space around them, again a subconscious herd reaction.

Being aggressive, which you were not, attracts attention and the herd moves away allowing you to deal with it.

Just a thought.

Quote from: Cindy on April 15, 2016, 02:54:45 AM
I realise some of this post is sexist, but we live in a sexist society.

What would a cisgender woman have done?

Probably lower and pull her shoulders together, lower her head so as to indicate she does not want to have communication and walk away (Ok you where stuck at a crossing). The body language says I am being harassed. Other women see this and other men do as well and realise that you are being harassed, in my experience this then makes other women move closer to you, which is the normal herd reaction. And men create space around them, again a subconscious herd reaction.

Being aggressive, which you were not, attracts attention and the herd moves away allowing you to deal with it.

Just a thought.

I think this is a good thought and good observation.

However, I've been thinking about this and perhaps there's slightly more to the dynamic to consider.

If the herd perceives the aggressor and the victim to be of the same gender, do those dynamics still apply? My instinct says they don't. Moreover, when a female is victimising another female, or a male is victimising another male, for no other reason than they can, that's pretty much bullying behaviour. I don't know about you, but I've never seen a bully stop and think "Oh, look, I'm clearly the dominant one as they are cowering, I think I'll stop now...". Quite the opposite. A successful bully, tends to keep at it, so I think in that situation you have to be especially sensitive to the surrounding dynamics and judge whether the herd is going to do it's part for you, as not everyone will perceive you in the same way...

Anyway, just another thought.

In general, "what would a cis-gender woman do?" seems like a good way to proceed if in doubt in most situations...(or "what would a cis-man do?" depending on the gender of the person reading this! ;-) )

x

Quote from: Orielle on April 15, 2016, 03:35:31 AM

Quote from: Cindy on April 15, 2016, 02:54:45 AM
I realise some of this post is sexist, but we live in a sexist society.

What would a cisgender woman have done?

Probably lower and pull her shoulders together, lower her head so as to indicate she does not want to have communication and walk away (Ok you where stuck at a crossing). The body language says I am being harassed. Other women see this and other men do as well and realise that you are being harassed, in my experience this then makes other women move closer to you, which is the normal herd reaction. And men create space around them, again a subconscious herd reaction.

Being aggressive, which you were not, attracts attention and the herd moves away allowing you to deal with it.

Just a thought.

I think this is a good thought and good observation.

However, I've been thinking about this and perhaps there's slightly more to the dynamic to consider.

If the herd perceives the aggressor and the victim to be of the same gender, do those dynamics still apply? My instinct says they don't. Moreover, when a female is victimising another female, or a male is victimising another male, for no other reason than they can, that's pretty much bullying behaviour. I don't know about you, but I've never seen a bully stop and think "Oh, look, I'm clearly the dominant one as they are cowering, I think I'll stop now...". Quite the opposite. A successful bully, tends to keep at it, so I think in that situation you have to be especially sensitive to the surrounding dynamics and judge whether the herd is going to do it's part for you, as not everyone will perceive you in the same way...

Anyway, just another thought.

In general, "what would a cis-gender woman do?" seems like a good way to proceed if in doubt in most situations...(or "what would a cis-man do?" depending on the gender of the person reading this! ;-) )

x

I understand your point, but you may nave missed mine. Being accepted as female (or male) has a lot to do with mannerisms and body language.

By knowing the body language of your gender allows you to be accepted. (not sure if 'allowed' is the right adjective but take my drift).

So by being seen and accepted as female creates the herd instinct. And we all have experienced that post transition. You, we, are part of the sisterhood; why? because we are accepted as female by our
body language.

I don't know, I was throwing out thoughts about how I would deal with a horrible event.

Quote from: Cindy on April 15, 2016, 04:00:56 AM
I think this is a good thought and good observation.

However, I've been thinking about this and perhaps there's slightly more to the dynamic to consider.

If the herd perceives the aggressor and the victim to be of the same gender, do those dynamics still apply? My instinct says they don't. Moreover, when a female is victimising another female, or a male is victimising another male, for no other reason than they can, that's pretty much bullying behaviour. I don't know about you, but I've never seen a bully stop and think "Oh, look, I'm clearly the dominant one as they are cowering, I think I'll stop now...". Quite the opposite. A successful bully, tends to keep at it, so I think in that situation you have to be especially sensitive to the surrounding dynamics and judge whether the herd is going to do it's part for you, as not everyone will perceive you in the same way...

Anyway, just another thought.

In general, "what would a cis-gender woman do?" seems like a good way to proceed if in doubt in most situations...(or "what would a cis-man do?" depending on the gender of the person reading this! ;-) )

x


I understand your point, but you may nave missed mine. Being accepted as female (or male) has a lot to do with mannerisms and body language.

By knowing the body language of your gender allows you to be accepted. (not sure if 'allowed' is the right adjective but take my drift).

So by being seen and accepted as female creates the herd instinct. And we all have experienced that post transition. You, we, are part of the sisterhood; why? because we are accepted as female by our
body language.

I don't know, I was throwing out thoughts about how I would deal with a horrible event.

Sorry, didn't mean to gloss over that. No, I absolutely got your point, but we're not dealing with absolutes here, perception is both key to the point you're making and the point I'm making and as you and I can't know exactly how other people perceive us, your point comes with a large amount of faith in the behaviour of others...

So, while I don't disagree with the point you're making at all, I would argue that the point assumes an amount of faith in the predictability of others and if there's anything I've learnt over the years, it's that the only persons actions I can guarantee are my own. I wouldn't want to make a suggestion that could put someone in a vulnerable position so relying on something as unpredictable as the perceptions of others isn't something I can wholeheartedly get behind...but then I would say my faith in the herd isn't exactly one of my strong points! (bit of a loner over here!) ;-)

Apologies for the less than elegant wording above...unfortunately, I must be brief as I've got to go catch a train. Going to a wedding!

x

No probs.

Have a lovely wedding! And catch the bouquet !

"what would a cis woman do"

This happened to a cis friend of mine, while queuing for the loo . She opened her jacket and said, whilst laughing, at him "what are these then"

That has been my response. I laugh in a scoffing manner and walk away. If you laugh it shows that you're unaffected by the ridiculous suggestion, plus as is often said we all look better with a smile.

You can curse later.

Quote from: Cindy on April 15, 2016, 04:33:20 AM
No probs.

Have a lovely wedding! And catch the bouquet !

Thank you Cindy! I will (it's my cousin's)...though boy mode, so yuck! Ok, must stop now...left home without my charger! Doh!

x

In my opinion? He wanted to cat-call you, but as soon as he clocked you he felt threatened. You're right: this situation could've turned very ugly, and I commend you for doing the sensible thing and just walking away. As Cindy asks:

Quote from: Cindy on April 15, 2016, 02:54:45 AM
What would a cisgender woman have done?

That is exactly what most cisgender women would've done. Because being raised in a female role can actually be pretty scary. Most cisgender men don't even realise the internalised fear that comes with it, and it can come as a shock to some trans women when they first encounter it. We were taught that any strange man is potentially an attacker, and it's drummed into us from a very early age that all men are after only one thing and that some will stop at nothing to take it from you.

We're taught that if you lack physical strength, then any attempt to backchat or physically resist an aggressive man will probably result in escalating the situation to the point where the guy will become physically (or sexually) violent, and at that stage we're unlikely be able to defend ourselves properly. We're taught that the safest thing to do when confronted by an aggressive man is to be somewhat meek and submissive, hoping that not reacting to him will make him just go away. It's hard to ignore an aggressor when you're terrified that they might attack you, but we're told to be nice, to smile politely, and to just get the heck out of there as quickly as we can. If you look around at how cis women respond to street harassment, you'll notice this behaviour from the majority of them.

So Cindy is 100% correct in this. And the OP responded very appropriately, IMO - especially considering this happened in the street where there was probably nobody around to help if things took a turn for the worse. It's one thing to have a snappy comeback in a busy queue for the loo (with plenty of potential allies around), but it's an entirely different thing to retaliate on a street corner where nobody will come to your aid. Most cis women would notice that the guy appears to be mentally unstable and this would make them extra-cautious: can you predict how the situation would've gone down if you'd retaliated? Would other people have helped you, or would some of them have agreed with him and attacked you too? It's possible... but instead of escalating the situation, you walked away with your head held high, and he became the crazy guy shouting random crazy things that you didn't dignify with a response. Well done.

BTW: being female, or even being feminine, absolutely does not have to be about being 'pretty'. There is a lot more to being a woman than one's appearance. I daresay you're not actually 'ugly', but if being clocked makes you feel like an 'ugly' girl, please try to remind yourself that there are millions of naturally 'ugly' cis (and trans!) women out there, quietly living their lives as 100% valid women... and neither their appearance nor their ability to pass makes them any less valid than the stereotypically 'pretty' types. You know who you are, and some random idiot's uninvited opinion of you does not change that in the slightest.

Quote from: arice on April 14, 2016, 07:33:32 PM
I would agree with this. He may have been motivated primarily by curiosity... most cis people really don't understand why anyone would want to change genders.
Regardless of his motives, I'm sorry that you had such an unpleasant experience but also relieved it didn't turn violent.

That could be a factor. But mind you, mind you some (I don't want to say all) cis people are ignorant. Period. They haven't any clue of what us trans people go through because they're not us, which is probably why they think they have the right to judge us based on the misconceptions they have about us trans people.

Quote from: HappyMoni on April 14, 2016, 08:26:08 PM
Sorry for you having this experience. Very scary! It is so strange the line between getting clocked and not. This past weekend, I left work in guy clothes. I stopped in a restaurant and started going into the men's room. Some guy goes, "Wooo... that's the men''s room!" Two days later, I am dressed as my female self, again in a restaurant, and the waiter goes from calling me "Ma'am" to "Sir" in about two minutes. He then goes on to apologize, saying we get some of "those" people who you can' t tell what they are. Not wanting my food messed with, I left him a note saying that I was one of "those" people and that he made me feel bad with what he said. I expressed that I hoped he would be nicer next time as people like me deserve respect.
Glad you are safe! Stay strong, it sounds like you really are.
Moni

Was it the same man from both instances? That was quite rude and I'm glad you handled that situation the way you did. Some people need to be put in their place.

Quote from: gennee on April 14, 2016, 08:31:46 PM
Been clocked a million times. Doesn't faze me.

If it doesn't bother you, more power to you but I would've thought that the whole idea of going through a gender transition is to be seen, recognized, treated, respected, and accepted as your desired gender. I would've also thought that would be very hard to accomplish if you're constantly getting clocked.

How do you handle use of a public restroom if you need to?

Quote from: Orielle on April 15, 2016, 02:38:19 AM
OP, I think you did the right thing in walking on...

The truth is, that most confrontations should be avoided if at all possible, because no one ever really wins, but in that situation, even more so, as someone who is already down and out has very little to lose, so really the only one with anything significant to lose is you. Better that you saved yourself for bigger and better things! ;-)

Of course, my wit is a bit deadpan and I'm not shy of a confrontation, so the immediate retort that came to my mind, was:
"why are you trying to be anything?" (helps if you can accompany with a see-through stare). Depending on the aggressor feel free to substitute some thing else:

Female aggressor: "Why are you pretending to be a woman?"
You: "Why are YOU pretending to be a woman?" (you're not really doubting her womanhood, just her humanity which makes her non-woman...but that's not what she'll hear)

I don't truly recommend any of those. Just rise above it. But's it fun to pretend (to retort!).

x

I am also somewhat happy with how I handled the situation but I wish I would have said at least this:

MAN: Why you tryin' to be a female?
ME: Probably because I actually am a female. May I ask why you're trying to be an ugly, old, rotten piece of crap? Oh, wait! That's right! You're not pretending at all; you actually are. Have a nice day.

And then keep walking without saying anything else after that.

Quote from: Cindy on April 15, 2016, 02:54:45 AM
I realise some of this post is sexist, but we live in a sexist society.

What would a cisgender woman have done?

Probably lower and pull her shoulders together, lower her head so as to indicate she does not want to have communication and walk away (Ok you where stuck at a crossing). The body language says I am being harassed. Other women see this and other men do as well and realise that you are being harassed, in my experience this then makes other women move closer to you, which is the normal herd reaction. And men create space around them, again a subconscious herd reaction.

Being aggressive, which you were not, attracts attention and the herd moves away allowing you to deal with it.

Just a thought.

What about the post was sexist?

Your prediction of what a cis woman would have handled that situation, I think, is quite spot-on. I like your response because I try to carry myself as a cis woman as much as possible and would like to live a stealth life. Also, I agree also because that man clearly had mental problems so anything he had to say about someone probably was invalid and anyone in their right mind would think the same thing.

The only reason I didn't respond back to him is because I was nervous and scared but looking back at it a day later, I think you're also right in believing that responding back to him would've attracted even more unwanted attention... to him and to me. By letting him talk to himself and not respond back to him, the one on the receiving end of all the attention is him, assuming any passerby were giving him any in the first place. Plus I was quick to get away from him because it was very possible he could've had a gun or a knife, or if neither of those articles, some intention to harm me.

Quote from: sandrauk on April 15, 2016, 04:46:03 AM
"what would a cis woman do"

This happened to a cis friend of mine, while queuing for the loo . She opened her jacket and said, whilst laughing, at him "what are these then"

That has been my response. I laugh in a scoffing manner and walk away. If you laugh it shows that you're unaffected by the ridiculous suggestion, plus as is often said we all look better with a smile.

You can curse later.

So funny!

Quote from: FTMDiaries on April 15, 2016, 07:12:41 AM
In my opinion? He wanted to cat-call you, but as soon as he clocked you he felt threatened. You're right: this situation could've turned very ugly, and I commend you for doing the sensible thing and just walking away. As Cindy asks:

That is exactly what most cisgender women would've done. Because being raised in a female role can actually be pretty scary. Most cisgender men don't even realise the internalised fear that comes with it, and it can come as a shock to some trans women when they first encounter it. We were taught that any strange man is potentially an attacker, and it's drummed into us from a very early age that all men are after only one thing and that some will stop at nothing to take it from you.

We're taught that if you lack physical strength, then any attempt to backchat or physically resist an aggressive man will probably result in escalating the situation to the point where the guy will become physically (or sexually) violent, and at that stage we're unlikely be able to defend ourselves properly. We're taught that the safest thing to do when confronted by an aggressive man is to be somewhat meek and submissive, hoping that not reacting to him will make him just go away. It's hard to ignore an aggressor when you're terrified that they might attack you, but we're told to be nice, to smile politely, and to just get the heck out of there as quickly as we can. If you look around at how cis women respond to street harassment, you'll notice this behaviour from the majority of them.

So Cindy is 100% correct in this. And the OP responded very appropriately, IMO - especially considering this happened in the street where there was probably nobody around to help if things took a turn for the worse. It's one thing to have a snappy comeback in a busy queue for the loo (with plenty of potential allies around), but it's an entirely different thing to retaliate on a street corner where nobody will come to your aid. Most cis women would notice that the guy appears to be mentally unstable and this would make them extra-cautious: can you predict how the situation would've gone down if you'd retaliated? Would other people have helped you, or would some of them have agreed with him and attacked you too? It's possible... but instead of escalating the situation, you walked away with your head held high, and he became the crazy guy shouting random crazy things that you didn't dignify with a response. Well done.

BTW: being female, or even being feminine, absolutely does not have to be about being 'pretty'. There is a lot more to being a woman than one's appearance. I daresay you're not actually 'ugly', but if being clocked makes you feel like an 'ugly' girl, please try to remind yourself that there are millions of naturally 'ugly' cis (and trans!) women out there, quietly living their lives as 100% valid women... and neither their appearance nor their ability to pass makes them any less valid than the stereotypically 'pretty' types. You know who you are, and some random idiot's uninvited opinion of you does not change that in the slightest.

Thank you, FTM Diaries.

This is why it scares me even more to think about how this situation would've played out if he and I were alone in a secluded, empty hallway, an elevator, or a place where no one else is around to help me if things turned violent.

Also mind you, that same day, I had three different men say hello to me -- one prior to and two after that incident. When I am full-timing I occasionally get random men saying hi to me. I take that to mean that not only do I pass but they think I'm pretty or attractive. Think about it for a moment and let's take "trans" out of the equation for a second: if a man sees a woman whom he finds attractive he's going to want to talk to her. No?

As I keep thinking about it, there is a possibility a man may examine me, think to himself, "she might me trans; I wonder what her voice sounds like," and want to clock me for something and then say "hi, how you doing?" waiting for a male voice to come out so he can clock me. But good thing I can sound feminine if I want to, though it's not perfect, but it is enough for me to pass.

Forgot to add:
At the time he was saying those things to me, when it came time to cross the street, he was walking with the rest of us but at a slightly slower rate. I started walking fast to get away from him because I was so nervous but I thought he would follow me.

Also, this was in the Central Philadelphia area, where I would've thought was a trans-friendly city, and where the foot and motorized traffic was kind of busy so I would've like to think that he was were crazy enough to try and do something to me, some people around me would've come to my rescue.

Perhaps he wanted to start a fight, to force you to show masculinity via aggression, thereby validating his insults. If he believed you were a man he sounds like he was taunting you as he would a man, pointedly, to try to get you to show anger and lamp him one. It sounds a bit reminiscent of some of the bar fights I've seen and how they would start.

I agree with others here, a woman alone would typically not want to escalate this situation verbally or otherwise as it would just mean prolonging a potentially nasty encounter. In my experience men like this usually verbally attack women, rarely physically, but if he was viewing you as male then I'm not sure he'd be playing those rules if you responded and might instead have just gone for all-out male-mode belligerence. If you were alone I think it'd be more likely he'd do this rather than in front of a crowd. 

Quote from: Cindy on April 15, 2016, 02:54:45 AM
I realise some of this post is sexist, but we live in a sexist society.

What would a cisgender woman have done?

Probably lower and pull her shoulders together, lower her head so as to indicate she does not want to have communication and walk away (Ok you where stuck at a crossing). The body language says I am being harassed. Other women see this and other men do as well and realise that you are being harassed, in my experience this then makes other women move closer to you, which is the normal herd reaction. And men create space around them, again a subconscious herd reaction.

Being aggressive, which you were not, attracts attention and the herd moves away allowing you to deal with it.

Just a thought.

I live in a busy east coast city such as OP and I slightly disagree with your assessment of what a cis woman would have done. Instead of lowering shoulders etc I think a cis woman would have done exactly what OP did. Most women I witness being street harassed (myself included when I was living as female) just walk away and maybe give the crazy homeless guy a long angered look. Women and people in general in NYC, Boston, Philly etc have pretty thick skin. - Just my 2c

Something like this happened to me over the holidays after I was shopping at night.  I pass very well, and it was a shock to hear someone taunting me.  I just kept walking and acted like the homeless person was taunting someone else.  It really shook me up.  I have had time to think it through now, and I think any cis women who is my height (or taller), would have been taunted by this person.  Sometimes they are just so aggressive with anyone and will say anything to get a reaction.